New system need speaker cables - what to buy?

[GD Fan]

Wouldn't it have been easier to use a very short bit of cable to stand in for the jumpers?

Sure, if that had been on hand.

 

[Ropeburn]

Also wanted to mention that biwire is generally 100% pointless... you're moving the point at which the low and high frequency drivers are electrically connected outside of the speaker cabinet, but that doesn't do anything for the actual performance. So you can just keep the jumpers as is, nothing to worry about there.

The idea of filtering frequencies that aren't meant to go to each driver is critical (that's why crossovers exist) but this isn't what biwiring does, nor does it even slightly improve on that. The crossover is still doing all the work biwired or not.

The only point of bi-wiring cables is that it's an excuse to use four strands and nicely braid them. Braids are practical and pretty!

 

[Mart68]

Just cut the cables you have already down to the size you need, strip back to expose fresh copper, plug them in.

Three grand saved, sound quality totally unaffected.

 

[morpheusX]

I would sell the ones you have (overpriced with no real benefit), and use something from Van Damme, Klotz, Sommer, or any other quality pro-audio brand.

 

[NicC]

Hi guys. I heard an online comment by an audio manufacturer I enjoy watching, stating cable choice can make a "dramatic difference" to the sound of a speaker. He says he simply hasn't heard the sound quality from any other cable that his $21 000 cables can produce. He admits they are overpriced but he enjoys them. I know enjoyment is "subjective", but I don't think a "dramatic difference" in sound quality can be considered subjective. I'm curious if anyone can confirm (or debunk) this from a similar experience with cables costing thousands. Maybe someone here at ASR has been to a showroom and the dealer performed an A/B test for them??? Maybe the point is the connectors make the difference - and wire is, as wire does??? I don't know. I'm not experienced enough. But 21 grand? Wowser!

 

[JSmith]

I'm curious if anyone can confirm (or debunk) this from a similar experience with cables costing thousands.

It's complete and utter rubbish... steer clear, it's a scam.


JSmith

 

[Ropeburn]

Hi guys. I heard an online comment by an audio manufacturer I enjoy watching, stating cable choice can make a "dramatic difference" to the sound of a speaker. He says he simply hasn't heard the sound quality from any other cable that his $21 000 cables can produce. He admits they are overpriced but he enjoys them. I know enjoyment is "subjective", but I don't think a "dramatic difference" in sound quality can be considered subjective. I'm curious if anyone can confirm (or debunk) this from a similar experience with cables costing thousands. Maybe someone here at ASR has been to a showroom and the dealer performed an A/B test for them??? Maybe the point is the connectors make the difference - and wire is, as wire does??? I don't know. I'm not experienced enough. But 21 grand? Wowser!

I assure you, my self made speaker cables, from 99% pure copper wire, weaved and bi-wire configuration, very pretty looking, properly terminated with banana plugs and heat shrink wrap, 8mm² (=8AWG), in other words, ludicrously thick and completely overdone and overengineered, sound better than his fucking twenty one thousand dollar ones.

Because mine are handmade in Germany, the most respected "made in" label in the world.

By me. They also cost around 30 Euro or 40 dollars per 2.5m pair. LOL.

Does that answer your question? It really should. Because smoke and mirrors are just that. Empty talk.

I hope you get the idea.

 

[NicC]

Yessir. Well said. I appreciate the comments. I find it so odd that people adamantly, strenuously, in good faith ( I think ), continue to assert differences. It boggles my mind. The guy wasn't selling anything - just commenting. Your cables sound terrific - 40 bucks? There you go!

 

[JSmith]

It boggles my mind.

Yep, sure does;

The Well-Tempered Computer

Keeping us blind folded, my brother switched out the Belden wire (are you ready for this) with simple coat hanger wire! Unknown to me and our 12 audiophile buddies, prior to the ABX blind test, he took apart four coat hangers, reconnected them and twisted them into a pair of speaker cables. Connections were soldered. He stashed them in a closet within the testing room so we were not privy to what he was up to. This made for a pair of 2 meter cables, the exact length of the other wires. The test was conducted. After 5 tests, none could determine which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire.

JSmith

 

[Crook]

Wow $3k, madness, Wow $21k, totally ludicrous. I go for 12awg and Sommer make, as I know the company makes good quality/honest cable. I pay £4 per/m, so about £20 all in and this I consider to be already a bit too expensive (but I like the transparent/smoke look of the cable, so there is that part too). Honestly, don't be taken in by the charlatans. If you pay $21k for cables, of course it has to sound different, if not, the shame and embarrassment would kill you.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Hi guys. I heard an online comment by an audio manufacturer I enjoy watching, stating cable choice can make a "dramatic difference" to the sound of a speaker. He says he simply hasn't heard the sound quality from any other cable that his $21 000 cables can produce. He admits they are overpriced but he enjoys them. I know enjoyment is "subjective", but I don't think a "dramatic difference" in sound quality can be considered subjective. I'm curious if anyone can confirm (or debunk) this from a similar experience with cables costing thousands. Maybe someone here at ASR has been to a showroom and the dealer performed an A/B test for them??? Maybe the point is the connectors make the difference - and wire is, as wire does??? I don't know. I'm not experienced enough. But 21 grand? Wowser!

You will hear stuff like this about cables and many other things. What you will notice is that they never provide any evidence to support those claims…it just a bunch of words designed to sound special to separate you from your dollars. If there was any truth to those words, the supporting evidence would be front and centre.

Going back to speaker cables. Here is a quick experiment for you to try. Pull one of the drivers out of the speakers and look at the wire attached to it...

 

[Jaxjax]

I just bought a new system and while I'm an experienced and discerning musician, I'm new to audiophile equipment. Budget is flexible. What speaker cables would you recommend, from experience? As of now, I'm considering Cardas Cygnas or Clear Reflection. Someone suggested Synergistic Research as a line to look into, speakers are cornwall IV - high efficiency and horn forward of course.

PASS Labs XP20 Preamp>PASS Labs XA30.8 Pwramp>Cornwall IV speaker

The speakers have a 4 post biwire setup, would biwire speaker vs jumpers be suggested and what speaker cable would be a good match for this system? I listen to mostly live music recordings, grateful dead, phish, etc.

Get the proper gauge & what routes to your liking. I known to toss cables that don't lay down........................

 

[Fahzz]

OP needs to hear about "burn in" too!

 

[Multicore]

The only point of bi-wiring cables is that it's an excuse to use four strands and nicely braid them. Braids are practical and pretty!

I think we need a "Show us your braids" thread.

 

[Multicore]

I find it so odd that people adamantly, strenuously, in good faith ( I think ), continue to assert differences.

A lot of money depends on creating and sustaining the belief. In this sense it is very important.

It boggles my mind. The guy wasn't selling anything - just commenting.

Once you committed that much to a false belief ...

 

[lc6]

There is so much misinformation on speaker cables floating around, even from well known publications. Consider this one, published today:

"Take the usual passive loudspeaker–amplifier connection. At its simplest, it comprises a pair of insulated wires a few meters long of moderate—say, half an ohm—loop resistance, readily capable of carrying up to 25A or so of peak current. If our notional amplifier has an output resistance of 0.1 ohm, which is typical, the total resistance presented to the loudspeaker is then about 0.6 ohm. For a nominal 6 ohm speaker, the much-vaunted damping factor will be 6 divided by 0.6, or 10, which is unimpressive numerically. For many loudspeakers, both the Q factor (which controls damping) at low frequencies and the overall frequency response will begin to show increasingly audible changes at damping-factor values much lower than this. This is one way that small changes in sound quality may begin to intrude in a system unexpectedly."

Let's assume "a few meters long" means about 3 m (10 ft), so the loop length is 20 ft. To safely carry up to 25 A of current (even if it is peak caused by music transients), an AWG 10 cable is recommended. Resistance of stranded copper AWG 10 wire varies from 1.45 to 1.75 Ohms per 1,000 ft, depending on the number and size of strands. Assuming that the resistance is 1.6 Ohm per 1,000 ft, the loop resistance of a 20 ft cable is 0.032 Ohms, so 15.6 times lower than the 0.5 Ohm the author claims it to be. Then his whole argument about the damping factor with a 0.1 Ohm amplifier output impedance (not resistance) and a 6 Ohm speaker decreasing to 10 from a theoretical max of 60 falls apart (in this example, the damping factor is 6 / (0.1 + 0.032) = 45.5).

So, depending on the nominal impedance of the speakers and their distance from the amplifier, use a good quality oxygen-free copper stranded AWG 10 or 12 cable with decent terminations and be happy.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

use a good quality oxygen-free copper

The "oxygen-free" criterion is just marketing hype given that ordinary copper wire is more than "oxygen-free" enough: What about “oxygen free” wire?

 

[Speedskater]

The insulation on 10AWG wire is rated to carry 25 Amps of continuous current all day long. It's the insulation that has the current rating not the copper and it's time related.
18AWG will have no problems with 25 Amp musical peaks.

 

[kyuu]

The insulation on 10AWG wire is rated to carry 25 Amps of continuous current all day long. It's the insulation that has the current rating not the copper and it's time related.
18AWG will have no problems with 25 Amp musical peaks.

This is... wrong, to the best of my knowledge. The insulation is related to the voltage rating. The higher the voltage, the more insulation you need to prevent arcing. The ability to carry current without overheating is definitely the job of the copper. The wire's gauge is not even related to the insulation, you can have 10AWG wire with various thickness and types of insulation.

 

[vddobrev]

I just bought a new system and while I'm an experienced and discerning musician, I'm new to audiophile equipment. Budget is flexible. What speaker cables would you recommend, from experience? As of now, I'm considering Cardas Cygnas or Clear Reflection. Someone suggested Synergistic Research as a line to look into, speakers are cornwall IV - high efficiency and horn forward of course.

PASS Labs XP20 Preamp>PASS Labs XA30.8 Pwramp>Cornwall IV speaker

The speakers have a 4 post biwire setup, would biwire speaker vs jumpers be suggested and what speaker cable would be a good match for this system? I listen to mostly live music recordings, grateful dead, phish, etc.

Not so long ago, I was researching the same subject. Came to the conclusion that ready-made cables are too expensive, so I went the DYI route, with an established brand - In-akustik.
I created my own cables with their wire and connectors, namely:

1. Speaker cable inakustik LS-1102. It is a 6 wire cable, 3 pairs of black/white. 2 pairs go to low frequencies, and 1 pair goes to high/mid frequencies. This is for bi-wiring. On the amp end, all 3 pairs are joined into white and black. Each of the 6 wires is 1,95 sq. mm.
2. For termination, I used either KS-103 spade, or BFA-103, or BFA-103 45 degree angled.
3. Used some black and white shrink-wrap to create the looks.

All these can be purchased (in Europe) for not so much money from av connections. They ship next day.

Good luck.

Edit: make sure to terminate the cable ends with cable ferrules (not copper) and crimp them before inserting in the BFA or KS connectors. Bare wire is not recommended with them