New(used) speaker indecision - bryston, BW, kef

[locoliberty]

Indecisions on some local used speakers, probly dont even need to be looking but here I am after selling some unused gear. All 3 options are give or take a couple hundred bucks from each-other.

I seem to have found a few measurements out there, but from different reviewers. so that adds some salt, and variation. The speakers will be in a medium sized room, approximately 15x23', with a 8' open basement ceiling.

open to comments and roasting

Bryston Model T - https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...ston-model-t-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153
last gen BW(S2 model) - https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-702-s2-loudspeaker-measurements
R11 measurements - https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

 

[AnalogSteph]

last gen BW(S2 model) - https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-702-s2-loudspeaker-measurements

Here are some measurements for the smaller 703 S3:

B&W 703 S3 Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report The 'voicing' of this latest 703 floorstander has at least been inspired by developments seen in both the D3 and D4 iterations of B&W's 800 series [HFN Oct '16 and Nov '21]. The forward response trend [see Graph 1] shows a familiar series of peaks (and troughs) at ~1.2kHz and ~3.5kHz...

www.hifinews.com

Goodness gracious. Bit of a rollercoaster right there. Which would confirm my preconceived notion that B&W since about the mid-2000s are best avoided.

The Bryston looks decent as far as horizontal dispersion goes, but the presence of dual tweeters and dual midranges makes me suspect that the vertical may be a bit of a dog's breakfast. At least mid-tweeter XO seems to be reasonably low at 2.3 kHz (and the low-mid XO at 160 Hz almost makes the bass section a subwoofer), so they did try, but the design is a compromise towards level handling. I do not doubt that these can hit the levels advertised, the question is whether you need that. What is your listening distance going to be?

IMHO:
1. KEF (good)
2. Bryston (maybe, especially if you need it loud)
3. B&W (rather not)

 

[locoliberty]

Here are some measurements for the smaller 703 S3:

B&W 703 S3 Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report The 'voicing' of this latest 703 floorstander has at least been inspired by developments seen in both the D3 and D4 iterations of B&W's 800 series [HFN Oct '16 and Nov '21]. The forward response trend [see Graph 1] shows a familiar series of peaks (and troughs) at ~1.2kHz and ~3.5kHz...

www.hifinews.com

Goodness gracious. Bit of a rollercoaster right there. Which would confirm my preconceived notion that B&W since about the mid-2000s are best avoided.

The Bryston looks decent as far as horizontal dispersion goes, but the presence of dual tweeters and dual midranges makes me suspect that the vertical may be a bit of a dog's breakfast. At least mid-tweeter XO seems to be reasonably low at 2.3 kHz (and the low-mid XO at 160 Hz almost makes the bass section a subwoofer), so they did try, but the design is a compromise towards level handling. I do not doubt that these can hit the levels advertised, the question is whether you need that. What is your listening distance going to be?

IMHO:
1. KEF (good)
2. Bryston (maybe, especially if you need it loud)
3. B&W (rather not)

For listening distance.. well.. maybe I should have designed the room differently, but ill be around 8.5-9ft I think. Ill be using the room long ways, so sitting position will be front 1/3-ish line. Maybe I should move to the 2/3 line, but I think front section is what ive read is recommended.

 

[locoliberty]

The room. in progress

 

[AnalogSteph]

For listening distance.. well.. maybe I should have designed the room differently, but ill be around 8.5-9ft I think.

So pretty standard "hi-fi distance" then.

BTW, you can expect your present Studio 590s to put up a pretty good fight. While something like the R11s should still be a worthwhile upgrade in terms of refinement, the JBLs are nothing to sneeze at despite a few rough edges.

 

[locoliberty]

So pretty standard "hi-fi distance" then.

BTW, you can expect your present Studio 590s to put up a pretty good fight. While something like the R11s should still be a worthwhile upgrade in terms of refinement, the JBLs are nothing to sneeze at despite a few rough edges.

yes but ive death spiraled from looking at speakers for the living room once equipment moves to this finished basement room. To instead buying something expensive down here. I cant possible turn back now /sarcasm

 

[locoliberty]

Is the meta r11 worth the extra coin?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Is the meta r11 worth the extra coin?

How much(ish) are we talking for both options?

 

[locoliberty]

How much(ish) are we talking for both options?

Refurb units are 3500usd a pair for r11. And 4800usd a pair for r11 meta.

 

[EdW]

Refurb units are 3500usd a pair for r11. And 4800usd a pair for r11 meta.

@amirm reviewed the r11 meta and gave very favourable comments

KEF R11 Meta Tower Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the KEF R11 Meta floorstanding speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $3250 each. The R11 Meta is gorgeous looking with high gloss finish and cabinet that has been shrunk as much as possible to basically hug the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So if can stretch to $4800 it could very worthwhile. See if you can get a demo,

 

[alex-z]

Refurb units are 3500usd a pair for r11. And 4800usd a pair for r11 meta.

Definitely not worth $1300 extra. The original R11 are already excellent speakers, spend that saved money on good subwoofers, or acoustic treatment for your room. Even just filling the ceiling cavity with mineral wool and covering with a durable fabric will make a huge difference in bass + mid-range quality.

I outright wouldn't consider the B&W 702 S3, all of their speakers I have heard or seen measured are in desperate need of a properly designed crossover.

The Bryston Model T flies in the face of basic speaker design. Having 2 tweeters and mid-range drivers kills the vertical directivity. They could have achieved the same dynamic range by using a single 29-34mm tweeter + waveguide.

 

[digitalfrost]

I would choose the KEFs for the good measurements and the good looks. I don't like how the Brystons look, like 2 tweeters and 2 midranges? B&W is out of the question for their intentional sounding.

 

[DSJR]

The room. in progressView attachment 438551

I'd almost want the speakers firing across that space and well away from corners. Is that how you intend to use them?

 

[locoliberty]

I'd almost want the speakers firing across that space and well away from corners. Is that how you intend to use them?

It is. TV and speakers on the black wall, equipment in the cut out by the door(there is trim to hide cables and a hole in the wall to run cables around about, there is a rack that will slide in). probly some nice shelves and panels on the back wall. plywood gives spikes something to grab under the carpet instead of concrete. Basement design kind of limited me to options.

 

[DSJR]

It is. TV and speakers on the black wall, equipment in the cut out by the door(there is trim to hide cables and a hole in the wall to run cables around about, there is a rack that will slide in). probly some nice shelves and panels on the back wall. plywood gives spikes something to grab under the carpet instead of concrete. Basement design kind of limited me to options.

I meant placing the speakers along the wall with the windows, rather than firing down the length of the room from the black wall which, if my eyes or the camera aren't playing tricks on me, may cause more bass issues as you move back and forth. The ceiling looks to be slanted as well which if so, also (to me) favours the speakers on the 'window wall.'

Only you can discover if the above, makes any sense at all, of course

 

[locoliberty]

I meant placing the speakers along the wall with the windows, rather than firing down the length of the room from the black wall which, if my eyes or the camera aren't playing tricks on me, may cause more bass issues as you move back and forth. The ceiling looks to be slanted as well which if so, also (to me) favours the speakers on the 'window wall.'

Only you can discover if the above, makes any sense at all, of course

The ceiling is level, its just lens distortion or how i was holding the camera. thats the trusses for my first floor haha

I did think about running things long ways as you mentioned, but it would have been weird in the end with blocking off access to the mechanical/storage space that the door leads too. Slight compromise I guess.

 

[DSJR]

The ceiling is level, its just lens distortion or how i was holding the camera. thats the trusses for my first floor haha

I did think about running things long ways as you mentioned, but it would have been weird in the end with blocking off access to the mechanical/storage space that the door leads too. Slight compromise I guess.

Ah, okay. In that case and irrespective of the speakers you end up with, may I please suggest trying them a foot or two (oh alright, half a metre or so!) from the black wall if at all possible

 

[locoliberty]

Ah, okay. In that case and irrespective of the speakers you end up with, may I please suggest trying them a foot or two (oh alright, half a metre or so!) from the black wall if at all possible

Already the plan! Ive got 40"(~1meter) from the wall to the front edge of the plywood thats dedicated for speaker and subwoofer placement

 

[locoliberty]

What a resounding answer here. haha

 

[EdW]

Ah, okay. In that case and irrespective of the speakers you end up with, may I please suggest trying them a foot or two (oh alright, half a metre or so!) from the black wall if at all possible

The very expensive reference series KEF definitely have better bass extension when tested in free space (Klippel etc) but this means the speakers will sound best a few feet from the wall and if well executed, which the Ref series are, will be very good. The bass shelf on the standard R series can be largely compensated by placing n the speakers a little closer to the wall and allowing some port reinforcement according to some folks.. I think this would need quite a careful work with REW to get right though.