New Speakers Advice

[NTomokawa]

So you went for the KH80 after all? Glad you're liking them! I'm honestly surprised that you're getting much bass from those 4" drivers, though.

cries in Yamaha

 

[napilopez]

So you went for the KH80 after all? Glad you're liking them! I'm honestly surprised that you're getting much bass from those 4" drivers, though.

cries in Yamaha

That's how i felt too. It's just the neumann is perfectly linear until about 60hz and rather than the slow roll-off you'd normally get with small speakers you get flat FR until it drops off steeply. Basically there's whole bunch of bass until there's none of it.

With placement near the front wall, you can extend that to like 50Hz with a little bit of energy in the 40z..Almost No sub-bass to speak of, but for most bass content sounds as punchy as some much bigger speakers.

 

[LTig]

That's how i felt too. It's just the neumann is perfectly linear until about 60hz and rather than the slow roll-off you'd normally get with small speakers you get flat FR until it drops off steeply. Basically there's whole bunch of bass until there's none of it.

With placement near the front wall, you can extend that to like 50Hz with a little bit of energy in the 40z..Almost No sub-bass to speak of, but for most bass content sounds as punchy as some much bigger speakers.

Just like the Genelec 8020a in my wifes room, close to the wall. You would not believe the full sound of electric bass guitars coming out of these tiny 4" "woofers". Slam of the bass drum is totally missing though.

 

[altamira]

Look i just say one thing whenever i come home i just want to listen to them. hahahaha As promised photo attached.
Anyway about the bass, no its not bombastic/explosive, but it is clean, precise, incisive, no distortion, for the power it has of course, i like that. Probably in other circumstances and for other reasons i believe a dedicated subwoofer makes sense for the extra range.
I have them separated by around 80cm. Do you think i would gain much in distancing them more? The equilateral triangle makes sense?

 

[q3cpma]

Look i just say one thing whenever i come home i just want to listen to them. hahahaha As promised photo attached.
Anyway about the bass, no its not bombastic/explosive, but it is clean, precise, incisive, no distortion, for the power it has of course, i like that. Probably in other circumstances and for other reasons i believe a dedicated subwoofer makes sense for the extra range.
I have them separated by around 80cm. Do you think i would gain much in distancing them more? The equilateral triangle makes sense?

Looks nice, but you indeed need more toe-in. Since nearfield monitors are all about direct sound, yes, the equilateral triangle more than "makes sense".
With your picture, I really realise how steep/deep the waveguide is.

 

[mirceat]

The recommended distances between the loudspeakers and your listening position from the operating manual https://en-de.neumann.com/file-finder?product=KH 80 DSP A G&category=monitors :
• Minimum: 0.50 m (2')
• Recommended: 0.8–1.75 m (2'6"–6')
• Maximum: 3.0 m (9')
Then some toe-in is recommended as well:
The acoustical axis of the KH 80 DSP is located at the midpoint of the bass and tweeter drivers.
Always point the acoustical axis, in the horizontal and vertical planes, towards the listening position.
You could play with the toe-in and tilting angle, when possible. The acoustical axis should aim at your ears or behind them.

 

[altamira]

I believe is more or less like this...?
It seems the sound became more open spaced but at the same time weaker, less bass i believe. Something definitely changed. I changed the position on the back of the speakers from small desk to free standing. I will test more.

 

[LTig]

The recommended distances between the loudspeakers and your listening position from the operating manual https://en-de.neumann.com/file-finder?product=KH 80 DSP A G&category=monitors :
• Minimum: 0.50 m (2')
• Recommended: 0.8–1.75 m (2'6"–6')
• Maximum: 3.0 m (9')
Then some toe-in is recommended as well:
The acoustical axis of the KH 80 DSP is located at the midpoint of the bass and tweeter drivers.
Always point the acoustical axis, in the horizontal and vertical planes, towards the listening position.
You could play with the toe-in and tilting angle, when possible. The acoustical axis should aim at your ears or behind them.

The Neumanns (actually all good nearfield monitors) should be toed in 30 degree if your listening triangle is 60 degree. If in doubt consult the manual.

A not well known technique is to toe speakers in more than 30 degree so the axes of both speakers cross before the listening position (LP). This increases the sweet spot and makes sense if you want to move left and right while listening:

• If you move the LP left the distance to the left speaker (LS) decreases and the one to the right speaker (RS) increases, so SPL of the LS is higher and SPL of the RS is lower. With normal toe in the image center shifts to the left.
• With toe in above 30 degree the LP moves into the axis of the RS and away of the axis of the LS, so SPL of the mid and high frequencies (where the hearings sense is more sensitive to position) is lower for LS and higher for RS. This counteracts the SPL change due to the change in distance and shifts the image center to the right.

 

[daftcombo]

I agree with LTig that more than 30 toe-in can give great results.
As for me, I like monitors to fire straight, without toe-in. It is not orthodox but I enjoy that.

 

[altamira]

great. I toed them in a bit more. Also i removed the foam isolation pads (i bought seperate) under the speakers and just applied the self-adhesive feet that come with the speakers (forgot about them earlier). The sound improved.
Seems the small rubber feet works better than a isolation pad (is it possible that isolation pads, cheap ones, buffer/dampen the sound a bit, specially bass?)

 

[q3cpma]

No, it's bull. See http://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm

 

[altamira]

Hi everybody. Just passing by. Im really loving these speakers. Great clarity and sound sharpness. Now about the bass... Yes ocasionally i feel the bass is lacking, depending on what kind of music im listening or movie im watching. I mean the overall sound projection is amazing for the size, but the bass is a bit contained giving sometimes a "dry"/cold sound. By the way i had the opportunity to listen to the Adam monitors. They are great also, obviously the bass is explosive comparatively. But yes they were at the shop "showroom" all setup properly. Maybe next month i will start to look for a subwoofer at least to get a good/"complete" setup for the next years. Dont know about budget right now. Also i hope a dedicated subwoofer wont be "too much" for the room size even if i altered/reshaped the room space. Will see...

 

[Willem]

With subwoofers, the challenge is to deal effectively with the room modes that they excite. The best advice is to use at least two small ones rather than one big one, and apply dsp room eq of one kind or another.

 

[daftcombo]

Hi everybody. Just passing by. Im really loving these speakers. Great clarity and sound sharpness. Now about the bass... Yes ocasionally i feel the bass is lacking, depending on what kind of music im listening or movie im watching. I mean the overall sound projection is amazing for the size, but the bass is a bit contained giving sometimes a "dry"/cold sound. By the way i had the opportunity to listen to the Adam monitors. They are great also, obviously the bass is explosive comparatively. But yes they were at the shop "showroom" all setup properly. Maybe next month i will start to look for a subwoofer at least to get a good/"complete" setup for the next years. Dont know about budget right now. Also i hope a dedicated subwoofer wont be "too much" for the room size even if i altered/reshaped the room space. Will see...

Hi Sir,

You probably saw that our host just measured your new speakers:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-80-dsp-monitor-review.11018/

They are flat down to 60Hz, which is sufficient for most music. Your feeling of lacking bass is probably more due to your installation on a desk, causing some annulations around 100Hz-200Hz. Try to stand instead of sitting and listen to a few tracks. You should feel more bass.

If I'm right, play with your speakers positionning before using your wallet again.

 

[altamira]

Thank you both. Yes it seems the bass improves a bit when standing.