New system - just wanted to share

[Ruediger]

Interesting. Thinking about crossing my Kef R2 meta over earlier.

 

[killdozzer]

Toslink is a better transport lane than rca to my knowledge (you introduce an extra conversion with rca), but I admit I have no idea if the difference may be audible or not (the highest risk maybe is it would catch up some noise, but I think you won't and it's so cheap that is worth to try) .
Anyway the chain you proposed is way cheaper and the improvement of room correction/eq will be much greater than the potential loss of some audio quality.
I think you should try as you said if you are looking for the best deal of cost/improvement.

I think (with the subwoofer and room correction) your speaker is a smaller bottleneck than one can imagine. The room correction will also cut peak sounds, so room treatment would be a lot less required. Of course it may still be a big further improvement, but in a living room, for many it's easily too much of a trade-off IMHO.

Thank you for taking some time to think it through and try to help me. As you said, to avoid unnecessary spending, I'll start with the cheapest solution and only move on if the need arises.

I agree about the noise, thou. And I can hear it... But I'll deal with those nuances when I get the basics. The solution does get complicated a little bit. Here's why if you're interested; if I get a PC based room eq, it won't change what comes out of my NAS and goes directly into the DAC/AMP, right?

This means two things; either I need to insert the Room Eq between my NAS and my DAC/AMP or I need to send the signal (digitally preferably) into my PC, EQ-it and then send it to the amp. And, of course, it's better to go as little as possible with digital to analogue to digital to analogue...

As I've mentioned, most of my gear is really basic. Meaning my NAS doesn't have any other out than LAN or USB-A, my PC(laptop) doesn't have any other out than USB-A, USB-C or LAN (and I'm not sure if this LAN is 'in' only).

Using the avr's DAC is the least noise in my case
Using a dongle DAC/AMP is mid-noise (let's call it that since these 3,5mm to L/R RCA tend to crackle and induce hum etc.)
Using my 3,5mm out on my PC picks up all sorts of noise and I can clearly hear it.

So I'd love to go NAS to avr, but it's impossible with this NAS and this avr.

"Best-Possible" is to go NAS > DAC/AMP dongle > avr (and just chose a well spec'd DAC dongle since it's cheapest and there are some good ones around). HOWEVER in this case it's hard to use Room Eq and my NAS is Linux based which only makes it harder as I'm not that versed with mics and Room Eq software in Linux.

LET'S TALK ABOUT BLUETOOTH - BT is always an option, but it proved to be very problematic for me. It's glitching and lagging all the time. Suffice to, for example, type into the PC installed WhatsApp and it will interrupt like crazy. Even when left alone, the buffer will often make it pause a song in the middle of the playback if it's a FLAC file.

However, I could see myself investing in a good BT little receiver if you've heard of such a thing. In that case I'd go NAS > LAN > PC > BT > avr DAC and on to the amplification section.

 

[killdozzer]

Good stuff. In case you haven't, can set your KEF mains to 'small' in the avr to alleviate some stress from reproducing the lower frequencies. From what I've seen and read so far about the KEF coaxials (like them lots!), they're not meant to go below 100hz, their distortion almost always goes up below 200hz.

Good youtube track to check the sub / speaker crossover by ear:

Thank you very much I'll give it a look. I think I already put my mains to 'small' since otherwise sub-out doesn't send signal in stereo when the DSP is off. I think for this model sub-out only works with some of the DSP settings or if you choose 'small' for the mains. 'Large' on mains, and the sub-out is quiet.

 

[Ruediger]

WiiM also solves the room EQ topic. Besides all the other questions I see here.

Just saying...

 

[SGiniS]

Thank you for taking some time to think it through and try to help me. As you said, to avoid unnecessary spending, I'll start with the cheapest solution and only move on if the need arises.

I agree about the noise, thou. And I can hear it... But I'll deal with those nuances when I get the basics. The solution does get complicated a little bit. Here's why if you're interested; 1# if I get a PC based room eq, it won't change what comes out of my NAS and goes directly into the DAC/AMP, right?

This means two things; either I need to insert the Room Eq between my NAS and my DAC/AMP or 2# I need to send the signal (digitally preferably) into my PC, EQ-it and then send it to the amp. And, of course, it's better to go as little as possible with digital to analogue to digital to analogue...

As I've mentioned, most of my gear is really basic. Meaning my NAS doesn't have any other out than LAN or USB-A, my PC(laptop) doesn't have any other out than USB-A, USB-C or LAN (and I'm not sure if this LAN is 'in' only).

Using the avr's DAC is the least noise in my case
3# Using a dongle DAC/AMP is mid-noise (let's call it that since these 3,5mm to L/R RCA tend to crackle and induce hum etc.)
Using my 3,5mm out on my PC picks up all sorts of noise and I can clearly hear it.

So I'd love to go NAS to avr, but it's impossible with this NAS and this avr.

"Best-Possible" is to go NAS > DAC/AMP dongle > avr (and just chose a well spec'd DAC dongle since it's cheapest and there are some good ones around). HOWEVER in this case it's hard to use Room Eq and my NAS is Linux based which only makes it harder as I'm not that versed with mics and Room Eq software in Linux.

4#LET'S TALK ABOUT BLUETOOTH - BT is always an option, but it proved to be very problematic for me. It's glitching and lagging all the time. Suffice to, for example, type into the PC installed WhatsApp and it will interrupt like crazy. Even when left alone, the buffer will often make it pause a song in the middle of the playback if it's a FLAC file.

However, I could see myself investing in a good BT little receiver if you've heard of such a thing. In that case I'd go NAS > LAN > PC > BT > avr DAC and on to the amplification section.

No worry, i'm glad to help and I like to explore new systems. But beware I don't know everything either and I could be wrong about some stuff (even if I try to always check my sources). I never used a NAS or free room correction software (I heard good things about Equalizer APO thought). I only experienced dirac from pc or third-party hardware eq.

The noise you catch up from pc->3.5mm->rca maybe is linked to the voltage of the dongle if it's too small (you need more voltage, but it may not be related to the quality of the dongle). But I don't know well those stuff, just readed about something similar once
P.s. have you connected others things to the pc? Because I know sometimes they get more instable if you connect other things.

To answer:
1# no, unfortunately the pc has to stay active part of the chain for the room correction to work. Otherwise you need third-party hardware

2# I would suggest this as the easiest way. Any digital transfer, either lan or usb doesn't introduce any quality degradation, it's not how digital works. Personally I wouldn't lose my sleep even about an extra digital->analogue conversion, the gain is well worth what you lose.

3# I think that's it. If you could find a cheap usb to toslink active converter you would solve the noise issues, but if you spend too much is no longer a good choice compared to the wiim mini. Otherwise, if the noise is only audible when it's silent, I imagine you could turn off your pc or select another output when you are not listening to music to stop the noise.

4# Bluetooth is often disregarded as a low quality media transfert. However, If you have no easy alternative, this would still be a doable approach and the room correction benefit are more audible than the quality difference. I used to use bluetooth when friends came over (more practical) and honestly the system still sounded very good. Of course the higher the quality of the source the more time/buffer it will introduce.
I personally have a oehlbach bluetooth receiver with rca out which I bought used for 1 euro (got very lucky), but I'm sure any of those would work quite the same. If you find one with newer protocols (and your pc is able of that) I don't think you will be able to tell the difference compared to cable.

 

[killdozzer]

Yep. We're somewhere along the same lines.

I'm still thinking which particular path to choose. At this point in time I'm leaning towards buying a good DAC. I can get the Hidizs S9 for about 45€. This way I'm left with an above average DAC eve if I decide to change something.

In this case, it would be NAS (I keep starting with my NAS since a huge amount of digital files is stored on my NAS) > LAN cable to laptop > EQ the signal > USB DAC/AMP dongle > avr RCA in

I'm aware I wouldn't be using my avr's DAC, but this would be as good.

 

[killdozzer]

WiiM also solves the room EQ topic. Besides all the other questions I see here.

Just saying...

Thank you. As I said, WiiM is not a solution for my specific situation.

 

[Tom C]

Damn! This doesn't work.

I used to own a little dongle that was an USB-A dac/amp. I would stick this in my NAS and go with a plain cable from this dac/amp to my amp. For some reason my ex took the dongle. I don't think she even knows what it is.

From what I’ve read, you need a PC (or Sony PS 4/5) to make a cable like this work. Did you try connecting the cable to your laptop and the Yamaha?

 

[killdozzer]

From what I’ve read, you need a PC (or Sony PS 4/5) to make a cable like this work. Did you try connecting the cable to your laptop and the Yamaha?

Is that Mucha in your avatar?

Thank you for your help. What I meant when I said 'damn! this doesn't work' was that I was just discovering you can't go USB > TOSLINK or SPDIF. Never needed it before, so I didn't really know it won't work. This means it's off. This version of going USB out > digital in on my avr won't work.

The reason I'm thinking about this capable USB/DAC dongle is because I can use it both on my laptop and on my NAS. I already tried. I used to own such a DAC (as shown in one of the earlier pics) plugged it in my NAS and connected it to my avr. However, I can plug it in my laptop as well. Connect NAS > laptop > Room EQ the sound and send it > USB-C out to my DAC/AMP dongle and then on to one of the RCA ins on my avr.

 

[killdozzer]

The thing I really like is how my mind is completely and utterly tricked by this set up... Sitting in front of it and looking at my left or right main, I have a feeling the lowest tones emanate from those, even if I know that's not true.

I keep thinking how good this set up could be with a better set of speakers... 2.1 but from Revel, KEF, Paradigm, Perlisten, Genelec, Neumann, Philharmonic, Salk... It would totally rock.

 

[Tom C]

Is that Mucha in your avatar?

Thank you for your help. What I meant when I said 'damn! this doesn't work' was that I was just discovering you can't go USB > TOSLINK or SPDIF. Never needed it before, so I didn't really know it won't work. This means it's off. This version of going USB out > digital in on my avr won't work.

The reason I'm thinking about this capable USB/DAC dongle is because I can use it both on my laptop and on my NAS. I already tried. I used to own such a DAC (as shown in one of the earlier pics) plugged it in my NAS and connected it to my avr. However, I can plug it in my laptop as well. Connect NAS > laptop > Room EQ the sound and send it > USB-C out to my DAC/AMP dongle and then on to one of the RCA ins on my avr.

Mucha, yes. It was done as an advertising poster for Bisquit Cognac.
I think that wire can be made to work in the right circumstances, but I never tried. As you say, a DAC is probably the best option. Affordable and more versatile.

 

[MattHooper]

Thanks for sharing a peek at your system.
Looks good!

Thumbs up for the projector too! My favourite way to watch a movie. Enjoy!

 

[killdozzer]

Mucha, yes. It was done as an advertising poster for Bisquit Cognac.
I think that wire can be made to work in the right circumstances, but I never tried. As you say, a DAC is probably the best option. Affordable and more versatile.

I could try to make it work, I have time and will, but what I read was that, supposedly, you don't get a signal from your USB-C that is equivalent to optical digital signal. I've noticed that if I look for such a cable, there's always some sort of adapter attached to it.

In short, this means I either have to buy a DAC converter or a USB to SPDIF converter. No big difference.
Having said that, I'm looking at this as a chance to get a high performing DAC, such as Hidizs S8 Pro or S9 Pro which will come in handy later on even if I rewire it differently.

 

[killdozzer]

Thanks for sharing a peek at your system.
Looks good!

Thumbs up for the projector too! My favourite way to watch a movie. Enjoy!

Well, thank you for your kind words. This is really basic in a lot of ways. As I said coming in, it's just what I managed to muster for a couple of hundreds of dollars. I'm very happy, don't get me wrong. I think it's better than I expected.

I'm very happy with the projector. This is my first solid state DLP projector. It is promising tens of thousands hour of play time and it has better blacks. Blacks are quite deep and, well, black, rather than light gray as in my former basic LCD projector.

Again, even the set up of the projector is bellow average. No screen, just wall and sitting on a stand at an angle so I have to use keystone a lot which makes the projected light a huge trapezoid which is visible during the dark scenes.

But all of this is very temporary so I don't fuss too much.

 

[killdozzer]

After a couple of days of using this new/old equipment, I'd say it's probably more fair (accurate) statement that the sub goes -6dB to 30Hz if not more, but my room is rather small and I don't need to crank it up. Yesterday evening I went for some older Bjork numbers like Hunter, Bachelorette, Aeroplane, Isobel, Pagan Poetry, Come to me etc. I think it's very good music to enjoy your sub performance.