[Newbie] Combine Eversolo A8 with Technics SU-G700M2

[showei]

Hi guys, first timer here I'm currently using technics G700m2 with pair of KEF reference 3, and need to get a streamer with HDMI arc on top of my setup, after I read the reviews on this forum, I'm getting a Eversolo A8 on the way.This is the first time I'm connecting two 'boxes' together and have some newbie questions here, any opinions and suggestions are welcomed!

My first question is: both G700 and A8 has DAC/preamp function and can take USB digital input from PC (which is my main source), which one has a better DAC/preamp spec-wise? Should I keep PC to G700 directly, or use the DAC/preamp from A8 and let g700 be just a power amp?

Second question, I'm thinking of just use A8 as streamer and connect its digital output to G700's digital input, but in the A8 manual I read that when using HDMI arc as input (or any other digital input), all digital outputs are disabled, this means every time I switch from streaming to TV, the digital output to G700 will not work and I have to do a lot of remote control operations for just to watching TV, why is that and is there any workaround for it?

In general, I don't know how much sense it makes to let A8 to do DAC and preamp then output analog signals to G700 via RCA then G700 convert it back to digital then carry on...

 

[staticV3]

Hi @showei! Welcome to ASR.

is there any workaround for it?

Buy a WiiM Ultra instead

It's one fifth the price and with better fuctionality it seems, as all physical inputs work with all physical outputs.

 

[showei]

Hi @showei! Welcome to ASR.


Buy a WiiM Ultra instead

It's one fifth the price and with better fuctionality it seems, as all physical inputs work with all physical outputs.

Do we have any comparison between Wiim and A8 here? I seems cannot find any and I'm a bit surprised giving how thorough this forum is

 

[staticV3]

Do we have any comparison between Wiim and A8 here?

We have reviews of both:

Eversolo DMP-A8 Balanced Streamer/DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Eversolo DMP-A8 balanced DAC, Streamer, HDMI ARC, and Analog/digital Preamplifier with DSP support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $1,980. The DMP-A8 is stylish and functional in every sense of the words. Running Android with a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Ultra network streamer, DAC, phono stage and preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $329. Physical attribute are modern and attractive enough. Alas, I can't say the same thing about the graphical interface. Icons seem...

www.audiosciencereview.com

However, these only analyze the Analog output performance under various circumstances, so won't be much use for using them as purely digital transports.

 

[showei]

We have reviews of both:

Eversolo DMP-A8 Balanced Streamer/DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Eversolo DMP-A8 balanced DAC, Streamer, HDMI ARC, and Analog/digital Preamplifier with DSP support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $1,980. The DMP-A8 is stylish and functional in every sense of the words. Running Android with a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Ultra network streamer, DAC, phono stage and preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $329. Physical attribute are modern and attractive enough. Alas, I can't say the same thing about the graphical interface. Icons seem...

www.audiosciencereview.com

However, these only analyze the Analog output performance under various circumstances, so won't be much use for using them as purely digital transports.

Thanks for the Wiim link! Digital transports is one option, I also have no problem to use the the preamp analog output from A8 as long as I don't lose any quality compared to G700 Preamp, I guess for this I have to try by myself once I receive it

 

[showei]

We have reviews of both:

Eversolo DMP-A8 Balanced Streamer/DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Eversolo DMP-A8 balanced DAC, Streamer, HDMI ARC, and Analog/digital Preamplifier with DSP support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $1,980. The DMP-A8 is stylish and functional in every sense of the words. Running Android with a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Ultra network streamer, DAC, phono stage and preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $329. Physical attribute are modern and attractive enough. Alas, I can't say the same thing about the graphical interface. Icons seem...

www.audiosciencereview.com

However, these only analyze the Analog output performance under various circumstances, so won't be much use for using them as purely digital transports.

Tried both A8 and Wiim Ultra, returned A8, Wiim USB output to G700, now there's no waste of the double DAC anymore thanks for the suggestion!

 

[solly]

HI Showei! A very interesting choice of kit and one that has been on my radar.
Couple of points here;
1. you don't need to use the DAC at all, you can go digital out from the DMP-A8 straight to the SU-G700. The SU-G700 takes PCM digital signals and converts them into PWM and then applies the power from the GaNFET's. This supposedly reduces noise from Analogue conversion because a digital signal has no noise. That said the PCM to PWM conversion does not appear to be noise free process. The Lyngdorf TDAI3400 and TDAI1120 and the NAD M32 all employed direct digital amplifiers where you could feed ditial signal sdirect into the amp. The review of the TDAI3400 is https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-lyngdorf-tdai-3400-amp-eq-part-1.6738/ this showed significant noise. Also the Peachtree GaN400 as well https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/peachtree-gan400-amplifier-review.42910/ The GaN400 showed significant noise although it did show superb power control see the piece right at the very end of the article
2. Have a look at Andrew Robinson's Youtube review about the Technics amps the 700 and 1000. He raved about it but said that the SUG1000 was clearly a better amp than the 700. I have the TDAI 3400 and that has the same specs as the SUG1000 and I had the TDAI 1120 which is similar to the SUG700. Whilst i think both sound superb the bigger amp has far better bass control and dynamics compared with its smaller sibling. I know that painful to hear because the price jump is not something most of us are going to be able to stomach.
3. If you are going to drive the SUG700 via a digital imput then save your money and use something as simple as a Bluesound Node (Peachtree actually offer the node and their GaN-1 as a package) That will set you back 1/3 of what the DMP-A8 costs. I am a pure digital guy so I have no vinyl so I could give a damn about analogue inputs.
4. The DMP-A8 does have some cool DSP features like PEQ, which is available on cheaper A6 too. The one thing that is better on the A8 is the ability to load FIR filters which can be used for room correction good video on how to do that here

I personally love room correction but other people hate it (hard core audiophiles) That may scare you because its hugely techy. But if you don't like that you can use Dirac in the Powernode 2024 and if you don't like that you can use Room Perfect in the Lyngdorf TDAI1120 or 3400.
As John Darko from Darko.audio says Room correction has the most impact after your speakers, more than amps, dacs, etc.
So plenty to think about....if you are not planning Room correct then just use the Bluesound Node and the digital input. Save your self $1000+

 

[showei]

HI Showei! A very interesting choice of kit and one that has been on my radar.
Couple of points here;
1. you don't need to use the DAC at all, you can go digital out from the DMP-A8 straight to the SU-G700. The SU-G700 takes PCM digital signals and converts them into PWM and then applies the power from the GaNFET's. This supposedly reduces noise from Analogue conversion because a digital signal has no noise. That said the PCM to PWM conversion does not appear to be noise free process. The Lyngdorf TDAI3400 and TDAI1120 and the NAD M32 all employed direct digital amplifiers where you could feed ditial signal sdirect into the amp. The review of the TDAI3400 is https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-lyngdorf-tdai-3400-amp-eq-part-1.6738/ this showed significant noise. Also the Peachtree GaN400 as well https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/peachtree-gan400-amplifier-review.42910/ The GaN400 showed significant noise although it did show superb power control see the piece right at the very end of the article
2. Have a look at Andrew Robinson's Youtube review about the Technics amps the 700 and 1000. He raved about it but said that the SUG1000 was clearly a better amp than the 700. I have the TDAI 3400 and that has the same specs as the SUG1000 and I had the TDAI 1120 which is similar to the SUG700. Whilst i think both sound superb the bigger amp has far better bass control and dynamics compared with its smaller sibling. I know that painful to hear because the price jump is not something most of us are going to be able to stomach.
3. If you are going to drive the SUG700 via a digital imput then save your money and use something as simple as a Bluesound Node (Peachtree actually offer the node and their GaN-1 as a package) That will set you back 1/3 of what the DMP-A8 costs. I am a pure digital guy so I have no vinyl so I could give a damn about analogue inputs.
4. The DMP-A8 does have some cool DSP features like PEQ, which is available on cheaper A6 too. The one thing that is better on the A8 is the ability to load FIR filters which can be used for room correction good video on how to do that here

I personally love room correction but other people hate it (hard core audiophiles) That may scare you because its hugely techy. But if you don't like that you can use Dirac in the Powernode 2024 and if you don't like that you can use Room Perfect in the Lyngdorf TDAI1120 or 3400.
As John Darko from Darko.audio says Room correction has the most impact after your speakers, more than amps, dacs, etc.
So plenty to think about....if you are not planning Room correct then just use the Bluesound Node and the digital input. Save your self $1000+

Thanks Solly for your thorough suggestions. I'm also a full digital guy, the reason for picking g700 is also for it's "full digital" amplifying approach too bad it does not have a streamer and Arc integrated. One thing I want to point out is that all Eversolo streamers cannot use digital outputs together with their digital inputs therefore there's no way to skip it's DAC and preamp part of you want to use USB and ARC inputs like my use case.

 

[solly]

Interesting I was not aware of this limitation but then again manufacturers are often poor at exposing the limitations of their tech. So can you just clarify for me. Are you saying I cannot run ARC or eARC inputs and pass them to digital outputs? That seems such a crazy limitation???

 

[solly]

Showei at this rate I will just stick with my TDAI3400 because every other combination has some form of limitation!!

 

[showei]

Interesting I was not aware of this limitation but then again manufacturers are often poor at exposing the limitations of their tech. So can you just clarify for me. Are you saying I cannot run ARC or eARC inputs and pass them to digital outputs? That seems such a crazy limitation???

Exactly right? You can find in their manual for details, I also personally tried, once you select digital inputs all digital outputs options are disabled except the I2S, which G700 does not support.

 

[solly]

unbelievable! Well a quick google advises me there are plenty of options for converting TOSLINK or HDMI to RCA WHilst they may not be pretty they definitley work. It seems ironic you spend £000's on a system then rely on a $15 HDMI to RCA converter.
Or the other option is you stick with a traditional analgoue out and mate the eversolo with a standard analogue amplifier. I appreciate that may frustrate you (It does me!) BUT there are a lot to be said for good old analogue amps. The tech is extremely well understood and has had decades to evolve. Digital amps are by contrast a lot newer and lack the decades of evolution and refinement. For a very reasonable £1500-2000 you can by some amazing Eigentakt Purifi amplifiers from Nord Amplifiers (there are plenty of other small amplifier makers around the world). For example Nord Accoustics 1ET7040SA dual mono amplifiers. This is a beast and will deliver 250W into 8 and 500W into 4 ohms.

If you look at Amir's tests you can see that the results from other Nord Kit is excellent. Its basically the reference design from Purifi.

My key findings
1. Room correction will have significantly more impact than anything else. The blue line is the affect of using room perfect. The brown line is no room correction. the difference is literally night and day. One sounds rich and full bodied the other is thin.
2. a more pwerful amp will have tighter sounding bass simply because it controls the cone better and stops and starts it more precisely. You can also turn the amp up to a much higher level before (or if) distortion kicks in, again because even at higher output the amp still has enough room to control the cone. Amir did show in his tests that Peachtree GaN400 was capable of some brutal signals that would have caused problems for other amps. Whether he has tried the same tests on analogue amps I don't know and it would be worth asking? The GaN 400 is ridiculously powerful so if any amp could take brutal punishment it would be that one. That said they have discontinued and the only current replacement is the GaN-1.

 

[solly]

Exactly right? You can find in their manual for details, I also personally tried, once you select digital inputs all digital outputs options are disabled except the I2S, which G700 does not support.

Showei there is a I2S to SPDIF converter cable. The question now is whether the SPDIF interface on the DMP-A8 supports the correct pin outs to enable this. I will put a tech support ticket into Eversolo and sif if they can confirm if the I2S interface supports this!!! Very excited, we may have found the mythical beast!
i2s to spdif article
OK just checked and the next got ya is that DSP is only supported on analogue outputs! Shoot me! That still means I could go for the analogue amplifier solution, just disappointing that these options haven't been thought through. I am now tempted to cancel my order. I feel like I am wasting my time and energy chasing a mythical beast. Maybe I should just buy a minidsp SHD studio and admit defeat!