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New Towers-BMR Philharmonic, Revel F208, or other?

Everett T

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Let me throw in a wild card apparently. Paradigm Founder 100f.

When auditioning speakers, both my gf and I liked the paradigm 80f more than the revel f208. Sure the revel has more bass, but I thought the paradigm was better in the midrange and treble. To me, the f208 is a fine speaker that anyone would be happy with but it did not wow me at all.

I currently have the f206s and they’re fine. They absolutely need a sub if listening to EDM or rap. I mostly listen to jazz, classic rock, etc. Not bass heavy music.
The only issue with the 100f is it doesn't have much deep bass compared to the others, if the OP is settled on that criteria. I would expect an in room f10 in the upper 30s and the bass should be very good from there on up.
 

fineMen

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... doesn't have much deep bass ...
I wonder why this is still going on. You are willing to spend for just loudspeakers some money that others would give a leg and and an arm for. And You dismiss totally the idea of having an equalizer to adjust the bass to a) Your likeing and b) the room and c) the listening position and d) the speaker's position?! Dunno what is worse, the deviation of a speaker from ideal proportions, or the disproportionate reasoning about it. My personal standpoint: generalized esthetics.
 

Everett T

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I wonder why this is still going on. You are willing to spend for just loudspeakers some money that others would give a leg and and an arm for. And You dismiss totally the idea of having an equalizer to adjust the bass to a) Your likeing and b) the room and c) the listening position and d) the speaker's position?! Dunno what is worse, the deviation of a speaker from ideal proportions, or the disproportionate reasoning about it. My personal standpoint: generalized esthetics.
1) I never dismissed the idea of EQ.
2) I never dismissed room acoustics
3) I never dismissed speaker setup.

Why are you mad that I'm willing to spend my money how I see fit? I never recommended a speaker that didn't fit what was being discussed, financially and specs. I get that you're looking for the most cost effective speaker to satisfy your needs (not the OP's) but what about the OPs needs? Also, who made you that arbiter?

As for people that would give an arm and a leg for something that is being discussed or that I've talked about or bought, how is their financial situation my fault ? I've never recommend a speaker that is outside of the scope of what someone has asked for. I'd ask you not to come at me because of your personal situation since you are not the person asking for advice. If you think your money is better spent building your own speakers, I have no problem with that, and actually encourage it, as building for a room:s acoustics is awesome. Maybe your anger would be better spent learning how to read people, just saying.

Are we good now that I've cleared that up?
 

Rottmannash

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What sale price were u quoted for the F208s?
 

Looneybomber

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What sale price were u quoted for the F208s?
I know you’re not asking me, but the f208s are on sale everywhere at 30% off until the end of the year. I read that on AVS in the Revel Owner’s thread by Rex something. He’s a Revel dealer. Further discounts could be had but not from places like Crutchfield who sell at retail prices.
 

Rottmannash

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I know you’re not asking me, but the f208s are on sale everywhere at 30% off until the end of the year. I read that on AVS in the Revel Owner’s thread by Rex something. He’s a Revel dealer. Further discounts could be had but not from places like Crutchfield who sell at retail prices.
That was going to be my comment when the OP responded-Crutchfield is the wrong place to buy speakers IMO, as they can't/won't discount them like a dealer. I paid for a pair of F208's last year at a local dealer for about what one speaker retails for on Crutchfield. I was going to strongly encourage him to seek out a dealer, if he has to drive a bit, as the savings could be substantial.
 

fineMen

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... how is their financial situation my fault ?
Some investor is credited the witty saying: "Your money isn't gone, it is just with somebody else."

Anyway, I've seen arguments about a single dB or so in the bass, while nobody mentioned the +/-10dB from the room. It is only that unsettling to see people of education neglect valuable information deliberately for the sake of a pretty lame argument. But as always, go on!
 

pseudoid

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while nobody mentioned the +/-10dB from the room...
You are being too gracious!
This one is a virgin's question, never asked before:
How in the heck does anyone correct (software? hardware?) for a listening room (20' x 25') where every wall has at least two ~3"x4" glass (plexiglass) covered artwork... and two sliding double-doors and two windows?
meh!
I gave up a loooong time ago!:(
*Sound absorption, reflection mitigation are impossible
*Multi-channel is not an option
*Software room correction has zero ROI...
*When compared to what you can let your mind compensate for:oops:
 

kma100

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That was going to be my comment when the OP responded-Crutchfield is the wrong place to buy speakers IMO, as they can't/won't discount them like a dealer. I paid for a pair of F208's last year at a local dealer for about what one speaker retails for on Crutchfield. I was going to strongly encourage him to seek out a dealer, if he has to drive a bit, as the savings could be substantial.
Crutchfield is selling at 30% off and free shipping. Just FYI.
 

Rottmannash

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According the site they're $1925.00 each. Not a bad price shipped but if one could drive to a dealer I believe they could save another $1000. ;)
 

fineMen

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This one is a virgin's question, never asked before: ...
In order to equalize room modes a pair (!) of smaller (!) subwoofers are in order. Only to fill in suck-outs, not to extend the range. Smooth bass is as important as extension, max spl. It makes a difference if the bass is booming at certain frequencies or not; the boom would highly affect the feel of extension, the clarity of lower midrange, what have You? Another electronic equalizer would best help with the integration of main speakers, subwoofers, room position of them all and listener's position also.

I'm anyway advertising to take smaller speakers, e/g the KEF LS50 or so, adding woofers, in contrast to just subwoofers, stereo up to about 250Hz.

In consequence, for me personally, the time of big 'towers' is over. With cheap and reliable electronics available, cheap and reliable measurement equipment available, there are better options. Better sonically, better visually, more flexible.
 

pseudoid

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In order to equalize room modes a pair (!) of smaller (!) subwoofers are in order.
I am NOT certain this is a fact but it could be even argued w/o the justifications you state.
What exactly is the purpose of adding more (mis-matched) equipment when a full-range pair of floor speakers are already 'matched'?
As I attempted to explain, I am aware of what my options can be but I am doubting that you fully understood the overall complexity of my problem.
 

Looneybomber

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I am NOT certain this is a fact but it could be even argued w/o the justifications you state.
What exactly is the purpose of adding more (mis-matched) equipment when a full-range pair of floor speakers are already 'matched'?
As I attempted to explain, I am aware of what my options can be but I am doubting that you fully understood the overall complexity of my problem.
Is this a question about practices/theories or is this a question about your specific room and equipment?

If it’s about practices, there are lots of before and after graphs showing 1, 2, and 4 subs. Just takes reading through various build threads where people post that info. There’s also a few videos from Audioholics on that subject. There’s pretty unanimous info out there showing improvements to frequency response when going to 4 subs vs 1.

If it’s about your specific room and equipment, you’d have to start a new thread or hire a company to come measure your room if you don’t feel like doing it or are unable.
 

samysound

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He is also developing new speakers - "So--we have the new BMR HT. Two Purifi woofers are combined with two new BMR units and the Mundorf in an MTM configuration to provide sound that is very similar to the BMR Tower, but achieves sensitivity of 90 dB. "

(more info on AVS Forum)
Are any specs/details available for the upcoming BMR HT model? @Dennis Murphy ? Curious what tradeoff in low freq extension might be with the higher sensitivity and smaller cabinet.
 

Dennis Murphy

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Are any specs/details available for the upcoming BMR HT model? @Dennis Murphy ? Curious what tradeoff in low freq extension might be with the higher sensitivity and smaller cabinet.
The new HT uses a more sensitive version of the Purifi 8 Ohm 6.5" woofer. There is a trade-off in bass extension, but anyone who is serious enough to buy the HT for movies will no doubt have a sub(s). The box tuning is mass loaded transmission line, and there's useful room response down to 32 Hz. Even when run in parallel, the woofers aren't sensitive enough to get sensitivity above 90 dB. I will probably spec it at 89 dB to be conservative. Modeling shows 106 dB output at one meter before the woofers run out of travel. The new design is voiced the same as my other speakers, and horizontal dispersion is almost as wide, thanks to the very narrow Mundorf AMT. I haven't measured distortion much above 90 dB yet, but all of the drivers, including the new BMR midrange units, are clocking in at a maximum of .2% above 200 Hz.
 

Transmaniacon

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Polk R700 could be something to consider as well.
 

fineMen

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What exactly is the purpose of adding more (mis-matched) equipment when a full-range pair of floor speakers are already 'matched'?
Define 'match'?! Devices get matched in regard to frequency response etc., or do You mean the 'brand'?

My current hobbyhorse is the intermodulation distortion. A stereo-pair of not-so sub-woofers would help to destress the main speakers up to a higher frequency. That would help with clarity. Just recently I used a friend's speaker setup only to immediately notice, that it was muddy, bass-y sounding without having real bass, missing all the--to me, natural structure in the bass to midrange registers. Except the music didn't demand bass, then the sound was pretty much o/k. Getting back home, listening to the same record., all was back, naturally. There is a problem.

Another: a not so bad small 2-way was supported by bass modules, as not to say 'subs'. They were placed about 1m (3feet) apart from the little mains. In order to keep IM distortion in check the x-over was raised to about 200Hz. The HD was still a bit on the high side with about 1% @ 96dB (mono), but the IM was pretty much in check. The sound cleared up a lot. The stereo panorama wasn't affected at all. The very high-quality bass modules didn't make themselves noticed.
 
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Ricardojoa

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You are being too gracious!
This one is a virgin's question, never asked before:
How in the heck does anyone correct (software? hardware?) for a listening room (20' x 25') where every wall has at least two ~3"x4" glass (plexiglass) covered artwork... and two sliding double-doors and two windows?
meh!
I gave up a loooong time ago!:(
*Sound absorption, reflection mitigation are impossible
*Multi-channel is not an option
*Software room correction has zero ROI...
*When compared to what you can let your mind compensate for:oops:
You can use stands to hold the absorption panels and peq to help with room modes
 
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