Newbie desktop headphone listening setup question

[Tansen]

This is my first post in this wonderful and super useful forum.

I discovered the audiophile rabbit hole and went down during the holidays. I got a Topping A90 at a great price(~400$) and HD660S. I am currently using Bluesound Node20(2019 model) as a DAC and have a audioquest black portable dac/amp. I listen to Apple Music, mostly to following genre: classic rock, female vocals, jazz , some instrumental tracks mostly from movies and 8D/spatial audio.. I think I prefer a neutral DAC and am NOT a Bass head.

I was looking for a value for money balanced DAC with USB interface for music input:Budget less than 250$ USD. From previous threads on this forum I understand that Node20 is a great versatile player but not as good as a DAC. I am considering

• D10 balanced,
• D30 pro,
• Soncoz LA-QXD.
• Qudelix-5K Bluetooth USB DAC AMP

It super confusing. I do not need a bluetooth, MQA or a optical out. I have no clue what I am not sure if I should go for a EQ feature

I do plan to blow more money on a HifiMan Arya or Focal clears in 2022 and some good IEMs- Moondrop Blessing. Then I plan to blow some more money in 2023 on a better DAC if needed.

Any and all suggestions , insights, audiophile related DAC concepts explained to a dummy are most welcome. Thank you

 

[_thelaughingman]

If you're looking for value, then the D10 offers the best bang for the buck. This way you can save money and put it towards the Arya or Focals you want.

 

[raindance]

What is a Node 20?

 

[_thelaughingman]

What is a Node 20?

BlueNode 2i is a streamer device with its own OS and has a pretty decent amount of integration for audio interfaces.

 

[Tansen]

What is a Node 20?

Lol
Typos that I often make
Node2i not 20

 

[Wicky]

D10 balanced should be perfect for what you need. I assume you want USB because your source/streamer will be a PC and/or RPi? If so, you can get a player/software based DSP for EQ etc... Otherwise you might want to consider a DAC with integrated DSP or purchase a separate component (like miniDSP). IMO having an EQ gives a significant price/performance upgrade to most headphone based setups.

You should be considering the following components:
Source -> DSP* -> Streamer -> DAC -> Amp -> Headphones

* or ( Streamer -> DSP )

 

[Wicky]

..Also did you consider keeping the 2i in your chain as a streamer only with Digi out to your new DAC? If you like the BlueOS app/player and want to keep it or would you move your streamer/playing to a PC app?

 

[Tansen]

D10 balanced should be perfect for what you need. I assume you want USB because your source/streamer will be a PC and/or RPi? If so, you can get a player/software based DSP for EQ etc... Otherwise you might want to consider a DAC with integrated DSP or purchase a separate component (like miniDSP). IMO having an EQ gives a significant price/performance upgrade to most headphone based setups.

You should be considering the following components:
Source -> DSP* -> Streamer -> DAC -> Amp -> Headphones

* or ( Streamer -> DSP )

Many thanks for your suggestions. Primary source is mac (M1 chip) apple music and flac music files from a drive. I will explore mac compatible EQ software and figure out if one software can control all app sound output from my mac. Kindly recommend names if you use EQ.

MacMini ->D10 balanced -> A90 ->HD660S

The node2i was earlier used or rather rarely used with my living room setup: Sony XR65X90J + AVR Anthem MRX710 + Apple TV 4K + Paradigm Prestige 95F 2X front floor speakers. I am quite happy with that setup.
So I am not sure what to do with the Node2i yet: I may sell it.

Thanks again. Have a great weekend.

 

[_thelaughingman]

Many thanks for your suggestions. Primary source is mac (M1 chip) apple music and flac music files from a drive. I will explore mac compatible EQ software and figure out if one software can control all app sound output from my mac. Kindly recommend names if you use EQ.

MacMini ->D10 balanced -> A90 ->HD660S

The node2i was earlier used or rather rarely used with my living room setup: Sony XR65X90J + AVR Anthem MRX710 + Apple TV 4K + Paradigm Prestige 95F 2X front floor speakers. I am quite happy with that setup.
So I am not sure what to do with the Node2i yet: I may sell it.

Thanks again. Have a great weekend.

SoundSource for macOS is an all in one solution that controls sound from various sources in one app and it is the perfect solution for headphone EQ. It comes with built-in EQ profiles for any and all headphones, since it uses EQ profiles sourced from many reputed reviewers. Additionally, you can use plugins that can run within sound source for parametric EQ. It has a trial period that allows you to trial the software before you purchase it for all the features.

 

[Tansen]

SoundSource for macOS is an all in one solution that controls sound from various sources in one app and it is the perfect solution for headphone EQ. It comes with built-in EQ profiles for any and all headphones, since it uses EQ profiles sourced from many reputed reviewers. Additionally, you can use plugins that can run within sound source for parametric EQ. It has a trial period that allows you to trial the software before you purchase it for all the features.

Awesome. Will check it out and definitely take the trial. Thks

 

[Tansen]

It is a SWEET SETUP.
Even without the EQ that I am trying that is so much versatile and has headphone presets built in from oratory, crinacle and others.
Thanks @_theLaughingman @Wicky


My initial impressions are that D10 balanced is mostly neutral but changes the bass to make it more warm/mellower. Ahhh it’s so very subjective even when I try to write my descriptions of auditory perception. Only minor disadvantage is the D10 although so compact has a big footprint with the xlr adapters and on a bookshelf need to be placed diagonally or parallel to the edge. I use a standing desk on a regular desk and do not want the dac-amp setup. I will post photos later of the setup. And except removing the usb cable I have not figured a way to power off the D10.


My dac-amp -endgame achieved- till end of 2023. All of it with HD660S was around $1000 USD thanks to Black Friday sale and warehouse deals.

I am now curious to figure out what a more expensive DAC does to this amazing setup? Diminishing returns in term of audio quality with more bells and whistles??? Or there will be again a “Wow! I am so blown away” reaction when I get a D90 or a Gustard X series DAC. Good times ahead in this

 

[ZolaIII]

I don't think you are perceiving your needs clearly enough. For a DAC amp to be versatile you need outputs to be lo impedance, that it have high SINAD on lo voltage (lower volume listening preference or sensitive [LPS/mV] lo impedance one's), a series enough additional Amp stage for considerably more higher voltage loads on both balanced and (even more importantly) unbalanced hedaphone outs. Balanced gives you grounding in transport, more power and better crosstalk (separation) but again that only have a sense with over 100 Ohm's driver's and only some (traditional dynamic one's in first place).
For the rest take a look at the comparison tables hire and elsewhere and dive into it with preferences and wishes.
I found Topping EX5 as not bad for some 400$ (350+ shipping ± taxes) or more (with all of it's flows and shortcomings while still discoveryng new ones [narrow IR, BT receiver only...] but I am sure you will find better, happy hunting.

 

[Berwhale]

I am now curious to figure out what a more expensive DAC does to this amazing setup? Diminishing returns in term of audio quality with more bells and whistles??? Or there will be again a “Wow! I am so blown away” reaction when I get a D90 or a Gustard X series DAC. Good times ahead in this

From an audible perspective, you've got nothing to gain from a more expensive DAC. The D10 is well into the range of 'audibly transparent'.

 

[Tansen]

I don't think you are perceiving your needs clearly enough. For a DAC amp to be versatile you need outputs to be lo impedance, that it have high SINAD on lo voltage (lower volume listening preference or sensitive [LPS/mV] lo impedance one's), a series enough additional Amp stage for considerably more higher voltage loads on both balanced and (even more importantly) unbalanced hedaphone outs. Balanced gives you grounding in transport, more power and better crosstalk (separation) but again that only have a sense with over 100 Ohm's driver's and only some (traditional dynamic one's in first place).
For the rest take a look at the comparison tables hire and elsewhere and dive into it with preferences and wishes.
I found Topping EX5 as not bad for some 400$ (350+ shipping ± taxes) or more (with all of it's flows and shortcomings while still discoveryng new ones [narrow IR, BT receiver only...] but I am sure you will find better, happy hunting.

Thank you for a detailed response. No shame in confessing that I didn't understand your first paragraph well. With more high end headphones this setup will be tested and likely needs tweaking. I had Arya and a better IEM( Moondrop blessing) in mind. SO much more to read, understand and execute!

 

[ZolaIII]

Thank you for a detailed response. No shame in confessing that I didn't understand your first paragraph well. With more high end headphones this setup will be tested and likely needs tweaking. I had Arya and a better IEM( Moondrop blessing) in mind. SO much more to read, understand and execute!

You need a high SINAD with a lo gain (mV) and self lo impedance (amp output impedance) to drive lo impedance hedaphones/earphones/IEM's with high sensitivity LSP/mV (IEM's only being most notorious). See the SNR at 50 mV output in tables and reviews hire. You need a high mV output on lo impedance with planars. You need a reasonable high output on high impedance hedaphones and only such make most sense to use balanced contentions regarding separation. That are all amplifier requirements and all together to call it versatile. DAC line out multitone 2V unbalanced, 4V balanced SINAD doesn't play any significance in that.

 

[Wicky]

Kindly recommend names if you use EQ

I use Roon which has an inbuilt DSP with PEQ functionality. A bit expensive for some, but ticks a number of boxes for me.

As you already have a A90 you already have a top of the line amp that delivers against the requirements mentioned by @ZolaIII above. The Topping D90 (or newer D90SE) is the matching DAC model and is the same form-factor of the A90 so will provide a nice looking 'stack' on your desktop if aesthetics are an important consideration.

As others have already pointed out, the D10 will perform equally well in terms of audible performance as the D90/SE, the D90 provides no more than (potentially) a better form-factor and bragging rights on a few points more SINAD.

 

[Tansen]

Abracadabra!!
SoundSource with 10 band EQ set to Jazz and Headphone EQ of oratory 11990 made Drums of New Orleans -Wycliffe Gordon come out ALIVE.

Damn Audiophile hobby is like a onion-Layers to peel causing tears of joy or sorrow from depleted savings.