New Turntables - AT-LP8X, DP3000NE, SL-1300GK, and others

[Travis]

So, after watching the deep dive video on the 1300G, I decided I would test drive it. Turns out Music Direct has stock of both colors and at least as of a few minutes ago are honoring a coupon code of "WELCOME15" for 15 percent off. With a 60 day return period, I will be able to determine if it is a good choice for a "final" turntable. New turntable on the way!

Looking forward to thoughts on the build, process with MD.

Did you order it with a cartridge? If so will they pre-mount and align? (Sorry if you already covered this).

 

[Travis]

Technics arrived today - surprised Chicago to Florida so quickly! Setup went uneventfully. I did not use the overhang gage, but used the Clearaudio tool set for the IEC standard. Pivot to spindle distance is 215 mm. AT VM95SH on HS6 currently playing some Gene Ammons Boss Tenor. Sounds real nice at first play. The arm is not as nice as my Sorane SA-1.2 in some ways but nicer in other ways. The package is well integrated and the motor drive is a shining star. At the moment it seems to be a keeper, but I have 60 days to be sure.

View attachment 453391

Disregard my post immediately above this one. I didn’t hit send and cross-posted. You got it!

 

[mike70]

In all my Technics I always set the overhang with the brand recommended "method" ... stylus at 52mm from the headshell end.
I use a caliper for that, and it sounds perfect.

I'm curious about the waxwing azimuth setting, if you search for literature about setting the azimuth, everything"s wrong or right depending on the source . It's a mess.

Fozgometer yes / no, the mirror yes / no, voltmeter with left / right channel yes / no ... the waxwing function seems to be good.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Looking forward to thoughts on the build, process with MD.

Did you order it with a cartridge? If so will they pre-mount and align? (Sorry if you already covered this).

I ordered from Music Direct on their site - without direct interaction with anyone in sales. As far as pre-mounted and aligned cartridges go, in my experience they are never correct. After seeing the deep dive video at Skyfi, I perused their site and if they follow through on their setup claims, that should be fine.

 

[Bob from Florida]

In all my Technics I always set the overhang with the brand recommended "method" ... stylus at 52mm from the headshell end.
I use a caliper for that, and it sounds perfect.

I'm curious about the waxwing azimuth setting, if you search for literature about setting the azimuth, everything"s wrong or right depending on the source . It's a mess.

Fozgometer yes / no, the mirror yes / no, voltmeter with left / right channel yes / no ... the waxwing function seems to be good.

I would have used their overhang gage if I didn’t already have the Clearaudio tool. I should check sometime to see if the Technics overhang gauge agrees with the IEC 60.325 mm inner groove radius. Not that it matters a lot, getting the stylus square with anything more exotic than the spherical profile matters more than moving the null points around.

I have not got around to playing with the Waxwing’s azimuth feature - it should be helpful. Not all of my headshells have that adjustment and if the stylus was rotated enough to cause imbalances, I would just get another one.

 

[EJ3]

I would have used their overhang gage if I didn’t already have the Clearaudio tool. I should check sometime to see if the Technics overhang gauge agrees with the IEC 60.325 mm inner groove radius. Not that it matters a lot, getting the stylus square with anything more exotic than the spherical profile matters more than moving the null points around.

I have not got around to playing with the Waxwing’s azimuth feature - it should be helpful. Not all of my headshells have that adjustment and if the stylus was rotated enough to cause imbalances, I would just get another one.

I have to make these choices with my DUAL 1229.
But my Technics SL-M3 uses linear tracking and the specifically designed to be user-friendly, T4P cartridge makes changing and setting-up a phono cartridge very simple, easy and straightforward.
I like the simplicity very much.

It takes only two steps: (1) plug and (2) screw. That's it.
I believe that part of the dip in record sales (not that it wouldn't have dipped, it most certainly would have, but I think that it would not have dipped as much as it did [which also would have made records less expensive today, as more production facilities would have been maintained]) was due to the hassles of setting up the carts correctly:
Now why is P-MOUNT desirable? Most users simply want to play and listen to records. To them a turntable is simply a means to an end. The half-inch mount turntable requires several steps to install the cartridge and several other steps to balance and align the cartridge. Balancing and aligning a cartridge are required for optimal tracking, groove retrieval and sound quality.
The P-MOUNT design simplifies cartridge installation and eliminates the need for cartridge alignment, balancing, and setting the correct tracking force.
Personally I wish that this method had become more prevalent than it is these days.
Not eliminating the half-inch mount (many like it well enough) but as a larger % of availability than now.

 

[dlaloum]

I have to make these choices with my DUAL 1229.
But my Technics SL-M3 uses linear tracking and the specifically designed to be user-friendly, T4P cartridge makes changing and setting-up a phono cartridge very simple, easy and straightforward.
I like the simplicity very much.

It takes only two steps: (1) plug and (2) screw. That's it.
I believe that part of the dip in record sales (not that it wouldn't have dipped, it most certainly would have, but I think that it would not have dipped as much as it did [which also would have made records less expensive today, as more production facilities would have been maintained]) was due to the hassles of setting up the carts correctly:
Now why is P-MOUNT desirable? Most users simply want to play and listen to records. To them a turntable is simply a means to an end. The half-inch mount turntable requires several steps to install the cartridge and several other steps to balance and align the cartridge. Balancing and aligning a cartridge are required for optimal tracking, groove retrieval and sound quality.
The P-MOUNT design simplifies cartridge installation and eliminates the need for cartridge alignment, balancing, and setting the correct tracking force.
Personally I wish that this method had become more prevalent than it is these days.
Not eliminating the half-inch mount (many like it well enough) but as a larger % of availability than now.

You can still get adapters for p-mount on 1/2".... which can then allow for quick and easy cartridge swaps ( or you can have a library of headshells)

 

[DSJR]

I would not call it an improvement - more like two parallel paths.

The mk2 turntables had two seperate series, the 1200 was (mostly) marketed to DJ's - with a very solid plinth made of vibration absorbing damped material - very good at absorbing higher frequency vibrations and avoiding feedback, for nightclub use.
The 1600's were marketed to Audiophiles, on a sprung suspended base, with auto return, and even disc changer models (from memory) - they had the same base arm and motor though - and you can as a result fit the same upgrades/accessories.
The sprung base gave it much superior isolation from things like footfall, but less damping for higher frequency feedback (which is less of an issue in a home / audiophile situation)

Sorry to dive in without reading subsequent posts, but Technics in th emid to late 70s, seemed to change models annually and it became difficult to keep up for a while. 1300, 1600, 1300mk2, 1350 and so on. The 1400/1500/1600 with sprung under-tray were very good indeed, but I've also had amazing results with the earlier solid plinth 1500, simply by updating the headshell, adding a cork mat on top of the stock rubber one (initially to correct VTA) and removing the lid when playing. The UK had gone into springy belt drives by the launch of the 1200mk2 and it bubbled along in the DJ market until Ken Kessler tried one with a Lyra MC pickup in a late 90s (I think) HiFi News and was surprised how good it actually was. In the early noughties, a 'Gold' 1200mk2 could be boight here for around £600 and I seem to recall the stock one was five hundred or maybe a little less, but only from chain stores as the independent dealers didn't/couldn't get them and promoted Rega and/or ProJect instead...

Don't knock well designed auto mechs please - I love my Dual 701 (which has a lively but capable tonearm) - Dual's mechanisms were very gentle indeed, very quiet in this 701 and non-intrusive to tonearm performance (I have five assorted Dual models and they're all good, if delicate). Having auto return or at least auto lift at side end, is so handy...

 

[DSJR]

I have to make these choices with my DUAL 1229.
But my Technics SL-M3 uses linear tracking and the specifically designed to be user-friendly, T4P cartridge makes changing and setting-up a phono cartridge very simple, easy and straightforward.
I like the simplicity very much.

It takes only two steps: (1) plug and (2) screw. That's it.
I believe that part of the dip in record sales (not that it wouldn't have dipped, it most certainly would have, but I think that it would not have dipped as much as it did [which also would have made records less expensive today, as more production facilities would have been maintained]) was due to the hassles of setting up the carts correctly:
Now why is P-MOUNT desirable? Most users simply want to play and listen to records. To them a turntable is simply a means to an end. The half-inch mount turntable requires several steps to install the cartridge and several other steps to balance and align the cartridge. Balancing and aligning a cartridge are required for optimal tracking, groove retrieval and sound quality.
The P-MOUNT design simplifies cartridge installation and eliminates the need for cartridge alignment, balancing, and setting the correct tracking force.
Personally I wish that this method had become more prevalent than it is these days.
Not eliminating the half-inch mount (many like it well enough) but as a larger % of availability than now.

The Dual arms seem to have geometry set similar to the Technics, with inner null point just under 60mm from disc centre (around 58mm from memory). Setting to Stevenson 65mm is from memory 2mm forwards in the cartridge carrier slots. Once I realised my mistake and after using the proper Dual gauge, I realised my error and resetting the distance from centre, the many cartridges I have set up in the TK carriers seem pretty much centre in the slots. I apologise for steering away from the AT deck...

 

[EJ3]

You can still get adapters for p-mount on 1/2".... which can then allow for quick and easy cartridge swaps ( or you can have a library of headshells)

I can just change the styluses on the DUAL & the SL-M3.
Back in the day, I figured out what I liked (SHURE V15 type IV & V and the top of the line SHURE T4P's (and sometimes a Technics P-33 or Grado P-Mount Gold3.)
I have no need or interest in others & I have enough NOS styluses to last my lifetime.

 

[EJ3]

The Dual arms seem to have geometry set similar to the Technics, with inner null point just under 60mm from disc centre (around 58mm from memory). Setting to Stevenson 65mm is from memory 2mm forwards in the cartridge carrier slots. Once I realised my mistake and after using the proper Dual gauge, I realised my error and resetting the distance from centre, the many cartridges I have set up in the TK carriers seem pretty much centre in the slots. I apologise for steering away from the AT deck...

My cart (SHURE V15 type IV) was set up by the DUAL factory guy many years ago & I have only changed out the stylus since then.Due to my many moves (and having things stored in various locales, I am not sure where my setup info for the 1229 even is).
I feel that, unless the cart itself goes bad, I'm OK. I have plenty of NOS styluses that I bought once I had settled on the cart.

 

[Bob from Florida]

I apologise for steering away from the AT deck...

No apologies needed, it seems I started that trend when I started talking about the SL-1300G. The AT deck is probably pretty good within its price range. What I think is cool is all these new tables being introduced. Almost like a “Time Warp”. Great for vinyl lovers!

 

[dlaloum]

My cart (SHURE V15 type IV) was set up by the DUAL factory guy many years ago & I have only changed out the stylus since then.Due to my many moves (and having things stored in various locals, I am not sure where my setup info for the 1229 even is).
I feel that, unless the cart itself goes bad, I'm OK. I have plenty of NOS styluses that I bought once I had settled on the cart.

The only caveat is the aging of the cantilever suspension...

Sadly, at the time, I abandoned vinyl, and when I came back to it, due to my archival collection... the original styli were unobtainium,

I fitted a T4P mount to my Revox linear tracker (it is a particularly painful arm to change cartridges on) and I have a collection of Shure V15 T4P types and a couple of SAS styli....

 

[EJ3]

The only caveat is the aging of the cantilever suspension...

Sadly, at the time, I abandoned vinyl, and when I came back to it, due to my archival collection... the original styli were unobtainium,

I fitted a T4P mount to my Revox linear tracker (it is a particularly painful arm to change cartridges on) and I have a collection of Shure V15 T4P types and a couple of SAS styli....

True about the suspensions. I generally track at 1 to 1 & 1/4 grams depending in the SHURE brush or not. I also try to get some thick lube into the SHURE brush hinge, as I believe that keeping that from being "floppy" helps overall. But: mine styli have always been in a controlled environment (that is no guaranty) but, when you buy today from someone, it is unlikely that they can "honestly" say that.
I also have a few SAS. Do you find that one of their cantilever types is noticeably better than the others? is more worthy than the others?

 

[EJ3]

I fitted a T4P mount to my Revox linear tracker (it is a particularly painful arm to change cartridges on)

Sounds like Revox went against the K.I.S.S. principle with the T4P deal.

 

[dlaloum]

True about the suspensions. I generally track at 1 to 1 & 1/4 grams depending in the SHURE brush or not. I also try to get some thick lube into the SHURE brush hinge, as I believe that keeping that from being "floppy" helps overall. But: mine styli have always been in a controlled environment (that is no guaranty) but, when you buy today from someone, it is unlikely that they can "honestly" say that.
I also have a few SAS. Do you find that one of their cantilever types is noticeably better than the others? is more worthy than the others?

I only have the Boron cantilever versions - and there is substantial variation between individual samples....

The effective tip mass on one puts the resonance at around 14kHz, and on the other it puts it at 16kHz - both of these are within the range of good quality tapered aluminium cantilevers... so their boron into a thicker aluminium shank section with a tension wire at the back design, ends up being substantially heavier than the original Shure items.

When tuning them, they work best with the high inductance bodies - so I would suggest a V15IV or V15III or an M97/95 type... not the V15V - as its low inductance works best with a very low tip mass design, having resonance above 30kHz! (and of course the narrow shank V15III and IV are not internchangeable with the "fat shank" M97/M95 or V15Vx)

The V15's have laminated core generators, so are prefereable to the M97/M95.... but the actual difference in audible terms should be totally negligible.

 

[dlaloum]

Sounds like Revox went against the K.I.S.S. principle with the T4P deal.

They originally issued them with 1/2" mount, but later factory issued ones came out with the T4P adaptor fitted ex factory.

Mine is an earlier B795... so I fitted my own T4P adapter (which has the side benefit of raising the effective mass of the tone arm to around what is needed for a T4P, as in 1/2" mode it is a 4g arm.... best suited to very very high compliance cartridges)

 

[DSJR]

The only caveat is the aging of the cantilever suspension...

Sadly, at the time, I abandoned vinyl, and when I came back to it, due to my archival collection... the original styli were unobtainium,

I fitted a T4P mount to my Revox linear tracker (it is a particularly painful arm to change cartridges on) and I have a collection of Shure V15 T4P types and a couple of SAS styli....

I have TWO V15 IIIs with very low hours. One is set up in an SME 'Improved' fixed-head arm ready for whatever deck I fit it to and the other is the special LM type as supplied by Dual in the 601 and 701. They both track superbly at 1g to this day and 'sound' much as I remember. I also have a Stanton 681EEE which is more 'restrained' perhaps, but again, this one tracks very well at 1.25g or so (I used it in my 1229 when I had it). Not allpickups go off with the years, but I accept some may in different climates. Many, like my B&O MMC20CL and apparently the Technics 205mk2 (not the III which is a classic), do prefer warmer climates, my 20CL only usable in the summertime here if a terminal dullness is to be avoided.

 

[Bland_username42069]

I would be very surprised if there is anything new today that can rival a 1300g. You can have separate power supply, the notion of a “better” arm etc but this is basically as good as it’s going to get in todays market.

 

[dualazmak]

I assume we should be reminded that the theme and title of this thread is "New AT Turntable AT-LP8X", otherwise we/I may easily jump far away into the really crazy world of Turn Tables such as TechDAS Air Force Zero (https://techdas.jp/pages/air-force-zero/):
Further references can be found;
dedicated thread entitled "$575,000 (Spare Arm Tube Included)",
https://www.stereophile.com/content/techdas-air-force-zero-turntable,
and, my posts here and here.