New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

[AryaStealth]

solderdude, could you please suggest some EQ settings for the new version that should emulate your passive filter (if you already made one)?

I bought my 560s in March 2023, and the Harman 2018 EQ profiles that were created for the first generation/version do more harm than good, including the settings suggested above to modify Oratory's EQ (2 High Shelf and 1 Low Shelf), so at the moment I listen to them without EQ.

 

[solderdude]

I can't, with a clear conscience, because there seems to be a higher production spread than before, judging on the number of measurements now and in the past.
This number is too small to make an educated guess. So when the goal is to create an EQ to comply to specific standard(s) and target(s) only there is no single EQ.

Up to 1kHz nothing seems to have changed. I don't use EQ there anyway.
In all cases the 5kHz range needs some lowering (as with HD58X and HD660S)
How many dB that should be is headphone dependent due to production spread/manufacturing tolerances and, alas, also HRTF related.
At around 6kHz there also is a HRTF part meaning that some people may prefer a bit less and others may want a little more.

I would suggest to just 'play' with the 6kHz 'slider' and may have to set it between -2dB to -5dB range and listen to what sounds most natural to you.
Giving an advice to just EQ it to some measurement standard is what is usually done but.... research shows not all ears comply to that measurement standards and the 5-8kHz range falls in that region so adjusting to taste is probably the best way to tackle this.

 

[Robbo99999]

solderdude, could you please suggest some EQ settings for the new version that should emulate your passive filter (if you already made one)?

I bought my 560s in March 2023, and the Harman 2018 EQ profiles that were created for the first generation/version do more harm than good, including the settings suggested above to modify Oratory's EQ (2 High Shelf and 1 Low Shelf), so at the moment I listen to them without EQ.

Give the EQ settings a go in the following post if you like, they're in the first graph, add those to the existing Oratory EQ:

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

I have reason to believe it is not only different pads. One of the reasons is swapping pads between old and new and the Poyatu pads. One thing is clear... the sound did change. The new one sounds good with just a little 5kHz reduction (just like HD58X and HD660S needs) I would not trust...

www.audiosciencereview.com

HSQ means High Shelf Filter, PK means Peak Filter (there's one High Shelf Filter & 2 Peak Filters in that EQ). I would bet most of the New Version HD560s are going to be darker than the Old Version, even if there might be increased production spread in the New Version models.....so I would expect my EQ there would improve most New Version HD560s when combined with an Oratory EQ.

 

[musicadi]

Hi everyone,

I found this thread because I just bought a pair of 560S and noticed the cable was different than what I saw in pictures and read in reviews.

Now, one thing that no one seems to have noticed is that Sennheiser is marketing the frequency range as 6 Hz - 38 kHz, but on the box of my pair this is 12 Hz - 38 kHz. So, what's up with this?

Btw, the details about the cable lenght and the adapter seem to have been changed already on their website.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hi everyone,

I found this thread because I just bought a pair of 560S and noticed the cable was different than what I saw in pictures and read in reviews.

Now, one thing that no one seems to have noticed is that Sennheiser is marketing the frequency range as 6 Hz - 38 kHz, but on the box of my pair this is 12 Hz - 38 kHz. So, what's up with this?

Btw, the details about the cable lenght and the adapter seem to have been changed already on their website.

I've got 3 units of the Old Version & 1 unit of New Version and they all have 12Hz-38kHz written on the box - so no change between Old & New Versions on that aspect, but I can't comment on the fact that it does indeed say on the website that it's 6Hz - 38kHz. I don't know what it used to say on the website a couple years ago, I mean I don't know if it used to say 12Hz - 38kHz on the website a few years ago or not. The New Version is a little better extended than the Old Version in the bass so you could almost imagine that this might be the difference between 6Hz & 12Hz in the specs, but I can't be sure that this is the reason for the 6Hz listed on the website now - it may well have said 6Hz on the website a couple years ago?

 

[asrUser]

I suppose you can't buy the old HD560S revision in complete new condition. Then I'd need to search for used HD560S with old revision. The next question is what new pads to buy for old revision? As I understand the old version pads should be harder.

 

[Phorize]

I suppose you can't buy the old HD560S revision in complete new condition. Then I'd need to search for used HD560S with old revision. The next question is what new pads to buy for old revision? As I understand the old version pads should be harder.

Is there a reason why you'd want to? Generally the new version is a slight improvement for the majority of people, myself included.

 

[asrUser]

Is there a reason why you'd want to? Generally the new version is a slight improvement for the majority of people, myself included.

They got more space for ears because of harder pads.

 

[Robbo99999]

They got more space for ears because of harder pads.

That is definitely true! I have to spend more time finely arranging the headphone on my head when using the New Version to minimise ear touching, but it's a lot quicker & easier with the Old Version and I can with Old Version position it so none of my ear is touching, but that's not quite the case with New Version (some light ear touching).

As to your other question about what earpads to use with Old Version if you have to buy some, that's a good question. I'm assuming that any bought through Sennheiser will be the new softer earpads. If that's the case then I'd imagine the Old Version headphone combined with the New Version Ear Pads would produce maybe roughly half or more of the correction that my New Version to Old Version EQ makes. Solderdude measured the effect of the new earpads (in this thread), and if I remember rightly the earpads account for most of the difference. So ballpark if I was using Old Version headphone with New Version pads I'd probably just multiply the dB figures in New Version to Old Version EQ by 0.75 - so that would basically be saying new version earpads account for 75% of the change, but this is very ballpark and doesn't take into account that each of the components (earpad & driver & mesh) will effect different areas of the frequency response, not just equally throughout the frequency range.

Actually thinking about it, given all the hassle of process I'm talking about in the above paragraph, I'm thinking any new users are better off buying the New Version of the headphone and using my New Version to Old Version EQ combined with the Oratory EQ rather than creating a "mongrel headphone" that is the Old Version headphone with the New Version earpads. Plus if a person was keeping their HD560s for a long time, then any replacement pads I'm supposing are only going to be the new version earpads, so buying the Old Version headphone only gets you the benefit of increased ear space for as long as that one set of pads last, and then after that you have to turn it into the "mongrel headphone" I mentioned!

 

[asrUser]

Actually thinking about it, given all the hassle of process I'm talking about in the above paragraph, I'm thinking any new users are better off buying the New Version of the headphone and using my New Version to Old Version EQ combined with the Oratory EQ rather than creating a "mongrel headphone" that is the Old Version headphone with the New Version earpads. Plus if a person was keeping their HD560s for a long time, then any replacement pads I'm supposing are only going to be the new version earpads, so buying the Old Version headphone only gets you the benefit of increased ear space for as long as that one set of pads last, and then after that you have to turn it into the "mongrel headphone" I mentioned!

I want to kick Sennheiser in the ass for ditching the former version and also because HD800 headband is too unflexible and not really comfortable.

 

[Robbo99999]

I want to kick Sennheiser in the ass for ditching the former version and also because HD800 headband is too unflexible and not really comfortable.

Yeah, I'm kinda in two minds in my reaction to the stealth changes they've made to the HD560s. Firstly I'm not a fan of stealth changes to products as it invalidates EQ's and people are not knowing what they're getting unless the stealth changes are measured (which is what me & solderdude have done). But conversely, I think the New Version sounds better at stock when compared to the Old Version at stock, so it's a better sounding headphone when no EQ is going to be used, which is arguably the vast majority of people that will end up buying the HD560s unless they're Oratory/ASR followers. I actually enjoy the fact that I can use the New Version HD560s without EQ, but I still dislike stealth changes - I'm conflicted in how I feel towards Sennheiser for this move they made - on balance they're probably improving everyone's experience given most people won't be using EQ. I have to end on saying that I don't condone stealth changes, it's another level of complication for the headphone enthusiast that is using measurements & EQ's.

 

[Robbo99999]

Is there a reason why you'd want to? Generally the new version is a slight improvement for the majority of people, myself included.

Have you got both then? Do you tend to use them without EQ? If you do use with EQ did you try out my New Version to Old Version EQ (which you'd use when using the New Version headphone) to then combine with Oratory's EQ?

 

[Phorize]

Have you got both then? Do you tend to use them without EQ? If you do use with EQ did you try out my New Version to Old Version EQ (which you'd use when using the New Version headphone) to then combine with Oratory's EQ?

I own the later version but have listened to the older one a few times. I use the new one without eq as I find it's fine without it and I tend to use it whilst moving round the house. I have an hd6xx which I mainly use at my desk, as I find them slightly more comfortable. I'm on leave from work next week so will have a play with your eq suggestions.

 

[StellarPhenoma]

Give the EQ settings a go in the following post if you like, they're in the first graph, add those to the existing Oratory EQ:

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

I have reason to believe it is not only different pads. One of the reasons is swapping pads between old and new and the Poyatu pads. One thing is clear... the sound did change. The new one sounds good with just a little 5kHz reduction (just like HD58X and HD660S needs) I would not trust...

www.audiosciencereview.com

HSQ means High Shelf Filter, PK means Peak Filter (there's one High Shelf Filter & 2 Peak Filters in that EQ). I would bet most of the New Version HD560s are going to be darker than the Old Version, even if there might be increased production spread in the New Version models.....so I would expect my EQ there would improve most New Version HD560s when combined with an Oratory EQ.

Hey man, thank you for doing all of this work.

I just want to make sure I am applying the EQ correctly here, as I am using Equalizer APO with the Peace frontend, and I am still quite a beginner in... All of this. Attaching a picture of my settings - started with an imported oratory1990 preset, then slapped your settings on top of it since there were 3 extra bands available to set here.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hey man, thank you for doing all of this work.

I just want to make sure I am applying the EQ correctly here, as I am using Equalizer APO with the Peace frontend, and I am still quite a beginner in... All of this. Attaching a picture of my settings - started with an imported oratory1990 preset, then slapped your settings on top of it since there were 3 extra bands available to set here.

Hi, so the filters that you're using from me are the 3 correct ones, so they're ok, but your Oratory EQ for the HD560s is nothing like what Oratory has on his reddit website, so I'd advise you to use his pdf here which is the latest version:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Then of course you'd put my 3 filters on top of that, which is the part you got right in the EQ you showed me anyway.

 

[Mr Swing King]

I recently bought this headphone for the second time…or so I thought.
What puzzled me from the get-go was how much more linear it sounded to my ears vs the one I’d sold off. Cue the internet informing me about this new version and the recent update in tuning.
I then came across a Black Friday offer on the HD400 Pro which I remembered to be the original HD560S only in matte black with an extra cable…and couldn’t quite fight the urge to do a real a/b listening for myself.
Well as soon as the HD400 Pro/original HD560S was plugged into my amp, I remembered why I sold it off in the first place: the in-ya-face aggressive nature of the uppermids. Truly sounds like Sennheiser’s take on the AKG’s of old (K701/702/612) with that elevated presence range.
It is however a little tricky as this facet of the sound doesn’t show up on any frequency responses…well other than Solderdude’s original HD560S review, where he’s drawn a green line to represent the true tuning.
This new HD560S looks poorer on paper yes…but I think most people miss the angled driver design and what it does when interacting with the human pinna.
To me the new version sounds so much better than the old. It’s not an AKG with subbass anymore, but an actual Sennie. To me it sounds more like an exciting HD600 with better bass and subbass abilities.

 

[Robbo99999]

I recently bought this headphone for the second time…or so I thought.
What puzzled me from the get-go was how much more linear it sounded to my ears vs the one I’d sold off. Cue the internet informing me about this new version and the recent update in tuning.
I then came across a Black Friday offer on the HD400 Pro which I remembered to be the original HD560S only in matte black with an extra cable…and couldn’t quite fight the urge to do a real a/b listening for myself.
Well as soon as the HD400 Pro/original HD560S was plugged into my amp, I remembered why I sold it off in the first place: the in-ya-face aggressive nature of the uppermids. Truly sounds like Sennheiser’s take on the AKG’s of old (K701/702/612) with that elevated presence range.
It is however a little tricky as this facet of the sound doesn’t show up on any frequency responses…well other than Solderdude’s original HD560S review, where he’s drawn a green line to represent the true tuning.
This new HD560S looks poorer on paper yes…but I think most people miss the angled driver design and what it does when interacting with the human pinna.
To me the new version sounds so much better than the old. It’s not an AKG with subbass anymore, but an actual Sennie. To me it sounds more like an exciting HD600 with better bass and subbass abilities.

Even the old HD560s was nothing like the K702, I have both. So in your listening you found that the HD400 Pro sounded more like the old version of the HD560s rather than the new version? That's interesting, I'd kinda think that both the HD400 Pro and New Version of the HD560s would be the same as you'd think all the changes they made for the New Version HD560s would be carried over into the HD400 Pro - maybe that's not the case, we'd have to measure it to be sure though.

I'm not sure you can say that the new version HD560s is poorer on paper, I haven't seen any evidence of that in the measurements, in fact the new version HD560s sounds better than the old version if you're gonna be using both without EQ. Following is Oratory's measurement of HD560s which is likely mostly based on the Old Version, and also following is the average of my 2 units of New Version converted to a GRAS measurement (which is really just assuming that my 3 units of old version HD560s measures close to Oratory's graph, so has to be taken with a pinch of salt), but I don't really think you can say one is better than the other from the following graphs for instance (but note Oratory's graph is using more smoothing when comparing):

Oratory's (Old Version)


My 2 units of New Version Average:


(Well you could argue that the New Version has better measurements because the bass is better extended and in greater quantity, whilst also having the "annoying for some 4.5kHz" peak reduced.)

 

[Mr Swing King]

It was pretty obvious that the HD400 Pro was tuned like the old HD560S to these ears…well to my buddy’s as well but again that’s two anecdotal stories that don’t really help you out. I a/b’ed with my 560 (with new pads) and the 400 was decisively more forward in the presence region.
I didn’t say they sounded identical, but to me the old HD560S/HD400 Pro feel like Sennheiser’s take on the old AKGs ie big boost in the presence region.

But you’re perfectly right; it would indeed feel way more logic that all of this happened like you say…but I think the new HD560S was retuned because it didn’t make sense to have two identical sounding headphones for sale at different prices.

 

[Robbo99999]

It was pretty obvious that the HD400 Pro was tuned like the old HD560S to these ears…well to my buddy’s as well but again that’s two anecdotal stories that don’t really help you out. I a/b’ed with my 560 (with new pads) and the 400 was decisively more forward in the presence region.
I didn’t say they sounded identical, but to me the old HD560S/HD400 Pro feel like Sennheiser’s take on the old AKGs ie big boost in the presence region.

But you’re perfectly right; it would indeed feel way more logic that all of this happened like you say…but I think the new HD560S was retuned because it didn’t make sense to have two identical sounding headphones for sale at different prices.

Interesting, well it's good to have your listening experience take on it. Praps @solderdude will get his hands on an HD400Pro sometime to see if they've decided to keep that one same as it always was (ie the original old version HD560s). Even though I've measured 3 units of the Old Version & 2 units of the New Version of the HD560s I can't justify buying an HD400 Pro just to check if it aligns with the Old or New Version HD560s - I'm done buying HD560s headphones, not because I don't like them, I think they're a very good headphone, but it's crazy to spend so much money on the same headphone, lol!

 

[StellarPhenoma]

Hi, so the filters that you're using from me are the 3 correct ones, so they're ok, but your Oratory EQ for the HD560s is nothing like what Oratory has on his reddit website, so I'd advise you to use his pdf here which is the latest version:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Then of course you'd put my 3 filters on top of that, which is the part you got right in the EQ you showed me anyway.

Hey again! I used the AutoEQ import tool available in EqualizerAPO w/ the Peace UI - looks like it is quite jank. Here is attempt #2! I hope I got this right this time!

Should I move your settings to the front bands (1, 2, 3), or leave oratory1990's settings as bands 1-10? Does that make a difference in equalization?