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New Sony ES 8K AV Receiver Line STR-AZ7000ES STR-AZ5000ES STR-AZ3000ES STR-AZ1000ES

Quasey1

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As a Sony 7000ES owner, I understand. There are definitly omissions: bass mgmt, useless remote (they would have to improve it just to make it basic), and Auro3D upmixing. However since it all boils down to sound quality to me, I can't unhear what I am hearing from this unit. It's a keeper to me.
I'm glad to hear it, and certainly don't criticize the choice! In truth, my correction needs extend beyond the room ;-). Enjoy!!!
 
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Worked with Sony ES team. Some issues mostly resolved with the 7000ES.

1. Crestron Driver - Resolved -Factory Reset Unit, started from scratch on config, working as expected now.
2. Zone 2 - Resolved -Factory Reset Unit, started from scratch on config, working as expected now
3. Modulated buzz/hum/whine on any audio mode setting. You have to listen for it (it is very hard to hear over playing content (near impossible) but much easier to detect with no audio playing). Look forward to any suggestions there - a previous Denon did not have that issue

All-in-all now that its up and going, With Prestige Speakers on a 7.2.4 setup -the 360SSM is far more immersive and easier to setup than the Audyssey Equalization on a Denon 6500H. It took a few days to work through those first bugs, but without a doubt the logic on the Sony's AVR is far superior to the Denon. I am happy with it and will followup the more use I get out of it
 

RocShemp

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As a Sony 7000ES owner, I understand. There are definitly omissions: bass mgmt, useless remote (they would have to improve it just to make it basic), and Auro3D upmixing. However since it all boils down to sound quality to me, I can't unhear what I am hearing from this unit. It's a keeper to me.
How bad is the bass management? And does the auto calibration take into account two separate subs or not?
 

kalexan9

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How bad is the bass management? And does the auto calibration take into account two separate subs or not?
Definitely not independent sub cal, but according to Gene from Audioholics who did an interview with a Sony rep, it does't really do anything to the subs. You must use either a minidsp or a sub with an eq app.
 
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RocShemp

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Definitely not independent sub cal, but according to Gene from Audioholics who did an interview with a Sony rep, it does't really do anything to the subs. You must use either a minidsp or a sub with an eq app.
Well those are weird omissions. I get the ES line is made with professional installers in mind, and they are likely to do things their own way. However, I am surprised Sony didn't make the STR-AZ7000ES an all-in-one solution.
 

ban25

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I'm shocked to find that on this site, where people obsess over 1-2 dB of inaudible distortion, that anyone would accept audible noise being emitted to the speakers by the unit, let alone be happy about it!
 

GXAlan

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I'm shocked to find that on this site, where people obsess over 1-2 dB of inaudible distortion, that anyone would accept audible noise being emitted to the speakers by the unit, let alone be happy about it!

That is the power of 360 SSM.

It fits with the data showing that Stereo playback makes it harder to hear deficiencies in speakers (compared to mono). Imagine how much better sound field management can make things sound!
 

ban25

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That is the power of 360 SSM.

It fits with the data showing that Stereo playback makes it harder to hear deficiencies in speakers (compared to mono). Imagine how much better sound field management can make things sound!
I have a sneaking suspicion that 360SSM is nothing more than All Channel Stereo with a +10 dB bass boost. Louder always impresses. An easy way to verify is to record multi-channel analog out from the Pre-Outs and look at the waveform in something like Audition or Logic Pro.
 

GXAlan

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I have a sneaking suspicion that 360SSM is nothing more than All Channel Stereo with a +10 dB bass boost. Louder always impresses. An easy way to verify is to record multi-channel analog out from the Pre-Outs and look at the waveform in something like Audition or Logic Pro.

And you would be wrong. It's phantom speaker technology just like a phantom center with stereo, except it uses all of the speakers to do it.


1680201776658.png



Sony has been working with this tech for a long time

Yamaha and Trinnov have versions of this tech too.
 
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I'm shocked to find that on this site, where people obsess over 1-2 dB of inaudible distortion, that anyone would accept audible noise being emitted to the speakers by the unit, let alone be happy about it!
I am happy with the surround logic, the unit is already being warrantied out but the improvement in surround performance is worth an RMA headache (not ideal, but out of my control)

First runs have issues - I am not surprised, but I also would not accept that glitch long term.

IMO it speaks to the 360SSM and current customer support to still have a happy customer even with a bad unit
 

ban25

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And you would be wrong. It's phantom speaker technology just like a phantom center with stereo, except it uses all of the speakers to do it.


Sony has been working with this tech for a long time

Yamaha and Trinnov have versions of this tech too.
So if it's virtualized speakers, like a phantom center, I assume the listening position must be very precise, no?
 

GXAlan

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So if it's virtualized speakers, like a phantom center, I assume the listening position must be very precise, no?
No. Somewhat yes, but mostly no.

Think about a phantom center and how far you can sit off center and still have the center image be reasonable. Now imagine a LCR where everything is perfect. How much more can you move while still having the anchoring effect?

Now imagine that your center speaker is a bit too far to the right. You need to pull the sound toward the left and imagine I mix a bit of the center into the left.

If you sit at the far left, the center is too far right from ideal but the faint additional signal from the left will pull the image closer to left. now imagine you are at true center. The center speaker is louder and dominant but the left speaker will pull you a bit to the left.

Now think about this:
1680213661714.png



Are your left and right speakers slightly closer to you than your center? Or is your LCR all in the same row? If your speakers are in a row, theoretically playing a bit of sound back right should barely move your main speaker position but you have to be careful so as not to bleed too much audio.

Now imagine that with phase knowledge, group delay , and EQ what you could do to minimize counterproductive bleed…

So yes, it’s not infinite Star Trek holodeck technology but the more speakers you have the better.

NEXT scenario, and this is used by Sonos.

Imagine I have a good set of speakers which are flat to 80Hz and roll off to - 3 dB at 55Hz. I have a left channel signal asking for 55Hz at SPLs greater than my left channel can achieve. What happens if I play the content on the right speaker? Since our ability to localize SPLs below 80Hz is poor and definitely at 55Hz, it’s even worse, I can get the target response.

Sonos sound bars will play non directional bass on *all* LCR+height drivers to get a lot of bass from a small series of woofers.

Now imagine you have a sub. And your sub fills in the 55 Hz just fine. But it is actually at 20 Hz, that your sub is -3 dB from target. What if you mixed in that content around 20 Hz to every other speaker in your setup?

Now you get the idea.

You need to know the phase and frequency response of every speaker. You need to understand the 3D position of every speaker, not just distance. You need to be able to know how best to throw information around to get improved sound field rather than loss of precision. Maybe the corrections only works if you correct 10% rather 100% of the mismatch, etc.

The Sony HT-A9 works great. This was their proof of concept.
The Trinnov in the Sherwood R972 works great.

The STR-AZ is a wild card but it seems like it really does work for the rooms and speakers some of the early adopters have.
 

ban25

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Now imagine you have a sub. And your sub fills in the 55 Hz just fine. But it is actually at 20 Hz, that your sub is -3 dB from target. What if you mixed in that content around 20 Hz to every other speaker in your setup?
Interesting. Could this be why reviewers are reporting significantly boosted bass using 360SSM?
 

GXAlan

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Interesting. Could this be why reviewers are reporting significantly boosted bass using 360SSM?
No idea. I just know this is what Sony and Sonos do with their sound bars…. We need some REW measurements too.

Very possible. The same way the “computational photography” that is in a cell phone *should* be applicable for 24x36mm full frame sensors too, we haven’t seen an actual implementation that works really well except for autofocus.

On paper though, it does make sense. You can never get enough bass and if your speakers have *some* response down low, it could be used for additive effects as long as you don’t phase cancel everything out.
 

kalexan9

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I have a sneaking suspicion that 360SSM is nothing more than All Channel Stereo with a +10 dB bass boost. Louder always impresses. An easy way to verify is to record multi-channel analog out from the Pre-Outs and look at the waveform in something like Audition or Logic Pro.
Nope.
 

kalexan9

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I like the sound of this receiver very much and I think that I will end up keeping it despite its' flaws. The sound quality really makes up for it. However, I can understand why some would take a hard pass. Sony really really dropped the ball on the bass management which is totally non-existent. This is inexcusable. You are forced to use a minidsp or a sub with built in eq. No Auro3D is perplexing, but honestly, I'd have been shocked if Sony had added it. And the remote is a flat out joke. Having said that, I feel that it will get better with firmware updates.
 
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scuzmcdragonsmoke

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The feedback inside and outside ASR around these new Sony receivers has been all over the place and it’s a little jarring. Those on AZ1000ES and AZ3000ES are complaining about hardware issues, AZ5000ES users experiencing multiple bugs, and then there’s AZ7000ES owners who are praising their units more so with minimal issues. Only common issue that I’ve seen with the top model is 360SSM thinking the unit hasn’t calibrated after calibration. Talk about hardware variance across the board.

I tested both the AZ3000ES and an AZ5000ES with lackluster results around 360SSM and bass emphasized tuning post calibration. I’m just not sure if I want to put in the effort to test the AZ7000ES at this point because it might just end up being the same experience.

For those with the AZ7000ES, I’d love to get your take on reposted issues rather than just sound impressions.
I'm still evaluating my 7000ES. I've run into an issue where I can't engage 360 SSM. It keeps telling me that I have to finish calibration which I have done 3 times already. When I press the button on the remote, it says: 360SSM OFF (Fixed). I don't know if it is my error or what. I also experienced the center channel setup error, but I think it was my fault. When I switched the CC input (top one) on the back, all was fine. Setup was super easy. As a matter of fact it was as easy as I've seen in a receiver. And 360 SSM, or no 360 SSM, the detail retrieval in the processing of this unit with movie soundtracks is indeed next level from what I've heard so far. I am truly impressed and can't wait to see what 360 SSM can do. I spent an hour listening to my RZ50 before hooking up the 7000ES, but after giving the Sony a listen, the difference in detail resolution was VERY evident and not subtle at all. As for misses, I think Sony struck out with the useless remote at this price (which is the same as the Sony HT-A9). Also, the display is not very good (too small and too dim). The removable panel is a swing and a miss, but to me , the biggest let down is the absence of a bass management solution - I was hoping to be able to ditch the minidsp hd, but I will be keeping it. Music reproduction is incredible - especially the 360 music demo. Even though I'm still evaluating, I am impressed overall (and haven't even tried 360 SSM yet). Is it worth $3300???? Hell no! It's overpriced like everything else. This should (imo) be a $2300 receiver. Still evaluating over the next few weeks, but I will answer questions best I can.
kalexan9 - thank for all these posts - I have a question!

I picked up the str- AN1000 last night and can only turn on (and off) 360SSM while in the "AUTO FORMAT decoding for movies" . Other modes I get the dreaded 360SSM OFF (Fixed) message. Is this the way it should be operating? Or should I be able to turn on 360SSM over any sound mode? Thanks to anyone for a reply. 1st time posting here. Cheers guys. So far so good on my new STR-AN1000, coming from a 2017 str-DH790. It feels (and sounds) like a pretty nice upgrade, I'm still dialing in the sound we want...
 

kalexan9

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kalexan9 - thank for all these posts - I have a question!

I picked up the str- AN1000 last night and can only turn on (and off) 360SSM while in the "AUTO FORMAT decoding for movies" . Other modes I get the dreaded 360SSM OFF (Fixed) message. Is this the way it should be operating? Or should I be able to turn on 360SSM over any sound mode? Thanks to anyone for a reply. 1st time posting here. Cheers guys. So far so good on my new STR-AN1000, coming from a 2017 str-DH790. It feels (and sounds) like a pretty nice upgrade, I'm still dialing in the sound we want...
I will be doing more evaluations on my 7000ES and will have more info concerning this later. I have been busy with work and business trips and haven't gotten a chance to do anything other than on weekends. I was finally able to get 360 SSM working, and like you, I believe it was in AFD mode, but I have heard unconfirmed reports that it's available in other modes. I will definitely check and update..
 
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