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New SMSL A300 BTL Class-d Power Amp

Bleib

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Again, I don't know why you get stuck on typical power usage compared to max power consumption. Those are different numbers and they do not state max power consumption even though they should.
And to return to Denon AVR 3600, purchase a power usage meter and you'll in normal usage will not come anywhere near max power consumption number of 660w.

Another example, I've owned a Denon D-m39 which states (it sounds brilliant)
Power Consumption in W70
yet in normal use the power usage meter has never come close to 70w. It's been closer to 22w in normal use, in my case.
"Chi-fi" number they might state 30w or so instead. No max power consumption number.

Actually the A300 should play twice as loud at 25.
You don't know what 25 means from machine to machine. Lots of amps give lots of power early on, as others have stated.
 

Bleib

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Whataboutism helps nobody in the end ...
You're comparing different things.
Again. They-do-no-state-max-power-consumption-numbers

So. Measure them.

Lets go to another Denon I've owned. AVR-2308CI (source: Audioholics)

1675521810909.png

I've connected this to measure the watt usage from the wall too. In typical/normal use in 2 channel mode I've been closer to 54 watt power usage. It's plenty loud at this point.
This would be a number that these brands would rather give.
 
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almosely

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I will not answer about Whataboutism anymore.

But I would like to point out that my claim is also supported by the founder of this forum, in which he tested the Loxjie A30, which should actually be able to output 80 watts into 4 ohms, but only manages 40 watts.

Loxjie A30 Amplifier Review (by amirm himself)

Questioning claims made by manufacturers is the correct first step. When this is combined with personal, real-world experience, it only becomes more likely that manufacturer claims are not true. And so that something like this remains halfway within the legal range, it is at least said that the power consumption is significantly lower (in this case at 40 watts). and so that it is not noticeable that the performance is being tampered with, the words "normal" and "typical" are used here, without any explanation of what "normal" and "typical" could mean in the beginning. So, as long as the A300 isn't measured, I'm going to rely on what I'm actually hearing. One simple thing. As I said at the beginning, I just wanted to provide information here instead of sparking any unfounded discussions about it.
 

DanielT

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As I stated above, there is no typical or normal. What should that be? One likes it quiet, another one loud, the next uses 4 ohm speakers, another 8 ohm, the next is using an EQ, the next is using it outdoors, another one in his cellar, another one is half deaf, 80 years old, the next 14 years and so on. That is pure marketing.

But what is consistent, are all of those official statements about a power consumtion around 40 watts. What is not consistent, are the magical marketing phrases ranging from 70 to 165 watts per channel at 4 ohms.

I do not compare AB- with D-class amps. My response was regarding Bleib's statement: "You can find similar numbers to AVRs too which can have hundreds more watts than 2 channel amps. The Denon 3600 ...". So I just picked randomly two of them, where that is just not true. Further comments about that, please refer to Bleib, not me. Efficiency of AB-Amps is not my interest at all.

I can't "understand" what the gain value of the A300 is because there's no information about that neither about the one from the Loxjie A30. Could someone please measure the outcome regarding the volume knob of an A300 for me/us please and stop guessing? My comparison is based of two amps, standing next to another, used with the same speakers, the same sources, and the weaker one is louder at 25/60 and the much stronger one is equally loud with a higher 26/60 volume adjustment. Why should a gain setting be like that? That would make volume regulations above 26/60 jumping way too high. considering the double performance of the A300. Actually the A300 should play twice as loud at 25. But if it is just as loud as the half-powered Loxjie at 25, it would have to be four times as loud with the remaining 35 volume options, with only 35 setting options. That makes no sense. So, the more realistic guess is, that the amp just has less power then advertised. And a tangible support for this thesis is the specification of the watt consumption with only 40 watts. So, the one side has comprehensible, actually existing and experienced bases of an assumption, the other side relies exclusively on marketing statements. Which of these is more likely correct?
You cannot continuously / for a longer period of time take out more power than you put in. Had that been the case, the world's energy problems would have been solved.

However, you can temporarily withdraw energy that is stored. For how long time and how much depends on the construction of the power supply / amp.
 

Pippo

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For normal listening (15-25/60) my A300 uses 5-8watts, peak maybe ~12. Early mentioned and measured this morning 40/60 level, powermeter showed 52watts peak. From 25/60 volume and up, power usage increases and go up quiet fast. I'm very satisfied, because my class AB uses ~35watts only switched on. And really weak vs A300.
 

almosely

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@DanielT

It's RMS what SMSL is talking about (160 W @ 4 ohm), not peak.

@Pippo

So, maybe the A300 is putting out that high amount of watts, but why such a ridiculous gain setting for the volume knob? I will install the A300 once more and try it's behaviour above 25/60 until 30-35/60 but no higher and compare to the Loxjie these days. It's weekend, so I can't test that while my wife is within range.
 

almosely

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So, I had a small window of opportunity and used it.

I used the Wharfedale 12.2 and Bluetooth as the input. The Neutron Player served as the source. Just one specific song, just the chorus, ReplayGain is at 92dB, no EQ, nothing else activated within Neutron.

Wharfedale Diamond 12.2

I set the EQ mode to 0 (direct) on both the Loxjie A30 and SMSL A300. Within the A300 I also adjusted to "br0" (stereo mode) and "hf0" (without high-pass).

I sat down 3m away, played the chorus of one song and averaged the SPL over the chorus using the AudioTools APP while holding my Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G next to my ear, pointing straight forward.

Loxjie A30: 30/60 volume -> 77dB
A300: 30/60 volume -> 75dB

Loxjie A30: 35/60 volume -> 84 dB
A300: 35/60 volume -> 82dB

And I would like to mention that 84 dB is much too loud for me to listen to music in general. Even the 77 dB are too loud for my ears.

So something is wrong, that does not make sense. Either amirm measured the Loxjie wrong or the A300 is defective or a fake or just not strong enough or ... I don't know. I bought the A300 from amazon.de from "SMSL Hifi Store":

https://www.amazon.de/sp?ie=UTF8&se...illed=1&asin=B0B2ZD2CLC&ref_=olp_merch_name_1

And I could hear high frequency hissing on the a300 at zero volume, even though I turned the display brightness to the lowest level. On the other hand, the loxjie is absolutely silent.
 
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DanielT

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So, I had a small window of opportunity and used it.

I used the Wharfedale 12.2 and Bluetooth as the input. The Neutron Player served as the source. Just one specific song, just the chorus, ReplayGain is at 92dB, no EQ, nothing else activated within Neutron.

Wharfedale Diamond 12.2

I set the EQ mode to 0 (direct) on both the Loxjie A30 and SMSL A300. Within the A300 I also adjusted to "br0" (stereo mode) and "hf0" (without high-pass).

I sat down 3m away, played the chorus of one song and averaged the SPL over the chorus using the AudioTools APP while holding my Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G next to my ear, pointing straight forward.

Loxjie A30: 30/60 volume -> 77dB
A300: 30/60 volume -> 75dB

Loxjie A30: 35/60 volume -> 84 dB
A300: 35/60 volume -> 82dB

And I would like to mention that 84 dB is much too loud for me to listen to music in general. Even the 77 dB are too loud for my ears.

So something is wrong, that does not make sense. Either amirm measured the Loxjie wrong or the A300 is defective or a fake or just not strong enough or ... I don't know. I bought the A300 from amazon.de from "SMSL Hifi Store":

https://www.amazon.de/sp?ie=UTF8&se...illed=1&asin=B0B2ZD2CLC&ref_=olp_merch_name_1

And I could hear high frequency hissing on the a300 at zero volume, even though I turned the display brightness to the lowest level. On the other hand, the loxjie is absolutely silent.
But what kind of volume control / volume pot is on them? See what notakosan wrote:
Volume knob position is not an indication of maximum power. Quite a few factors go into that. One biggest factor is whether the volume knob works in linear scale or exponential scale. Could be the case here.
 

DanielT

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And I could hear high frequency hissing on the a300 at zero volume, even though I turned the display brightness to the lowest level. On the other hand, the loxjie is absolutely silent.
Hm, try switching in different way you can.Different settings on the a300, different sources, change the output level on the DAC, switch cables, pull out and plug in cables, power cord and so on. If you did that, same result?
Same hiss if you test with Bluetooth?

Do you hear the same hiss if you turn the volume just a tiny bit? Or does it disappear then?
Hiss you hear in the speakers with no music on?
 
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Zek

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Loxjie A30: 30/60 volume -> 77dB
A300: 30/60 volume -> 75dB

Loxjie A30: 35/60 volume -> 84 dB
A300: 35/60 volume -> 82dB
To repeat what was said earlier: the numbers 30/60 and 35/60 say nothing about the maximum power of individual amplifiers.
Those numbers are just a benchmark for an amplifier as to how much relative power is engaged.
For each individual amplifier, these relations are not the same because they depend on how sensitive the amplifier is to the input signal, how much it has gain, how does the volume control work (linear or logarithmic), etc.
Either amirm measured the Loxjie wrong
What's wrong with Amirm measurement?
 

Repdetect

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Could we make some noise so that SMSL makes a firmware update which allows for the screen to be turned off automatically after say 5 seconds?
and how about using English alphabet characters on the display instead of alien characters.
 

antcollinet

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As I stated above, there is no typical or normal. What should that be? One likes it quiet, another one loud, the next uses 4 ohm speakers, another 8 ohm, the next is using an EQ, the next is using it outdoors, another one in his cellar, another one is half deaf, 80 years old, the next 14 years and so on. That is pure marketing.

But what is consistent, are all of those official statements about a power consumtion around 40 watts. What is not consistent, are the magical marketing phrases ranging from 70 to 165 watts per channel at 4 ohms.

I do not compare AB- with D-class amps. My response was regarding Bleib's statement: "You can find similar numbers to AVRs too which can have hundreds more watts than 2 channel amps. The Denon 3600 ...". So I just picked randomly two of them, where that is just not true. Further comments about that, please refer to Bleib, not me. Efficiency of AB-Amps is not my interest at all.

I can't "understand" what the gain value of the A300 is because there's to information about that neither about the one from the Loxjie A30. Could someone please measure the outcome regarding the volume knob of an A300 for me/us please and stop guessing? My comparison is based of two amps, standing next to another, used with the same speakers, the same sources, and the weaker one is louder at 25/60 and the much stronger one is equally loud with a higher 26/60 volume adjustment. Why should a gain setting be like that? That would make volume regulations above 26/60 jumping way too high. considering the double performance of the A300. Actually the A300 should play twice as loud at 25. But if it is just as loud as the half-powered Loxjie at 25, it would have to be four times as loud with the remaining 35 volume options, with only 35 setting options. That makes no sense. So, the more realistic guess is, that the amp just has less power then advertised. And a tangible support for this thesis is the specification of the watt consumption with only 40 watts. So, the one side has comprehensible, actually existing and experienced bases of an assumption, the other side relies exclusively on marketing statements. Which of these is more likely correct?
So what are you stating. That the amps cannot output the rated power?

Why do you think that? Because of the stated power consumption?

When you look at data you also have to consider the test conditions (Eg power consumption not measured at full ouput power)

All you concerns are because you don't understad the figures you are quoting, nor how the amplifiers work.
 

Bleib

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Yeah. Likely the measurements here are all lies
 

Zek

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Yeah. Likely the measurements here are all lies
The problem is with the data given in the specification: the THD value is given as minimum; the maximum power is given at THD 10%; the consumption of the amplifier is given as minimum - that means data that cannot be directly related to each other without a detailed look at the given graphs.
 

Bleib

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The problem is with the data given in the specification: the THD value is given as minimum; the maximum power is given at THD 10%; the consumption of the amplifier is given as minimum - that means data that cannot be directly related to each other without a detailed look at the given graphs.
As I see it about 2x50w is usable in 8 ohm, so this amp is not for really demanding loudspeakers and certainly not in big rooms. Unless using 2 of them at the same some time in BTL-mode.
In my own usage it uses about 11w during pretty loud music which I can't even always use. So 2 of them for my loudspeakers now would be pointless.
 
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Zek

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As I see it about 2x50w is usable in 8w
Yes, at THD 0.1% the power at 8 ohms is about 2X50-55W, which is quite satisfactory for most domestic conditions if the room is not too big.
 

Bleib

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Yes, at THD 0.1% the power at 8 ohms is about 2X50-55W, which is quite satisfactory for most domestic conditions if the room is not too big.
Yeah, the loudspeakers will have higher THD (and room reflections, loudspeakers placements will ruin the sound more). The neutral nature of this amplifier should suit a lot of people here at ASR.
 

Zek

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Of course, even the best speakers always have much greater distortion than amplifier.
 
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