New sub from Ik Multimedia

[Nico10]

This is a woofer, not a "sub" woofer.

Subwoofer :20 Hz to 80 Hz
Iloud Sub: 25 - 150 Hz @-6 dB
At my listening position: 25 Hz @ 0 dB

I think it's a subwoofer

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

Thanks to all of you who have provided experiences and feedback about the subwoofer in this thread. Picked one up on sale thanks to your posts. I'm using them on a desktop with KRK 5s. No issues with the firmware update nor the ARC X software. The room correction is actually a treat to use and is, I think, the main reason the price makes sense.

I want to echo the comment from @slashvanyoung that the DSP introduces audible (from ~1m) high frequency noise (using XLRs). The KRK tweeters without the sub only have audible hiss from a few inches.

Has anyone played around with the correction tolerance (e.g., default vs. sharp)? The manual's explanation is lacking. What are the trade-offs?

Anyway, here are REW measurements showing the nasty room mode (the 90-150 Hz null-peak combo) without the sub and equalization. The room correction + high-passing the monitors dealt with that nicely. It did, however, exacerbate what seems to be desk reflection at 200 Hz. If anyone knows why the room correction would cause that, please let me know!

 

[Nico10]

1. Did you try using RCA instead of XLR?

2. What did the ARC graph look like? Because that 220Hz peak is striking, and you might see it in REW but not in ARC.

3. You can see the classic KRK 2/3kHz drop and 10kHz rise, and it seems ARC didn't agree with that, haha.

4. And as in almost all cases, the sub reaches 25Hz.

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

1. Did you try using RCA instead of XLR?

2. What did the ARC graph look like? Because that 220Hz peak is striking, and you might see it in REW but not in ARC.

3. You can see the classic KRK 2/3kHz drop and 10kHz rise, and it seems ARC didn't agree with that, haha.

4. And as in almost all cases, the sub reaches 25Hz.

My interface only has TRS outputs, and I'm not really interested in sourcing some RCA adapters. The ARX X software makes the calibration appear a lot flatter than the REW measurement. The pre-calibration curve >50 Hz (i.e., sans sub) accords well with the REW measurement. ARC X is generating the pre with the actual measurement. The software doesn't perform another measurement after calibration, so we know the post curve is a simulation.

It makes intuitive sense that the two measured responses match better than the pair of (optimistically?) simulated and measured responses.

I think it's a good idea to check your post calibration response with an independent measurement, and not just rely on the simulated response, especially if you're going to be adding filters. Nevertheless, I'm pretty happy with the default post calibration result. In my case, only filters 1 and 6 are used for the default tilt. I'm free to use filters 2-5 to correct some of the issues revealed in REW. I'll try those out next when I have some time.

Overall, the sub checks a lot of boxes for me. 1) It's a sub that can get down to 25 Hz at reasonable SPL; 2) the sub + room correction eliminated the main room mode issue; 3) filters are implemented in hardware so I don't have to run Equalizer APO, which allows me to use the interface's ASIO drivers. It's more elegant and cost-effective than adding a sub + minidsp separately.

 

[Nico10]

My interface only has TRS outputs, and I'm not really interested in sourcing some RCA adapters. The ARX X software makes the calibration appear a lot flatter than the REW measurement. The pre-calibration curve >50 Hz (i.e., sans sub) accords well with the REW measurement. ARC X is generating the pre with the actual measurement. The software doesn't perform another measurement after calibration, so we know the post curve is a simulation.

It makes intuitive sense that the two measured responses match better than the pair of (optimistically?) simulated and measured responses.

I think it's a good idea to check your post calibration response with an independent measurement, and not just rely on the simulated response, especially if you're going to be adding filters. Nevertheless, I'm pretty happy with the default post calibration result. In my case, only filters 1 and 6 are used for the default tilt. I'm free to use filters 2-5 to correct some of the issues revealed in REW. I'll try those out next when I have some time.

Overall, the sub checks a lot of boxes for me. 1) It's a sub that can get down to 25 Hz at reasonable SPL; 2) the sub + room correction eliminated the main room mode issue; 3) filters are implemented in hardware so I don't have to run Equalizer APO, which allows me to use the interface's ASIO drivers. It's more elegant and cost-effective than adding a sub + minidsp separately.

Perhaps try testing with another source (CD player, cell phone, etc.) to rule out the cable or the subwoofer input as the problem.

Yes, the ARC shows the simulated response, but I wanted to know if the simulated response was leaving a peak, but from what I can see, it isn't. In that case, it might be a good idea to manually adjust EQ 1 to lower that 220Hz peak.

I see you had the same issue with the gain as I did. There's a 15dB difference between the monitors and the sub. I lowered the physical gain of the sub so that the monitors had a gain close to 0dB.

And after measuring, I increased the sub's gain a few dB (from the ARC) so that the response was close to +5/6dB (I listen at a low SPL level and "needed" that extra gain on the sub).

 

[Eric Natural]

can anyone comment on the Subs latency ?
I have ARCx plugin in Ableton Live(sounds great) and can only monitor while mixing - not while tracking as the VST is way behind the beat and such a cpu hog . . .

 

[LiveTek]

can anyone comment on the Subs latency ?
I have ARCx plugin in Ableton Live(sounds great) and can only monitor while mixing - not while tracking as the VST is way behind the beat and such a cpu hog . . .

I thought arc had a no latency mode but maybe I am misremembering.

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

can anyone comment on the Subs latency ?
I have ARCx plugin in Ableton Live(sounds great) and can only monitor while mixing - not while tracking as the VST is way behind the beat and such a cpu hog . . .

Sorry my interface only has a single input channel, so I can't measure timing with a loopback.

 

[LiveTek]

The product page for the sub lists latency at 1.42ms.

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

Perhaps try testing with another source (CD player, cell phone, etc.) to rule out the cable or the subwoofer input as the problem.

It's definitely the DSP and/or output stage. It's likely just noisy and not very hi-fi. Disconnecting the XLRs and using the USB input has the same behaviour. It's a high frequency whine that sounds a bit like a CRT tv. Here's another example user complaint: https://forum.ikmultimedia.com/t/iloud-sub-high-frequency-squeal-problem/139

I see you had the same issue with the gain as I did. There's a 15dB difference between the monitors and the sub. I lowered the physical gain of the sub so that the monitors had a gain close to 0dB.

And after measuring, I increased the sub's gain a few dB (from the ARC) so that the response was close to +5/6dB (I listen at a low SPL level and "needed" that extra gain on the sub).

I tried messing with the gain knobs on both the monitors and the sub, and running various calibrations with different combinations of physical gain settings. They mostly sounded the same.

Ultimately, I found what works reasonably well and is most repeatable to eliminate the whine is:
1. simply leave all physical gain knobs on both the monitors and sub at 0, just like the ARC X instructions recommend
2. perform calibration/room correction, and optionally tune to taste
3. act surprised at the 15 dB difference in software gain
4. -20 dB is the greatest attenuation possible in ARC X, so find the offset that brings the sub gain to -20 dB
5. apply that offset to all gain settings

In my case, the interface has plenty of headroom. I was previously running some attenuation in the interface control software; I'm now running less attenuation.

---> (-10 dB) --->

I still hear a tiny bit of whine and would like to further attenuate in ARC X. I might be able to achieve that by repeating steps 1-5 with the physical gain on the monitors turned up (following the rule of seeking lower gain/noise earlier in the signal chain). Nevertheless, I think starting with the knob at 0 is the correct first step for most people.

 

[Querkle]

just got this today to add to my Kali LP6V2 for a home DJ studio, i set it up properly with the calibration, and it flattened things out. but it just didn't sound right. and i trust my ears.

I played multiple songs i know well and have heard on big systems, at a reasonable level to allow full headroom for the sub, some tracks came out with way to much sub, others completely missing it, same tracks for comparison on LP6V2 playing full range with no room calibration also sound fine.

I have a feeling like the big hump you see at 60hz is created more by the sub than the tops. as for the rest i have no idea why but it sounds night and day better with the correction off and tops crossed over at 50hz.

i would say the sub simply doesn't have enough headroom but just the discrepancy in bass notes between tracks i know and the way they sound completely off, i've listened to this music on hundreds of systems from danley, void, l acoustics, and hundreds of hand built rigs, the last studio sub i owned was a KRK 10 like 10 years ago and that also did not sound right lol. this is my second time hearing a studio sub and i am not a fan. I'm going to return it and try Kali WS 6.2

also something is up that it thinks top need 7db gain and sub needs -13db gain

 

[Querkle]

i will say, when i test the sub with just 50hz or 80hz selected for xover with no arc, it sounds fine. just not much headroom but sounds fine at lower volumes

 

[Puddingbuks]

@Querkle you are comparing your tiny home setup with massive sounds systems in very big rooms/venues, that is rather weird I guess?

ARC does what it can, but the sub you use is small. Try placing it in another spot and remeasure again. Or add a second sub.

 

[Palladium]

This really should have grilles to protect the drivers. It's so easy to kick it by accident if placed under the table.

 

[Querkle]

@Querkle you are comparing your tiny home setup with massive sounds systems in very big rooms/venues, that is rather weird I guess?

ARC does what it can, but the sub you use is small. Try placing it in another spot and remeasure again. Or add a second sub.

this sub simply doesn't have the headroom to mix / playback bass music properly, i moved the sub to a better position (centered directly in the middle of the 2 speakers , configured with and without ARC, i can clip this sub with such a quiet input, when i get the sound balanced and the sub is right on the edge of clipping i cant get above 80dBa

what happens is that the sub takes away work from the tops, which in theory is going to allow the tops to go louder with less distortion, what happens is that when the sub is balanced, the sub clips so quickly, the tops are now severely limited in their volume because how quickly the sub clips, if i turn the sub down more, there is less bass than just running the tops alone, because regardless of the 25-40hz reinforcement, 40hz + is negatively impacted in that the sub cant even maintain equal levels that the tops put out.

im sure for people who listen to rock/vocal/classical music this sub is great because that music usually doesnt contain peaks from 25-50hz that are 20db+ above everything else 50hz+

if u wanna know the track im using for testing this is it -

highly recomend as a sub test, there is a really deep note that can stress subs, this style of mixdown and sub heavy music is 95% of what i play