New Studio Monitors need help picking one

[Druma]

Hello, I’m David (Druma). I’m new to the forum. I’m a mixing/mastering engineer from Germany and I’m looking for some advice on studio monitors.

My journey started with the Tannoy Gold 8, which we don’t talk about. I then switched to the Adam Audio A5X with an Adam Audio Sub 8. Recently I decided it was time for something different. The Adams were great, really great, but I found integrating the sub challenging – I don’t really know why to be honest.

I worked at O2 Music Studios in Hamburg for a while and the speakers there were amazing (ATC/Quested). Of course, you can’t really compare them to my setup.

Back to the topic: I then followed the Palmer Orbit 11 thread and pulled the trigger. I tested them for about 20 days with room correction (ARC X in this case). My room is treated, but it’s really challenging. The walls are thin and, even after a lot of treatment, I still hear a tiny bit of reverb at my listening position. I also have the typical dip at 70–100 Hz. On the Palmer measurement it was about -3 dB on the left and -6 dB on the right, probably because there is a pillar sticking out on the right side.

The Palmer sounded great, to be honest. My mixes, and especially my masters, sounded better than ever. But I really don’t like the stereo width. Everything happens between the speakers, not really outside of them. I also found that in my room I couldn’t exactly pinpoint hi-hats that are flying around me or other moving elements. To be fair, it could be my room, but I didn’t have these problems with my Adams. The Palmer did a great job with front‑to‑back depth and layering though.

So my question now is: what should I get or try next? My budget depends, to be honest. I still have the Adam Audio Sub 8, so I could get something that works with that, but I really don’t want Adam Audio speakers again. They sound harsh to me and it feels like something is missing, especially in the midrange. The midrange on the Palmer was great – obviously, it’s a 3‑way speaker.

One thing I should mention is that most of the issues I had with the sub were in the side information. It felt like I couldn’t really hear the 80–120 Hz range in the sides. My crossover was at 85 Hz. Lower than that I had a huge dip. With the Palmer, everything was full in the stereo field.

So the budget would be around 2.5k for the pair. I could go a bit higher, but it would need to be worth it. Another thing I should mention: the speakers are typically 1.6 m away from me. I have a big monitor because I also use this space for gaming. My room is 20 m² and I mix at around 75–80 dBC (slow).

I also totally forgot to bypass my room correction in the low end, so the lowest frequencies probably didn’t even reach my listening position.

Yeah, I already want to thank all of you for any advice I get and I will reply to every comment. Thank you.

 

[Bear Cub Studio]

Hey David! Looks like you beat me here by a couple of days — nice to meet you!

The Palmer Orbit 11 is a seriously cool speaker. And having worked at a studio with ATC/Quested — that's an enviable experience for sure.

Sorry to hear you're dealing with a tricky room. That 70–100 Hz dip is super common in home studios. SBIR is likely a factor, and if your ceiling is around 2.4 m with speakers at ear height, you'll almost always run into trouble around 70 Hz. The usual approach is to fine-tune speaker placement using something like REW's RoomSim to get in the right ballpark, and then add bass traps to tame the modes.

As for the left-right imbalance — that can be tough when the room isn't symmetrical in layout or wall materials, but it's not a lost cause. Properly treating first reflections helps a lot. One thing worth trying is placing absorbers at matching positions on both sides of your listening position, ideally freestanding and pulled away from the walls so you can experiment with placement

About the narrow stereo image on the Palmer — my guess is that it comes down to the tightly controlled directivity, including the coaxial design. Coaxial speakers tend to reduce strong early reflections, especially from the side walls. That gives you a great sense of front-to-back depth, but the lateral spread can feel narrower in return. With the Adams, the side-wall reflections were probably giving you a sense of width, so switching to the Palmer made the stereo image feel comparatively narrower. Since the Palmer is actually more accurate, it might be that the change in speakers simply exposed room-related issues in your stereo imaging that were previously masked.

Your preferences are pretty clear: the Adams felt harsh up top and thin in the mids, while the Palmer nailed the midrange and depth but lacked width. So it sounds like what you're after is something with a solid midrange that also gives you a bit more spread. With that in mind, the speakers that come to mind for me are the Neumann KH 120 II or KH 150. They're well balanced, the lateral image isn't overly wide but it's not overly tight either, and they do depth really well. Pair them with a KH 750 DSP sub and you'd have a great system. Two subs would give you even faster convergence and a more even low end, but even a single one goes a long way for anchoring and checking your low frequencies. Neumann's built-in DSP correction across the mains and sub is well regarded, and the fact that it runs standalone — no software to launch — is a real plus. So my recommendation would be KH 120 II + KH 750. I know that pushes past your 2.5k budget, sorry about that.

Alternatively, it might be worth putting that budget toward room treatment instead. If you demo the KH 120 II and don't feel a dramatic improvement, that could be a sign that the room is the bigger bottleneck. I'm mostly familiar with acoustic treatment products available in Japan, so I might not be the best person to recommend specific brands for you — but some quick wins would be: treat first reflections properly, put bass traps in the corners to knock down low-frequency modes, and if you have a sofa, place it behind your listening position so it doubles as a makeshift bass trap.

I'd say starting with a KH 120 II demo and tackling the low end in your room is probably the most practical first step. Good luck, and feel free to ask if you have any questions!

 

[kemmler3D]

It sounds like you prefer wide directivity in the lower treble. Also since you have one "medium size" sub, having mains that will go low might help.

It's pushing your budget and definitely a lot of work compared to most options, but have a look at the Purifi SPK16 kit. I'm biased because I'm currently working on a 3D printable cabinet for them, but I've always thought the Purifi drivers are very interesting.

They will give you low bass extension, wide treble, and importantly, very even directivity, more so than the Adam or Palmer speakers. They also have extremely low distortion, to the point that you might need to acclimate before using them on mixes. People report thinking certain mixes sound thin on these drivers, before realizing they're just not used to hearing so little distortion.

 

[DVDdoug]

with an Adam Audio Sub 8

I haven't heard that sub and size isn't everything, but it SEEMS small if you want to reproduce the realistic sound of a kick drum of bass guitar.

But I really don’t like the stereo width. Everything happens between the speakers, not really outside of them.

Well... The sound is REALLY coming from the two monitors (plus reflected sound). Everything else is an illusion and your listeners with their different room, speakers, and brain will experience it differently. Of course, there are "widening" effects, usually involving phase shifting and phase inversion, but I'd be careful with them.

Headphones with good bass can be used to double-check the bass as long as you know what a good mix sounds like on your particular headphones.

If you get "better" monitors you'll have to learn what a good mix sounds like on them. You don't want "bad" monitors but your goal is to make a good production more than to get "good sound" in your studio.

 

[kemmler3D]

I haven't heard that sub and size isn't everything, but it SEEMS small if you want to reproduce the realistic sound of a kick drum of bass guitar.


Well... The sound is REALLY coming from the two monitors (plus reflected sound). Everything else is an illusion and your listeners with their different room, speakers, and brain will experience it differently. Of course, there are "widening" effects, usually involving phase shifting and phase inversion, but I'd be careful with them.

Headphones with good bass can be used to double-check the bass as long as you know what a good mix sounds like on your particular headphones.

If you get "better" monitors you'll have to learn what a good mix sounds like on them. You don't want "bad" monitors but your goal is to make a good production more than to get "good sound" in your studio.

Yes, per the above, despite my recommendation, I'd be wary of monitors that project a stereo image that apparently comes from beyond the speakers. As Doug mentions this is a room effect and room effects won't translate as well... it sounds like your room is well-treated, but it's just something to be aware of as you narrow down your choices.

 

[Druma]

Hey David! Looks like you beat me here by a couple of days — nice to meet you!

The Palmer Orbit 11 is a seriously cool speaker. And having worked at a studio with ATC/Quested — that's an enviable experience for sure.

Sorry to hear you're dealing with a tricky room. That 70–100 Hz dip is super common in home studios. SBIR is likely a factor, and if your ceiling is around 2.4 m with speakers at ear height, you'll almost always run into trouble around 70 Hz. The usual approach is to fine-tune speaker placement using something like REW's RoomSim to get in the right ballpark, and then add bass traps to tame the modes.

As for the left-right imbalance — that can be tough when the room isn't symmetrical in layout or wall materials, but it's not a lost cause. Properly treating first reflections helps a lot. One thing worth trying is placing absorbers at matching positions on both sides of your listening position, ideally freestanding and pulled away from the walls so you can experiment with placement

About the narrow stereo image on the Palmer — my guess is that it comes down to the tightly controlled directivity, including the coaxial design. Coaxial speakers tend to reduce strong early reflections, especially from the side walls. That gives you a great sense of front-to-back depth, but the lateral spread can feel narrower in return. With the Adams, the side-wall reflections were probably giving you a sense of width, so switching to the Palmer made the stereo image feel comparatively narrower. Since the Palmer is actually more accurate, it might be that the change in speakers simply exposed room-related issues in your stereo imaging that were previously masked.

Your preferences are pretty clear: the Adams felt harsh up top and thin in the mids, while the Palmer nailed the midrange and depth but lacked width. So it sounds like what you're after is something with a solid midrange that also gives you a bit more spread. With that in mind, the speakers that come to mind for me are the Neumann KH 120 II or KH 150. They're well balanced, the lateral image isn't overly wide but it's not overly tight either, and they do depth really well. Pair them with a KH 750 DSP sub and you'd have a great system. Two subs would give you even faster convergence and a more even low end, but even a single one goes a long way for anchoring and checking your low frequencies. Neumann's built-in DSP correction across the mains and sub is well regarded, and the fact that it runs standalone — no software to launch — is a real plus. So my recommendation would be KH 120 II + KH 750. I know that pushes past your 2.5k budget, sorry about that.

Alternatively, it might be worth putting that budget toward room treatment instead. If you demo the KH 120 II and don't feel a dramatic improvement, that could be a sign that the room is the bigger bottleneck. I'm mostly familiar with acoustic treatment products available in Japan, so I might not be the best person to recommend specific brands for you — but some quick wins would be: treat first reflections properly, put bass traps in the corners to knock down low-frequency modes, and if you have a sofa, place it behind your listening position so it doubles as a makeshift bass trap.

I'd say starting with a KH 120 II demo and tackling the low end in your room is probably the most practical first step. Good luck, and feel free to ask if you have any questions!

thank you really much for that in depth respoond im currently trying the hedd type 20 mk2 to see what more expensive speakers can do i moved a bit in my room and found a good place for them they sound good but the room is the real bottleneck i already have 40cm thick bass traps behind the speakers i cant do really much behind me its blocked by my bed and stuff i will also now upgrade my absorbers to thicker ones and also more of them i currently have a few but they are just foam not cheap foam but not the best to be exact i will install 10cm instead of 5 with a 5cm air gap and also a bigger cloud i spoke to someone that studies stuff like this and he helped me picking the right things

i will also take a look at the neumanns i heard good things about them and a sub with dsp was also in my mind

overall thank you for the comment

 

[Druma]

I haven't heard that sub and size isn't everything, but it SEEMS small if you want to reproduce the realistic sound of a kick drum of bass guitar.


Well... The sound is REALLY coming from the two monitors (plus reflected sound). Everything else is an illusion and your listeners with their different room, speakers, and brain will experience it differently. Of course, there are "widening" effects, usually involving phase shifting and phase inversion, but I'd be careful with them.

Headphones with good bass can be used to double-check the bass as long as you know what a good mix sounds like on your particular headphones.

If you get "better" monitors you'll have to learn what a good mix sounds like on them. You don't want "bad" monitors but your goal is to make a good production more than to get "good sound" in your studio.

thats true i have a few reference songs where it seems like the sound is coming from the outside i also know that this is done with some sort of binaural plugin (i also use theese plugins) adn every monitor i listened too had some sort of coming from the outside the orbits are just on the narrow side but if i think about it i could live with that in another comment i mentiond that im currently testing the hedd type 20 and the difference isnt that big compared to the orbits of course you get better transients, better high end, and also i can hear reverb tails really really well but the orbits are also pretty good at theese things i will try neumanns adn then i will decide i think

for the headphone comments i started with headphone mixes i have beyerdynamic dt 1990 and 1770 with eq on it i also have expensive iems also with eq but the feeling you get with speakers is just unbeatable i cant get the low end right with headphones


and the learning factor is also true you get better with the speaker after some time but if the montior is good you can get to a bassline pretty fast i achived that with the orbits and im pretty sure i will also get that with the hedds its just a matter of translation and what i like the most when i hear it on headphone or in the car

 

[Druma]

Yes, per the above, despite my recommendation, I'd be wary of monitors that project a stereo image that apparently comes from beyond the speakers. As Doug mentions this is a room effect and room effects won't translate as well... it sounds like your room is well-treated, but it's just something to be aware of as you narrow down your choices.

i also thank you for that and i agree like i said in my post i have worked in a studio for a bit so i know that a lot of that is not so good i probably should have worded it better

 

[Eric Natural]

...The Adams were great, really great, but I found integrating the sub challenging – I don’t really know why to be honest.

My little hobbist studio room sounded lousy until ARC.4 and now v.X = great
using an 8" monitor without subwoofer successfully here, dunno what 8" models might be avail in Ger.
best of luck