New Stereophile measurements of Weiss DAC204

[mikethep]

Stereophile has just posted their measurements of the Weiss DAC204:

Weiss DAC204 D/A processor Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the Weiss DAC204 using my Audio Precision SYS2722, repeating some of the testing with the magazine's higher-resolution APx555 analyzer. I used optical and coaxial S/PDIF data—the TosLink input accepted data sampled at rates up to...

www.stereophile.com

 

[staticV3]

Jitter, noise and distortion on par with a $90 DAC from SMSL, congrats to Weiss Engineering

Add a few zeroes for profit and exploitees will stand in line

 

[gizmo90]

Jitter, noise and distortion on par with a $90 DAC from SMSL, congrats to Weiss Engineering

Add a few zeroes for profit and exploitees will stand in line

The industry is insane isn't it? How much can we rip people off? Is that what they say when designing something?

 

[ckernel8]

"That makes the DAC204, the component I'm reviewing, a tantalizing value proposition at $3495, especially considering that it's a Weiss DAC through and through, designed by Daniel and built entirely in Switzerland."

lololol. "tantalizing value proposition". Sure. What an absolute clown industry. It even looks like shit.

I didn't even know you could still buy crappy green through-hole LEDs like it's 2001. Truly a testament to incredible engineering.

 

[G|force]

"their money is going toward producing the best sound possible and not a fancy, expensive case."

 

[Matias]

Weiss DAC204 - 3500 USD
"state of the digital art"

Topping DX5 II - 350 USD
Plus powerful HP amp, DSP, display...

 

[fatoldgit]

You don't know how lucky you are... $3500...luxury!!!

Down my way it goes for 8K and no we don't earn 2x the salaries in the US or elsewhere and of course every other expense in our lives are inflated.

No dream of a stable 30 year mortgage. Banks offer 6 month,12 month,18 month,24 month,36 month,48 month and 60 month.. most people do 2 or 3 year and hope for the best.

I am lucky, haven't had a mortgage since the 80's (when interest rates were ~18%) but did manage to get onto the housing ladder and stay there but credit costs in Kiwi Land have always been high (the 80's, as noted, was exceptional though)

 

[fatoldgit]

I had a look at the internals and it seems the reason it is so high and square is they have a motherboard/daughter board layout with them stacked on top of each other... I assume to reduce signal distances but it sure is ugly.

At a minimum they could have stuck the toggle switches at the back and leave the lights on the front.

Peter

 

[John Atkinson]

Weiss DAC204 - 3500 USD
"state of the digital art"

Topping DX5 II - 350 USD
Plus powerful HP amp, DSP, display...

It is not appropriate to take just one measurement, the harmonic distortion spectrum, to contradict my conclusion that the Weiss DAC204's "The measured performance of the Weiss 204 is state of the digital art." If you look at the complete set of measurements at the link below, you will note that as well as both harmonic and intermodulation distortion still being extremely low in level, the DAC204 offers vanishingly low linearity error down to –120dBFS with 24-bit data, an extremely low noisefloor with a measured resolution of 21 bits, and complete rejection of data-related jitter. Taken together, this led to my conclusion.

Weiss DAC204 D/A processor Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the Weiss DAC204 using my Audio Precision SYS2722, repeating some of the testing with the magazine's higher-resolution APx555 analyzer. I used optical and coaxial S/PDIF data—the TosLink input accepted data sampled at rates up to...

www.stereophile.com

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

 

[Matias]

I respectfully disagree and stand by what I wrote. Excelling in 3 out of 4 metrics but having "average" harmonic distortion by today's standards is not state of the art. Specially when alternatives excel in all of them for a fraction of the price.

 

[Palladium]

I respectfully disagree and stand by what I wrote. Excelling in 3 out of 4 metrics but having "average" harmonic distortion by today's standards is not state of the art. Specially when alternatives excel in all of them for a fraction of the price.

I can't believe you actually want to demand performance to scale with the asking price, what kind of unreasonable weirdo are you? *snicker*

 

[DSJR]

I respectfully disagree and stand by what I wrote. Excelling in 3 out of 4 metrics but having "average" harmonic distortion by today's standards is not state of the art. Specially when alternatives excel in all of them for a fraction of the price.

I agree that the price for what is now a commodity item in the audio world is ridiculously high, but the kind of well off retiree (?) that would probably buy this thing, wouldn't dream of lowering his sights to a far eastern made SMSL, Fosi or (horror of horrors ) Topping, even if the performance of the latter brands can be broadly similar...

Thing is, gear made in Switzerland (or even the UK for that matter) is always going to be multiples more expensive to make than a lot of far eastern boxes made often for a very few dollars per box.

 

[ckernel8]

I respectfully disagree and stand by what I wrote. Excelling in 3 out of 4 metrics but having "average" harmonic distortion by today's standards is not state of the art. Specially when alternatives excel in all of them for a fraction of the price.

But have you considered how the boutique, Swiss DAC makes an audiophile *feel*?!

 

[voodooless]

But have you considered how the boutique, Swiss DAC makes an audiophile *feel*?!

Isn’t the argument always that you have to listen?

 

[Scytales]

It is not appropriate to take just one measurement, the harmonic distortion spectrum, to contradict my conclusion that the Weiss DAC204's "The measured performance of the Weiss 204 is state of the digital art." If you look at the complete set of measurements at the link below, you will note that as well as both harmonic and intermodulation distortion still being extremely low in level, the DAC204 offers vanishingly low linearity error down to –120dBFS with 24-bit data, an extremely low noisefloor with a measured resolution of 21 bits, and complete rejection of data-related jitter. Taken together, this led to my conclusion.

Weiss DAC204 D/A processor Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the Weiss DAC204 using my Audio Precision SYS2722, repeating some of the testing with the magazine's higher-resolution APx555 analyzer. I used optical and coaxial S/PDIF data—the TosLink input accepted data sampled at rates up to...

www.stereophile.com

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

Mr @John Atkinson,

Can you please state the sample rate at which the published harmonic distortion FFT has been taken ?

 

[amirm]

Taken together, this led to my conclusion.

We are used to much better performance around here. I am puzzled by the jitter test:

If this is J-test, why is the spectrum of the square wave missing? Here is a comparison to a $300 DAC (with 48 kHz sampling):

You can see the square wave being resolved on the left. But I don't see that in your measurement. Ignoring that bit, pun intended, the rest of the response is just as clean as the Weiss (note that I go down to -160 dB vs your -150 dB).

We don't use the same measurement protocol but this $300 DAC also gets "21" bits of dynamic range (you call it resolution):

Using the same protocol, the Weiss 205 struggles to produce the same dynamic range even when allowed to go up to 7.9 volts out:

You spoke of IMD. The 205's performance is not in the same class as the Topping:

Here is the Topping:

I hope you see that compared to what we are used to, the Weiss DAC is not state of the art.

No question that compared to much of what goes on in high-end audio, the Weiss is class leading but compared to what we see, it is yesterday's news at high prices.

 

[JSmith]

I performed a full set of measurements on the Weiss DAC204 using my Audio Precision SYS2722, repeating some of the testing with the magazine's higher-resolution APx555 analyzer.

Why keep using the SYS2722 when you now have access to an APx555?


JSmith

 

[Sokel]

They may used leds to avoid an I²S isolation solution (when done right) for a display but the result is plain ugly.
I like Weiss and never was about the aesthetics, but this one...

 

[JSmith]

I like Weiss

Me too... but not the DAC's;

JSmith

 

[TheKoC]

"That makes the DAC204, the component I'm reviewing, a tantalizing value proposition at $3495, especially considering that it's a Weiss DAC through and through, designed by Daniel and built entirely in Switzerland."

lololol. "tantalizing value proposition". Sure. What an absolute clown industry. It even looks like shit.

View attachment 467066
I didn't even know you could still buy crappy green through-hole LEDs like it's 2001. Truly a testament to incredible engineering.

Gives "high school science lab" vibes