Newbie intro and first 2 questions. Where to learn about equalization or?

[2Sunny]

Glad I found this site as it will definitely keep me busy for awhile, and that's a good thing as it provides me with a distraction to help forget about some unfortunate medical issues . . . anywho . . .

The synopsis: Where should I go to learn about adjusting the equalizer settings on my speakers?

I have a home theater setup that I bought from Crutchfield several years ago and that I am currently upgrading. I recently purchased a new Sony A95L TV and a Sony STR-AZ3000ES receiver. As part of my upgrade process I have been watching countless online videos and started multiple threads on AVSForums.com which ultimately lead me to now think about buying new speakers, but before I do so I am now interested in adjusting what I have using EQ. The reason being that I just read a review here of Klipsch RP-600M where the conclusion stated:

Conclusions
Out of the box, the Klipsch RP-600M throws out the rule book, thinking that if you just sold boosted lows and highs and leaving mids behind is a good idea. It is not. Objective and subjective testing shows this to be a horrible choice ranking the speaker as one of the worst I have tested. Dial in some simple EQ though and the speaker transforms into a beauty. The "horn" is actually not a horn but a waveguide that is doing its job to provide uniform off-axis response allowing one to EQ the mid-range dip.

I do not have RP-600Ms, but I have heard repeatedly that audiophile's think Klipsch speakers are too "bright" and I assume this is what "bright" translates to so presumably I can try adjusting the EQ settings on my system and improve what I have.

Now I should also add that I believe strongly that how speakers sound TO ME in MY HOME is all that matters. I could give a proverbial rat's you know what about technical measurements. What I care about ultimately is am I enjoying what I have, and I will say that I most definitely enjoy what I currently have, but I am fortunate to some extent that I could spend $5 to $10k and not worry about it if I really believed I would hear a difference. Hence my coming here to try and learn if I should consider replacing my current speaker choices or just adjust them as best I can.

Anyways this post is already too long to start so I'll end here except to list what I have now:

My speakers all Klipsch

RP-280F (2) Tower
RP-500C (1) Center
RP-250S (2) Surround
RP-500SA (2) Front Height
RP-41SA (2) Rear Height
R-120SW (1) Sub

and my Home Theater:

Sony 65 inch A95L TV
Sony STR-AZ3000ES receiver
Sony UBP-X700 BluRay
Apple TV 4k/3rd gen

Also some added parameters:
For reasons of marital bliss ceiling mounted speakers are out of the question
I primarily watch popular movies and NEVER listen to music with my system.
I am NOT into booms and always have "reduce loud sounds" to ON on my Apple TV
What I enjoy is when rain falling or bullets flying sound "real" and all around.
The room is 15 x 20 x 9


I do plan on wall mounting the front heights upto the molding above the Towers. I just set them there this weekend because I was lazy. I also plan on putting the rear heights higher as well.

 

[Blake Klondike]

Glad I found this site as it will definitely keep me busy for awhile, and that's a good thing as it provides me with a distraction to help forget about some unfortunate medical issues . . . anywho . . .

The synopsis: Where should I go to learn about adjusting the equalizer settings on my speakers?

I have a home theater setup that I bought from Crutchfield several years ago and that I am currently upgrading. I recently purchased a new Sony A95L TV and a Sony STR-AZ3000ES receiver. As part of my upgrade process I have been watching countless online videos and started multiple threads on AVSForums.com which ultimately lead me to now think about buying new speakers, but before I do so I am now interested in adjusting what I have using EQ. The reason being that I just read a review here of Klipsch RP-600M where the conclusion stated:

Conclusions
Out of the box, the Klipsch RP-600M throws out the rule book, thinking that if you just sold boosted lows and highs and leaving mids behind is a good idea. It is not. Objective and subjective testing shows this to be a horrible choice ranking the speaker as one of the worst I have tested. Dial in some simple EQ though and the speaker transforms into a beauty. The "horn" is actually not a horn but a waveguide that is doing its job to provide uniform off-axis response allowing one to EQ the mid-range dip.

I do not have RP-600s, but I have heard repeatedly that audiophile's think Klipsch speakers are too "bright" and I assume this is what "bright" translates to so presumably I can try adjusting the EQ settings on my system and improve what I have.

Now I should also add that I believe strongly that how speakers sound TO ME in MY HOME is all that matters. I could give a proverbial rat's you know what about technical measurements. What I care about ultimately is am I enjoying what I have, and I will say that I most definitely enjoy what I currently have, but I am fortunate to some extent that I could spend $5 to $10k and not worry about it if I really believed I would hear a difference. Hence my coming here to try and learn if I should consider replacing my current speaker choices or just adjust them as best I can.

Anyways this post is already too long to start so I'll end here except to list what I have now:

My speakers all Klipsch

RP-280F (2) Tower
RP-500C (1) Center
RP-250S (2) Surround
RP-500SA (2) Front Height
RP-41SA (2) Rear Height
R-120SW (1) Sub
and my Home Theater:

Sony 65 inch A95L TV
Sony STR-AZ3000ES receive
Sony UBP-X700 BluRay
Apple TV 4k/3rd gen

Also some added parameters:
For reasons of marital bliss ceiling mounted speakers are out of the question
I primarily watch popular movies and NEVER listen to music with my system.
I am NOT into booms and always have "reduce loud sounds" to ON on my Apple TV
What I enjoy is when rain falling or bullets flying sound "real" and all around.

just wanted to say welcome to the group! i can't answer your questions myself but i am jealous of your system-- there will be many here who can be of great help. have fun!

 

[boxerfan88]

Initial steps:
1. Buy a measurement microphone (eg. UMIK-1) if you don’t already have it
2. Install REW software (free) to your laptop or computer.
3. Learn how to use REW (REW website have some tutorials, youtube too)
4. Take your first measurements
5. Post it here and ask for advice/next steps

Typical next steps:
6. Use REW to analyse the responses & REW can help generate the correction PEQ
7. Take the correction EQ and input into your AVR
8. Measure again and confirm the changes are correct.
9. Listening test (important step) - you must like the changes
10. If not ideal, repeat from 6, and tweak accordingly (this step can repeat many times until you get the sound you like)

 

[Count Arthur]

It seems the Sony STR-AZ3000ES has a calibration function:

Have you tried that?

 

[2Sunny]

Initial steps:
1. Buy a measurement microphone (eg. UMIK-1) if you don’t already have it
2. Install REW software (free) to your laptop or computer.
3. Learn how to use REW (REW website have some tutorials, youtube too)
4. Take your first measurements
5. Post it here and ask for advice/next steps

Typical next steps:
6. Use REW to analyse the responses & REW can help generate the correction PEQ
7. Take the correction EQ and input into your AVR
8. Measure again and confirm the changes are correct.
9. Listening test (important step) - you must like the changes
10. If not ideal, repeat from 6, and tweak accordingly (this step can repeat many times until you get the sound you like)

Gotta love Amazon. Be here tomorrow by 8AM. Thanks! Love me a new toy to play with.

 

[2Sunny]

It seems the Sony STR-AZ3000ES has a calibration function:

View attachment 435992

Have you tried that?

I have done the Auto Calibration on the Sony. In fact the main reason I bought that receiver was to try the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping tech to see if it was as good as folks claim, and with my less than ideal speaker placement the difference with 360 SSM ON versus OFF is quite noticeable. The scene in Harry Potter 2 Chamber of Secrets where the teacher releases Cornish Pixies into the room really came alive all around me with it ON.

Anyways, do you think the Auto Calibration function theoretically might have changed EQ settings?

 

[Thomas Savage]

Glad I found this site as it will definitely keep me busy for awhile, and that's a good thing as it provides me with a distraction to help forget about some unfortunate medical issues . . . anywho . . .

The synopsis: Where should I go to learn about adjusting the equalizer settings on my speakers?

I have a home theater setup that I bought from Crutchfield several years ago and that I am currently upgrading. I recently purchased a new Sony A95L TV and a Sony STR-AZ3000ES receiver. As part of my upgrade process I have been watching countless online videos and started multiple threads on AVSForums.com which ultimately lead me to now think about buying new speakers, but before I do so I am now interested in adjusting what I have using EQ. The reason being that I just read a review here of Klipsch RP-600M where the conclusion stated:

Conclusions
Out of the box, the Klipsch RP-600M throws out the rule book, thinking that if you just sold boosted lows and highs and leaving mids behind is a good idea. It is not. Objective and subjective testing shows this to be a horrible choice ranking the speaker as one of the worst I have tested. Dial in some simple EQ though and the speaker transforms into a beauty. The "horn" is actually not a horn but a waveguide that is doing its job to provide uniform off-axis response allowing one to EQ the mid-range dip.

I do not have RP-600s, but I have heard repeatedly that audiophile's think Klipsch speakers are too "bright" and I assume this is what "bright" translates to so presumably I can try adjusting the EQ settings on my system and improve what I have.

Now I should also add that I believe strongly that how speakers sound TO ME in MY HOME is all that matters. I could give a proverbial rat's you know what about technical measurements. What I care about ultimately is am I enjoying what I have, and I will say that I most definitely enjoy what I currently have, but I am fortunate to some extent that I could spend $5 to $10k and not worry about it if I really believed I would hear a difference. Hence my coming here to try and learn if I should consider replacing my current speaker choices or just adjust them as best I can.

Anyways this post is already too long to start so I'll end here except to list what I have now:

My speakers all Klipsch

RP-280F (2) Tower
RP-500C (1) Center
RP-250S (2) Surround
RP-500SA (2) Front Height
RP-41SA (2) Rear Height
R-120SW (1) Sub
and my Home Theater:

Sony 65 inch A95L TV
Sony STR-AZ3000ES receive
Sony UBP-X700 BluRay
Apple TV 4k/3rd gen

Also some added parameters:
For reasons of marital bliss ceiling mounted speakers are out of the question
I primarily watch popular movies and NEVER listen to music with my system.
I am NOT into booms and always have "reduce loud sounds" to ON on my Apple TV
What I enjoy is when rain falling or bullets flying sound "real" and all around.
The room is 15 x 20 x 9


I do plan on wall mounting the front heights upto the molding above the Towers. I just set them there this weekend because I was lazy. I also plan on putting the rear heights higher as well.


View attachment 435986

View attachment 435988

Welcome, super first post looks like a great room to enjoy music in .

 

[Count Arthur]

I have done the Auto Calibration on the Sony. In fact the main reason I bought that receiver was to try the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping tech to see if it was as good as folks claim, and with my less than ideal speaker placement the difference with 360 SSM ON versus OFF is quite noticeable. The scene in Harry Potter 2 Chamber of Secrets where the teacher releases Cornish Pixies into the room really came alive all around me with it ON.

Anyways, do you think the Auto Calibration function theoretically might have changed EQ settings?

The Auto Calibration will be a form of PEQ. I'm not exactly certain of how Sony have implemented it, but I'm guessing it plays sweeps, chirps or tones through each channel/speaker, then uses the sound recorded with the microphone to calculate and adjust the frequency response and any necessary time delays for each channel.

 

[2Sunny]

Initial steps:
1. Buy a measurement microphone (eg. UMIK-1) if you don’t already have it
2. Install REW software (free) to your laptop or computer.
3. Learn how to use REW (REW website have some tutorials, youtube too)
4. Take your first measurements
5. Post it here and ask for advice/next steps

Typical next steps:
6. Use REW to analyse the responses & REW can help generate the correction PEQ
7. Take the correction EQ and input into your AVR
8. Measure again and confirm the changes are correct.
9. Listening test (important step) - you must like the changes
10. If not ideal, repeat from 6, and tweak accordingly (this step can repeat many times until you get the sound you like)

I was just now messing around with my setup by re-installing the RP-600M II speakers I had laying around for the purpose of adjusting the mid-range. What I found was that the Equalizer function on the Sony receiver I have only allows adjusting "bass" or "treble" which are fixed. This seems like it won't work for purposes of making adjustments if I find issues using the REW software. Am I correct in that assumption? Is there something else I have not yet learned?

 

[AnalogSteph]

That's not a half-bad system as it is. Even the usual weak spot of an MTM center should be better than average since, being horny , it can be crossed quite low at 1.8 kHz. Klipsch don't seem to be making a 3-way center, do they? There's still a potential step-up available in the form of the Reference series R-50C, generally higher quality and crossed over a tad lower still at 1.65 kHz.

I would also consider using twin identical centers (maybe in the two outer compartments, displacing the decoration towards the center), it's a hack that works rather better than one might expect. (So either get another RP-500C or twice R-50Cs.) Given that impedance is listed as "8 ohms compatible" (which could mean anything), I'd play it safe and advise connecting them in series. (Not out of phase, please, but you'd probably notice that....)

Keep an ear out for any shift in (pink noise) timbre as you move up and down, it's likely to be a bit of a weak spot for the RP-280Fs, though again not as much as it could be since crossover is reasonably low at 1.8 kHz and the vertical isn't as critical in general. Trying the same exercise with dual stacked 8" woofers and a 3.5 kHz crossover would be hopeless.

It'll be interesting to see what the automagic EQ does and whether its corrections pass the sniff test. (Using MMM is advised. Test speaker by speaker.)

EDIT:

I was just now messing around with my setup by re-installing the RP-600M II speakers I had laying around for the purpose of adjusting the mid-range.

Side note, these would be good for replacing your RP-250S dipole surrounds. Those are kind of passé (e.g. only monopoles are recommended for Dolby Atmos), and if anything should be gracing the side walls as far as I'm aware.

 

[boxerfan88]

I was just now messing around with my setup by re-installing the RP-600M II speakers I had laying around for the purpose of adjusting the mid-range. What I found was that the Equalizer function on the Sony receiver I have only allows adjusting "bass" or "treble" which are fixed. This seems like it won't work for purposes of making adjustments if I find issues using the REW software. Am I correct in that assumption? Is there something else I have not yet learned?

As you say, Sony is restricted to bass/treble adjustment, no PEQ adjustment.

STR-AZ7000ES/STR-AZ5000ES/STR-AZ3000ES | Help Guide | Adjusting the equalizer (Equalizer)

What you can do is adjust the bass for the most even room response that you can reach, and still sound good to your ears. Use REW to measure the post adjustment result to confirm by how much the resulting response has shifted/improved.

As for treble, i’d suggest to leave it alone unchanged.

Use the REW/UMIK to learn how to measure and interpret the charts. This learning journey can be quite long but will add lots to your knowledge.

Finally, if and when you upgrade AVR to one that has PEQ, you can then use your knowledge gained & the full power of REW.

^PEQ = parametric EQ = where one can manually set the frequency, gain, Q-factor independently.
(I was kinda surprised to learn Sony AVR doesn’t support PEQ, my 15 year super old Yamaha AVR has PEQ banks, and can be configured via AVR web interface. I asked AI why? It said Sony focused on ease of use. I guess that may be the reason.)

 

[2Sunny]

Got the mic. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a time when my wife isn't home as taking measurements would most definitely annoy her. I can hear the comments now:

Darcie: "What the heck are you doing?"

Joe: "Measuring the frequency response of my speakers."

Darcie: "Why?"

Joe: "So I can see if there is room to improve them or if I should spend $5k buying new speakers."

Darcie: "Are you crazy?"

Joe: "Ummmmm . . . maybe."

Me now: ROFL

Instead, I have a question for those following along.

I'm considering buying Revel bookshelf speakers to try as my rear surrounds replacing my latest setup which are Klipsch RP-600M II (I swapped out the RP-250S yesterday). Good idea or silly?

Revel Performa3 M16

Just dreaming out loud but maybe I could buy all Revel if the measurements prove that my system leaves much to be desired and is not correctable. I'm dreaming about the following, but still months away before any possible real decision:

Revel F208 (2) - Towers
Revel Concerta2 C25 (2) - Dual Centers
Revel Performa3 (2) - Surround L+R
Klipsch RP-500SA (4) - front and rear heights

 

[2Sunny]

That's not a half-bad system as it is. Even the usual weak spot of an MTM center should be better than average since, being horny , it can be crossed quite low at 1.8 kHz. Klipsch don't seem to be making a 3-way center, do they? There's still a potential step-up available in the form of the Reference series R-50C, generally higher quality and crossed over a tad lower still at 1.65 kHz.

I would also consider using twin identical centers (maybe in the two outer compartments, displacing the decoration towards the center), it's a hack that works rather better than one might expect. (So either get another RP-500C or twice R-50Cs.) Given that impedance is listed as "8 ohms compatible" (which could mean anything), I'd play it safe and advise connecting them in series. (Not out of phase, please, but you'd probably notice that....)

Keep an ear out for any shift in (pink noise) timbre as you move up and down, it's likely to be a bit of a weak spot for the RP-280Fs, though again not as much as it could be since crossover is reasonably low at 1.8 kHz and the vertical isn't as critical in general. Trying the same exercise with dual stacked 8" woofers and a 3.5 kHz crossover would be hopeless.

It'll be interesting to see what the automagic EQ does and whether its corrections pass the sniff test. (Using MMM is advised. Test speaker by speaker.)

EDIT:

Side note, these would be good for replacing your RP-250S dipole surrounds. Those are kind of passé (e.g. only monopoles are recommended for Dolby Atmos), and if anything should be gracing the side walls as far as I'm aware.

I found how to connect speakers in series online, but how does one ensure they are not out of phase?

 

[Count Arthur]

I'm considering buying Revel bookshelf speakers to try as my rear surrounds replacing my latest setup which are Klipsch RP-600M II. Good idea or silly?

Amir tested the M16s and liked them:

Revel M16 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M16 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. I purchased this through my company and it arrived a few days ago. Can't tell you my cost :), but retail price is US $900 (sold $450 each). As you can expect, when you pay more, you do get more as far...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's a test of the Klipsch:

Klipsch RP-600M II Bookshelf Speaker Review

Klipsch RP-600M II Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

On "paper" the M16s look like a better speaker, however used as rear/surround speakers with some EQ, the difference might be fairly minimal.

I would mess about with the Auto Calibration first and see where that gets you, before spending more money and upsetting Darcie.

 

[2Sunny]

Amir tested the M16s and liked them:

Revel M16 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M16 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. I purchased this through my company and it arrived a few days ago. Can't tell you my cost :), but retail price is US $900 (sold $450 each). As you can expect, when you pay more, you do get more as far...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's a test of the Klipsch:

Klipsch RP-600M II Bookshelf Speaker Review

Klipsch RP-600M II Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

On "paper" the M16s look like a better speaker, however used as rear/surround speakers with some EQ, the difference might be fairly minimal.

I would mess about with the Auto Calibration first and see where that gets you, before spending more money and upsetting Darcie.

Wow. Thanks for that link. I searched and didn't find one for the M IIs. Changes my thoughts a lot as in I think I'll just keep them for now.

 

[2Sunny]

Well, looks like I'll be learning to take measurements on speakers that hopefully need no adjustment

I came to this forum last week because I was researching audio issues related to my new TV and AVR which lead me to realize that audiophiles considered the speaker set I had to be good but far from great which lead me to at first wanting to know if I could fix what I have to make it better, but in the end my unfortunate personal circumstances have made me a follower of the motto that "Life is short" but fortunately I have financial resources enough so that I can splurge $10k and not be overly concerned sooo . . .

Yesterday I ordered the following:

Revel Concerta2 F36 (2) - floor standing
Revel Concerta2 M16 (2) - bookshelf/ rear surround
Revel Concerta2 C25 (1) - center
Revel Concerta2 B10 (1) - sub
Sony STR-AZ5000ES - AVR w/ preouts
Outlaw 5000 - 5 channel amp

Fortunately, I just recently bought the Sony STR-AZ3000ES, and it is still in the exchange/return window.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Hmm. Going from Klipsch (narrow dispersion) to Revel (wide dispersion)... given your listening distances, this may backfire. Wide dispersion speakers are often preferred for stereo as they tend to give a wider soundstage, but not so much for surround. You'll definitely have more "room" involved, for better or worse, and yours still looks moderately lively. (Do you have any issues with flutter echo? That's a lot of wall in the front and glass in the back.)

 

[2Sunny]

Hmm. Going from Klipsch (narrow dispersion) to Revel (wide dispersion)... given your listening distances, this may backfire. Wide dispersion speakers are often preferred for stereo as they tend to give a wider soundstage, but not so much for surround. You'll definitely have more "room" involved, for better or worse, and yours still looks moderately lively. (Do you have any issues with flutter echo? That's a lot of wall in the front and glass in the back.)

No issues with my current setup and certainly no "flutter echo", but I guess the answer is just to hang onto what I have just in case and not sell it yet

Also, don't know if this makes it worse or better, but the room does open up on one side.