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Newbie here: looking for inexpensive DAP

Cahudson42

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Personally, I have concluded 16/44.1 is perfectly acceptable for me. As long as whatever device(s) do a decent job providing that - I'm happy..

Yes, you IPhone should be fine for Amazon music. However, you mentioned earlier you wanted a separate device..

Dabble your foot in Android cheap with the $30 LG Rebel. Best to learn 'hands on' rather than risk over-analyzing and never deciding on anything.

Again personally, I would never waste my time looking at low volume bespoke DAPS, likely manufactured in the hundreds, rather than the 10s of thousands for phones. The economics just aren't there...
 

Cahudson42

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Others need to help you on the iPhone. I'm non-Apple.

On other phones, simply googling for specs will almost certainly tell you chipset. Even the Amazon description may.

As for the LG Rebel tracFone, I have a couple. Definitely handle OTG, and are Qualcomm.
 

Cahudson42

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[QUOTE="artshotwell, post: 526611, member: 20290"I ]think I will try the LG $30 phone. Thanks for the suggestion.[/QUOTE]
Just remember - you Do Not need to 'activate' the phone, which all the included paperwork and sim card will tell you to do. Don't install the sim card. Charge and go - by first connecting to your home wifi network 2.4g... You are then 'all set' to download Amazon music and any other app from the Google play store..
 

Cahudson42

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Just FYI, my current 'portable' setup is:

LG Rebel tracFone, Amazon music app ($29)
3-wire 'charging' OTG cable ($8est)
Qudelix 5k, connected via OTG and Qudelix supplied adapter ($110)
Balanced HP cable for Hifiman HE400i ($42 rip-off - but results are worth it)
HE400i ($169)

I am really happy with this.. The Qudelix PEQ lets me null out the HE400i 'peakyness' and boost the bass a bit w/o noticeable distortion - which I am very sensitive to. Connected via 'balanced' it has enough oomph to provide ear-shattering bass. Even with -6.0 db pre for EQ. 'Great Gate of Kiev' brings shivers :)

For the $, IMO this is hard to better..
 
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artshotwell

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I just looked up your kit. It al looks good. But... What's a 'balanced HP cable?' For headphones? In college 50 years ago, I learned at our campus radio station that broadcasters use balanced lines and XLR connectors. Didn't get much further. But, worked in radio as a reporter for 30 years. What is the OTG cable you have??? Have you upgraded the Rebel to Android 9? I see Android 8 is a security risk.
 

Cahudson42

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Great questions!

First, the 'otg cable':
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B6CRW6D/
You can see there is a 'microUSB' male end - it goes to the LG Rebel. The microUSB female end, goes to a USB PS, or power brick for portable use. The USB 'full size' female is for the Qudelix 5k supplied usb-c adapter.

I do not believe in 'fixing what is not broke', and since I use the LG android 8 only as a DAP, no email or anything else, I've left it alone - on 8.

Now 'balanced' - before the Qudelix, I tried other similar devices - the ES100 and BTR3. (Amir reviewed - you can look up). They went back. They simply did not have sufficient amplifier 'oomph' for an enjoyable experience with my relatively inefficient HE400i headphones. Simply stated, 'most' inexpensive hp have a 3 wire 'unbalanced' setup. There is a L, a R and a Common. These 'end' with (usually) a 3.5mm 'TRS' 3-contact connector.

'Balanced', on the other hand, have a 4-wire connection. A +L and -L, and a +R and a -R. These have several advantages - both for power delivery and noise/hum reduction. You would think this would, obviously, be the 'default provisioning' for HP - but it's not. Only 'higher end' HP may end with the 2.5mm TRRS male 4 wire connector. Even my Hifiman $169 HE400i comes with a 3-wire 'unbalanced' cable - completely throwing away it's native ability to be connected Balanced (Usually indicated by separate y-cable connections to each R and L cup). Hence, the 'need' to buy a new ($42) balanced 4-wire cable for the HE400i.

There are, on the other hand, plenty of decent 3-wire 'unbalanced'' HP. The phillips SHP9500, for $79, is an extremely comfortable 3-wire (only one connection to the cups. It's Unbalanced only). And it's more efficient than the HE400i. Works great on the a Qudelix via it's 3.5mm .. (I use an SHP9500 for casual TV via an inexpensive generic bluetooth receiver).

Other question - ask! :)

Edit: Anticipating HP questions, I suggest looking over diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com. This is @solderdude great HP site. Read everything on it!:)
 
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artshotwell

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So, my Sennheiser hp has a four wire plug going into the headset, but a three wire connector at the other end. which fits the Apple dongle on my iPhone. Sennheiser‘s specs don’t mention balanced nor, for that matter, impedence. I’ll check the site you mentioned next.
 
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artshotwell

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I received the LG Rebel phone today. It’s a learning curve when it comes to putting all the apps I use on the home page. I have uninstalled a few crap apps. I’ll learn this thing.

Using AmazonMusicHD, I see music listed at 24-bit/96khz plays at 24/48. Same as it does on my iphone Xr. Gives me what amounts to a separate music player. Which has been my goal. But as I say, I still to figure out just how Android works. So far, I have not been able to Bluetooth to my AppleTV.
 

Cahudson42

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Just in case you may not know, Android 8 has normally hidden 'Developer Options'
Go to Settings>System>About Phone>Software Info and see Build Number. Tap it 8 times in a row to activate Developer Options.

In DO there are a number of Bluetooth settings.
 
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artshotwell

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I can’t even figure out how to put the apps I want on the Home Screen and remove the others. I’ll check out developer options. Not sure I need ’em, tho.
 

JustAnandaDourEyedDude

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I received the LG Rebel phone today. It’s a learning curve when it comes to putting all the apps I use on the home page. I have uninstalled a few crap apps. I’ll learn this thing.

Using AmazonMusicHD, I see music listed at 24-bit/96khz plays at 24/48. Same as it does on my iphone Xr. Gives me what amounts to a separate music player. Which has been my goal. But as I say, I still to figure out just how Android works. So far, I have not been able to Bluetooth to my AppleTV.

Thanks to excellent suggestions from Cahudson42 and Beershaun, you now have your separate and low-cost music player, which should give you decent sound quality (SQ), while streaming AmazonMusicHD. Though the fact that LG does not list the audio DAC in the specs sheet probably means that it is not on par with their higher-priced phones. In the future, if you replaced the LG Rebel 4 with an LG V10 or higher, or LG G7 or G8, you would get quad ES9218P DAC-Amps and pretty good SQ.

If you wanted still better SQ, you could simply plug into the LG Rebel's USB port a high-quality dongle form factor DAC-Amp such as the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro ($40) or E1DA #9038S ($105, but it takes only a 2.5mm balanced cable plug) or the upcoming E1DA #9038D (takes a standard 3.5mm three-pole plug). The LG Rebel would then be used only as a "transport" to send your music file or stream to the dongle. The SQ of this combination would be extremely difficult to achieve with a DAP at any price. The E1DA #9038S would provide plenty of power to drive even higher-impedance headphones. It would take a high-quality desktop DAC and headphone amp to rival and perhaps surpass the Rebel+dongle combo. The arrival of high-quality USB dongles seems to render DAPs obsolete. The only (small) downside of the combo is that you have a full-fledged phone plus a dongle, perhaps a little inconvenient when you are out and about, especially if you also have to carry your iPhone XR with you. For people that do not use a separate device as a music player, using a dongle on their phone will also drain the battery some.

The compact HiBy R3 Pro that I bought last December for $200, which replaced a HiBy R3 that I used for a year in my car, has noticeably better SQ than the R3. It has a THD spec of 0.0008% (which is -102dB) using its balanced 2.5mm socket and driving a real load, which is quite respectable for a DAP at that price. It also has dual DACs compared with the R3's single DAC, and delivers twice the power as the R3 out of its balanced socket (210mW per channel into 32ohms; however only 21mW into 300ohms, which is weak for high-impedance headphones). I cannot understand how HiBy continues to sell the R3 at the same price of $200. The R3 Pro comes with either dual CS43131 or dual ES9218P DAC-amps (the Saber variant), and its SQ is comparable to what you would get directly from a LG V10, V20 or from Qudelix 5K, FiiO BTR5 and Shanling UP4. Anyway, all of this about the HiBy R3 is moot because it does not fit your use case. It runs a HiBy OS, which is a custom stripped down Android to enable decent UI response on its weak Ingenic CPU. It also provides stripped down Tidal and Qobuz apps for streaming over WiFi but no offline mode, and most importantly no AmazonMusicHD streaming app currently (or AppleMusic either). HiBy says that more streaming services are coming, but I am skeptical about that. I use it only to play music files from a microSD card when it is inconvenient to carry a full-sized DAP somewhere.

To get close enough to the SQ of the Rebel+dongle combo for practical purposes, while not having to deal with a dongle, and while being able to stream any music service you like, you would need the iBasso DX160, which at $400 lies outside your stated price range. In the DAP world, the DX160 is a bargain for what it provides. Its specs and SQ surpass even those of iBasso's much higher-priced flagship (but older) DAP, the DX220 with the default Amp 1 Mk II. It uses dual CS43198 DACs, and through its balanced 4.4mm Pentaconn socket (it also has a standard 3.5mm socket) it achieves a SNR of 130dB and a THD to signal ratio of 0.00022% (-113dB), per iBasso's Audio Precision measurements. Through the balanced output, the DX160 can generate up to 6.4Vrms to drive 136mW into a 300ohm load, which will make even most high-impedance headphones plenty loud, and which is likely more than most phones are capable of even with a powerful dongle. I have the 2019 version, but the 2020 version beefs up the output buffer to provide even more current for 32ohms lower impedance headphones. The DX160 runs Android 8.1, which allows you to get any streaming music service over WiFi. Furthermore, the audio layer of the OS is customized to bypass AndroidSRC so that all apps playback audio in bit-perfect mode, and HiRes audio is sent to the CS43198 DACs without downsampling to 16/44.1. Of course, you would need to check online forums beforehand for user experiences to verify that the AmazonMusicHD app streams properly on the DX160, and that its offline mode works. I have not yet streamed any music on my DAPs; my streaming service usage is limited to my desktop PC.

Now that you have your independent source-dac-amp, the biggest step up in SQ would come from replacing your headphones. Try parametric EQ on your current ones first, to see if you can get a preferred tonality that would suffice. Finding better headphones at a reasonable cost is a perilous journey, and solderdude's website that Cahudson42 linked to is an excellent resource to start your research. Ultimately, measurements and reviews can guide, but not guarantee finding a headphone that matches your ears and taste.

The Bluetooth (BT) you use is the weak low-SQ link in your setup. I do not hanker after HiRes audio (16/44.1 is good enough for me, I think it improbable that any difference in SQ between that and HiRes would be audible to me), but I would say that even the best Bluetooth codecs available now are lossy and may be just about able to match 16/44.1 resolution at best. Sending HiRes audio through BT is pointless. The default SBC has a low default bitrate; AAC is better but you need an Apple device to transmit the BT. If you need the convenience of BT, to get decent SQ you should aim for at least AptX HD codec support in both transmitter and receiver. For this, the transmitter must have the Qualcomm CSR8675 chip, and the receiver needs either the CSR8675 or one of the newer lower-power receive-only Qualcomm 5100 series chips. If both transmitter and receiver support even higher bitrate codecs such as LDAC or UAT, you can get very good SQ over BT.

If you are going to get better headphones in the future, I recommend you use a lightweight BT receiver such as (all using dual ES9218P) Qudelix 5K, FiiO BTR5 or Shanling UP4 (or even perhaps the Hidizs AP80 Pro DAP also with dual ES9218P DACs, though its listed THD+N is a high -96dB) that you can clip to your shirt pocket or belt, rather than buying headphones with the BT built-in. The latter locks you in to a particular BT implementation and a particular set of headphones, and some of the weight of a BT receiver still goes into the headphone earcup. A independent BT receiver gives you the flexibility to use any headphones or earphones depending on your mood, and can be changed out for a better BT implementation when one comes along. The upcoming BT 6.0 standard will supposedly come with better than SBC and AAC codecs built-in by default, that may perform as well as the current best proprietary ones. I use two reliable but now dated EarStudio ES100 BT receivers which give me AptX HD reception. While I use one, I recharge the other so that I effectively get infinite battery runtime, which would not be possible with a single more expensive headphone with the BT built-in. I think the HiBy R3 Pro and iBasso DX160 are capable of receiving (and transmitting) BT using AptX HD, LDAC and (R3 Pro only) UAT. They are also capable of receiving regular WiFi from your iPhone, LG Rebel, laptop/desktop computer or presumably the internet via your router, and with the WiFi your music streaming would be lossless (but consume the battery faster than BT).

You can get excellent BT quality, approaching the CD 16/44.1 information rate (losslessly compressed bitrate), with your current gear by adding to it as follows. Get a USB OTG cable (should be inexpensive) and the tiny Shanling M0 DAP, and use it with your LG Rebel to transmit via LDAC codec BT. See the post Bluetooth aptX HD from Windows 10 PC to Topping D50s by Berwhale and his subsequent posts in that thread. It will require a firmware update of the Shanling M0 to enable LDAC transmission capability. The FiiO M5 might also be capable of this function (it can transmit LDAC BT), but it is not known to us, whereas Berwhale has verified that the M0 can do it. Buy one of the Qudelix 5K, FiiO BTR5 or Shanling UP4, which can each receive LDAC BT 5.0, clip it to your shirt and plug your Sennheiser BT HP into it with the existing cable. Or better yet, buy a balanced cable for the HP and plug it into the 2.5mm balanced output of the BT receiver. Voila, when the devices are BT paired, you have a high bitrate LDAC BT stream. Then, when you are of a mind to sit down and seriously listen to 16/44.1 or HiRes music, you unplug the Shanling M0, plug a E1DA #9038S or #9038D into the LG Rebel via USB C, unplug your Sennheiser HP from the BT receiver and plug it into the dongle for the highest SQ listening.

On a side note, the fact that your Sennheiser HP has a cable with a 2.5mm four-pole plug going into the HP means that your HP can likely take a balanced cable that you may find on Amazon or AliExpress (2.5mm four-pole at one end and either 2.5mm four-pole or 4.4mm Pentaconn or even 4-pin XLR at the other).
 
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Cahudson42

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Though the fact that LG does not list the audio DAC in the specs sheet probably means that it is not on par with their higher-priced phones. In the future, if you replaced the LG Rebel 4 with an LG V10 or higher, or LG G7 or G8, you would get quad ES9218P DAC-Amps and pretty good SQ.

All true. Supposedly, all Snapdragons include a WCD9xx DAC. I believe that was the 'standard' DAC measured by Amir in the G7 test. 105db SINAD (going by memory). The Quad DAC ES9218P in the V10/20/G7 was 110db, a nice improvement. But 105db is no slouch.

Fact is, we could use more phones and tablets measured by Amir. A Fire phone/tablet with the 'bargain' MediaTek chip, the LG Rebel with the low-end Snapdragon 425, etc.

FWIW, I just USB OTG connected a $110 Qudelix 5k to one of my LG Rebels. The Qudelix 2.5m balanced has enough 'oomph' to drive HE400i to 'ear shattering' but apparently low distortion levels. 'Only' 2 ES9218P, not 4 :) But a great 10-band PEQ for boosting the HE400i bass and clipping the 7k peak..

The Qudelix, for those so inclined, also let's you really get lost in the weeds by selecting ESSs 7 different reconstruction filters..
 
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JustAnandaDourEyedDude

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All true. Supposedly, all Snapdragons include a WCD9xx DAC. I believe that was the 'standard' DAC measured by Amir in the G7 test. 105db SINAD (going by memory). The Quad DAC ES9218P in the V10/20/G7 was 110db, a nice improvement. But 105db is no slouch.

Fact is, we could use more phones and tablets measured by Amir. A Fire phone/tablet with the 'bargain' MediaTek chip, the LG Rebel with the low-end Snapdragon 425, etc.

FWIW, I just USB OTG connected a $110 Qudelix 5k to one of my LG Rebels. The Qudelix 2.5m balanced has enough 'oomph' to drive HE400i to 'ear shattering' but apparently low distortion levels. 'Only' 2 ES9218P, not 4 :) But a great 10-band PEQ for boosting the HE400i bass and clipping the 7k peak..
You are right, 105dB SINAD with the Snapdragon DAC is pretty good. I did not peruse the G7 test.

Cool move, using the Qudelix as a USB DAC-amp. So you are not using its BT I guess. Yes, I never caught the reason LG used four DAC chips, what was the advantage over two. Your Qudelix should give you a similar SINAD. HiBy usually sets the default EQ on their DAPs to suit modern genres, and I have to switch that to the "Reference" or "Classical" setting to get my preferred tonality. Both HiBy and iBasso provide pretty good PEQ, but I never use EQ anywhere.

You are right, some measurements of modestly priced equipment would be great. My reckless spendy days of audiophile obsession are over, I plan to stick to items priced at sweet spots, under the diminishing returns price, from now on ::: fingers crossed :::
 

Cahudson42

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So you are not using its BT
Correct. I may try it to get PEQ in future to my old RX-596 Yamaha BR system w/R162s (Quedlix 3.5mm >RCA>RX-596 Pure CD), but with HP and OTG, bt provides simply the connection between the Qudelix app on the Rebel and the Qudelix itself - simultaneous with the OTG audio from Amazon Music HD. Nice!
 
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bobbooo

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Supposedly, all Snapdragons include a WCD9xx DAC. I believe that was the 'standard' DAC measured by Amir in the G7 test.

Ah of course, I didn't think of that. The LG G7 uses the Snapdragon 845 chipset, which according to Qualcomm can either include the WCD9335 or WCD9341 audio codec (I'm pretty sure it's the latter though, as I'm not aware of any phones using the former with the 845). Teardowns have shown the Samsung Galaxy S8 and Note8 (Snapdragon 835), S9 and Note9 (845), and S10 (855) series all use the WCD9341. (Interestingly, the WCD9385 used in the latest Snapdragon 865/865+ chipsets actually has worse rated dynamic range and distortion than the previous WCD9335 and WCD9341 chips). Here's how the G7's standard DAC measured:

index.php


But note, when used with UAPP (which can access the full volume range of the audio chip, bumping it up to 1V from ~0.8V), this was measured:

index.php


This second measurement is quite similar to the Samsung Galaxy S8+, note the similarity with the 2nd then odd-order harmonic distortion spikes (clipping?):

index.php


This close similarity seems to be further evidence the G7 is using the same WCD9341 as the S8+. Maybe the slightly lower output for the S8+ is connected to its higher output impedance to the G7's, and the higher distortion could be due to it being tested with Roon, which unlike UAPP is not bit-perfect and goes through the Android mixer which I believe resamples to 48 kHz. Soomal.com also found the S8+'s performance to be better than above (although their measurements aren't at full-scale volume it seems), more like the first results for the G7's standard DAC above (at a lower output of ~0.8V). So the S8+'s performance (and other phones using the WCD9341 audio codec) is likely excellent up to, say, 1 step below full-volume, comparable to the G7's standard DAC SINAD of 105 dB, and still probably audibly transparent at max volume anyway. There are many phones out there with this and similarly high-performing audio chips. One thing that should be watched out for is output impedance though - the Xiaomi Mi 9T Pro (which uses the Qualcomm WCD9340, that seems to be similar to the WCD9341 but without DSD support) has a high output impedance of 22.7 ohms, as well as output limited to max 0.5V. I agree it would be great if we could see more smartphone and tablet reviews on here, as these are still the most commonly used devices for listening to music with headphones for the majority of people. If it turns out the devices in everyone's pockets are mostly audibly transparent, there won't be any need for people to waste their money on separate DAPs, dongles, external DACs etc.
 
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artshotwell

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Thanks to excellent suggestions from Cahudson42 and Beershaun, you now have your separate and low-cost music player, which should give you decent sound quality (SQ), while streaming AmazonMusicHD. Though the fact that LG does not list the audio DAC in the specs sheet probably means that it is not on par with their higher-priced phones. In the future, if you replaced the LG Rebel 4 with an LG V10 or higher, or LG G7 or G8, you would get quad ES9218P DAC-Amps and pretty good SQ.

If you wanted still better SQ, you could simply plug into the LG Rebel's USB port a high-quality dongle form factor DAC-Amp such as the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro ($40) or E1DA #9038S ($105, but it takes only a 2.5mm balanced cable plug) or the upcoming E1DA #9038D (takes a standard 3.5mm three-pole plug). The LG Rebel would then be used only as a "transport" to send your music file or stream to the dongle. The SQ of this combination would be extremely difficult to achieve with a DAP at any price. The E1DA #9038S would provide plenty of power to drive even higher-impedance headphones. It would take a high-quality desktop DAC and headphone amp to rival and perhaps surpass the Rebel+dongle combo. The arrival of high-quality USB dongles seems to render DAPs obsolete. The only (small) downside of the combo is that you have a full-fledged phone plus a dongle, perhaps a little inconvenient when you are out and about, especially if you also have to carry your iPhone XR with you. For people that do not use a separate device as a music player, using a dongle on their phone will also drain the battery some.

The compact HiBy R3 Pro that I bought last December for $200, which replaced a HiBy R3 that I used for a year in my car, has noticeably better SQ than the R3. It has a THD spec of 0.0008% (which is -102dB) using its balanced 2.5mm socket and driving a real load, which is quite respectable for a DAP at that price. It also has dual DACs compared with the R3's single DAC, and delivers twice the power as the R3 out of its balanced socket (210mW per channel into 32ohms; however only 21mW into 300ohms, which is weak for high-impedance headphones). I cannot understand how HiBy continues to sell the R3 at the same price of $200. The R3 Pro comes with either dual CS43131 or dual ES9218P DAC-amps (the Saber variant), and its SQ is comparable to what you would get directly from a LG V10, V20 or from Qudelix 5K, FiiO BTR5 and Shanling UP4. Anyway, all of this about the HiBy R3 is moot because it does not fit your use case. It runs a HiBy OS, which is a custom stripped down Android to enable decent UI response on its weak Ingenic CPU. It also provides stripped down Tidal and Qobuz apps for streaming over WiFi but no offline mode, and most importantly no AmazonMusicHD streaming app currently (or AppleMusic either). HiBy says that more streaming services are coming, but I am skeptical about that. I use it only to play music files from a microSD card when it is inconvenient to carry a full-sized DAP somewhere.

To get close enough to the SQ of the Rebel+dongle combo for practical purposes, while not having to deal with a dongle, and while being able to stream any music service you like, you would need the iBasso DX160, which at $400 lies outside your stated price range. In the DAP world, the DX160 is a bargain for what it provides. Its specs and SQ surpass even those of iBasso's much higher-priced flagship (but older) DAP, the DX220 with the default Amp 1 Mk II. It uses dual CS43198 DACs, and through its balanced 4.4mm Pentaconn socket (it also has a standard 3.5mm socket) it achieves a SNR of 130dB and a THD to signal ratio of 0.00022% (-113dB), per iBasso's Audio Precision measurements. Through the balanced output, the DX160 can generate up to 6.4Vrms to drive 136mW into a 300ohm load, which will make even most high-impedance headphones plenty loud, and which is likely more than most phones are capable of even with a powerful dongle. I have the 2019 version, but the 2020 version beefs up the output buffer to provide even more current for 32ohms lower impedance headphones. The DX160 runs Android 8.1, which allows you to get any streaming music service over WiFi. Furthermore, the audio layer of the OS is customized to bypass AndroidSRC so that all apps playback audio in bit-perfect mode, and HiRes audio is sent to the CS43198 DACs without downsampling to 16/44.1. Of course, you would need to check online forums beforehand for user experiences to verify that the AmazonMusicHD app streams properly on the DX160, and that its offline mode works. I have not yet streamed any music on my DAPs; my streaming service usage is limited to my desktop PC.

Now that you have your independent source-dac-amp, the biggest step up in SQ would come from replacing your headphones. Try parametric EQ on your current ones first, to see if you can get a preferred tonality that would suffice. Finding better headphones at a reasonable cost is a perilous journey, and solderdude's website that Cahudson42 linked to is an excellent resource to start your research. Ultimately, measurements and reviews can guide, but not guarantee finding a headphone that matches your ears and taste.

The Bluetooth (BT) you use is the weak low-SQ link in your setup. I do not hanker after HiRes audio (16/44.1 is good enough for me, I think it improbable that any difference in SQ between that and HiRes would be audible to me), but I would say that even the best Bluetooth codecs available now are lossy and may be just about able to match 16/44.1 resolution at best. Sending HiRes audio through BT is pointless. The default SBC has a low default bitrate; AAC is better but you need an Apple device to transmit the BT. If you need the convenience of BT, to get decent SQ you should aim for at least AptX HD codec support in both transmitter and receiver. For this, the transmitter must have the Qualcomm CSR8675 chip, and the receiver needs either the CSR8675 or one of the newer lower-power receive-only Qualcomm 5100 series chips. If both transmitter and receiver support even higher bitrate codecs such as LDAC or UAT, you can get very good SQ over BT.

If you are going to get better headphones in the future, I recommend you use a lightweight BT receiver such as (all using dual ES9218P) Qudelix 5K, FiiO BTR5 or Shanling UP4 (or even perhaps the Hidizs AP80 Pro DAP also with dual ES9218P DACs, though its listed THD+N is a high -96dB) that you can clip to your shirt pocket or belt, rather than buying headphones with the BT built-in. The latter locks you in to a particular BT implementation and a particular set of headphones, and some of the weight of a BT receiver still goes into the headphone earcup. A independent BT receiver gives you the flexibility to use any headphones or earphones depending on your mood, and can be changed out for a better BT implementation when one comes along. The upcoming BT 6.0 standard will supposedly come with better than SBC and AAC codecs built-in by default, that may perform as well as the current best proprietary ones. I use two reliable but now dated EarStudio ES100 BT receivers which give me AptX HD reception. While I use one, I recharge the other so that I effectively get infinite battery runtime, which would not be possible with a single more expensive headphone with the BT built-in. I think the HiBy R3 Pro and iBasso DX160 are capable of receiving (and transmitting) BT using AptX HD, LDAC and (R3 Pro only) UAT. They are also capable of receiving regular WiFi from your iPhone, LG Rebel, laptop/desktop computer or presumably the internet via your router, and with the WiFi your music streaming would be lossless (but consume the battery faster than BT).

You can get excellent BT quality, approaching the CD 16/44.1 information rate (losslessly compressed bitrate), with your current gear by adding to it as follows. Get a USB OTG cable (should be inexpensive) and the tiny Shanling M0 DAP, and use it with your LG Rebel to transmit via LDAC codec BT. See the post Bluetooth aptX HD from Windows 10 PC to Topping D50s by Berwhale and his subsequent posts in that thread. It will require a firmware update of the Shanling M0 to enable LDAC transmission capability. The FiiO M5 might also be capable of this function (it can transmit LDAC BT), but it is not known to us, whereas Berwhale has verified that the M0 can do it. Buy one of the Qudelix 5K, FiiO BTR5 or Shanling UP4, which can each receive LDAC BT 5.0, clip it to your shirt and plug your Sennheiser BT HP into it with the existing cable. Or better yet, buy a balanced cable for the HP and plug it into the 2.5mm balanced output of the BT receiver. Voila, when the devices are BT paired, you have a high bitrate LDAC BT stream. Then, when you are of a mind to sit down and seriously listen to 16/44.1 or HiRes music, you unplug the Shanling M0, plug a E1DA #9038S or #9038D into the LG Rebel via USB C, unplug your Sennheiser HP from the BT receiver and plug it into the dongle for the highest SQ listening.

On a side note, the fact that your Sennheiser HP has a cable with a 2.5mm four-pole plug going into the HP means that your HP can likely take a balanced cable that you may find on Amazon or AliExpress (2.5mm four-pole at one end and either 2.5mm four-pole or 4.4mm Pentaconn or even 4-pin XLR at the other).

I am using the LG Rebel4 and it seems to work fine with my Sennheiser HPs. Getting good sound quality. The headphones are now the weak link. After looking at better headphones, I'll look at a DAC, I guess. I've read your note here and I think I see a couple of options that are affordable. I'm afflicted with tinnitus as well as high frequency hearing loss. I'm not certain about the hearing loss, though. I attended an EDM music festival in Belgium in 2019 (I would have gone again this year, but...) and though I heard everything that was being played, but at home, my music just doesn't sound as good. Not nearly as good. And, I frequently have a problem hearing tv dislog clearly.
 

Cahudson42

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I'm afflicted with tinnitus as well as high frequency hearing loss..... at home, my music just doesn't sound as good. Not nearly as good. And, I frequently have a problem hearing tv dislog clearly.
The $110 Qudelix 5k works perfectly with LG Rebel via 3-wire OTG cable and USB. I have this combo by my bedside now - driving HE400i (balanced needed). Qudelix has a really great 10-band PEQ. You might consider it as a next step..

Not only can you tailor the headphone response, you might try adding a bit of boost in the 'dialog' range (500Hz-3kHz? Others with more experience advise?) and/or notch out any particular range that triggers tinnitus..

Now, whether to get new headphones or a Qudelix as the next step - I can't say. (Others advise?) - as I know nothing about the HD450bt. ( @solderdude?)

I'm partial to low distortion planar open back - hence my HE400i ($180). But I also use - a lot - a $79 Phillips dynamic open back - the SHP9500 (for tv, as it's extremely comfortable hours on end).

However, since you are ultimately thinking of HP replacement, and IMO need PEQ in any event, I personally would get the Qudelix first - and try it with the HD450bt you have. Then, if I were unhappy even after doing my best with PEQ, I'd then be considering HP replacement..

Note: this is the OTG cable you need to connect the Qudelix (also using one of its supplied cables) to the LG Rebel:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B6CRW6D/

When you power the cable thru the female microUSB connector using the LG supplied usb power brick, both devices will be powered from it.
 
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artshotwell

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The $110 Qudelix 5k works perfectly with LG Rebel via 3-wire OTG cable and USB. I have this combo by my bedside now - driving HE400i (balanced needed). Qudelix has a really great 10-band PEQ. You might consider it as a next step..

Not only can you tailor the headphone response, you might try adding a bit of boost in the 'dialog' range (500Hz-3kHz? Others with more experience advise?) and/or notch out any particular range that triggers tinnitus..

Now, whether to get new headphones or a Qudelix as the next step - I can't say. (Others advise?) - as I know nothing about the HD450bt. ( @solderdude?)

I'm partial to low distortion planar open back - hence my HE400i ($180). But I also use - a lot - a $79 Phillips dynamic open back - the SHP9500 (for tv, as it's extremely comfortable hours on end).

However, since you are ultimately thinking of HP replacement, and IMO need PEQ in any event, I personally would get the Qudelix first - and try it with the HD450bt you have. Then, if I were unhappy even after doing my best with PEQ, I'd then be considering HP replacement..

Note: this is the OTG cable you need to connect the Qudelix (also using one of its supplied cables) to the LG Rebel:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B6CRW6D/

When you power the cable thru the female microUSB connector using the LG supplied usb power brick, both devices will be powered from it.
Thanks... I also have Beats Solo 3. But, don’t really like the sound. Too much bass.
 
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