Sigberg Audio Manta (12" wideband cardioid active speakers) development thread

[Absolute]

For a speaker it's the sum that counts. For me sudden shifts in directivity seems to be the worst offender after sharp resonances, so a normalized response is perhaps the best way to look for that during crossover work?

Been fiddling a bit lately with my diy M2's experimenting with different crossovers as the Beryllium driver I use are more capable at frequencies below 1 khz than the original D2430k. It's quite remarkable how much the crossover influence the sound. Very difficult to get it right without serious measurement capabilities.

I feel for small entrepreneurs trying to create the best speakers they can. Difficult choice of earning a living...

 

[CJH]

Some KEF coax driver testing here:
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/kef-r300-drive-unit/
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/kef-ls50-drive-unit/
CJH

 

[thewas]

Some KEF coax driver testing here:
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/kef-r300-drive-unit/
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/kef-ls50-drive-unit/
CJH

Mind you also the older, not current, generations.

 

[sigbergaudio]

A couple of pics from the Klippel measurement session

 

[Absolute]

Did you have to bring your own stand?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Did you have to bring your own stand?

Hehe, no it's a built-in semiautomatic stand. You can sit by the Klippel computer outside of the room and spin it by entering the required degrees on a control-thingy. This is a pretty old setup and room, which is why it looks a bit worn. Seas has been around for a while.

It's a reasonably large chamber, precise to around 65hz according to Seas.

 

[sigbergaudio]

You can see it spin slowly here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZSAPZFKdpO/

 

[sigbergaudio]

I've now plotted 90 degrees and 180 degrees off-axis for the Manta.1 prototype and generated a generic "traditional enclosure" based on data from a few similarily sized speakers with traditional sealed cabinets. I've also presented it as % energy (compared to on-axis) as opposed to decibel since it's easier to understand the true change in energy that way.

Compared to a traditional sealed cabinet, the Manta.1 has a more than 30% reduction in energy directly to the side, gradually decreasing to a reduction of more than 50% (actually closer to 60%) towards the rear.

That means significantly less in-room reflections.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Preliminary product description as well as preliminary specifications. Happy to get feedback on how you experience this description

• Passive dual cardioid enclosure
• Active 3-way speakers with coax and 12" midbass driver
• Pre-order expected to start summer 2022.
• Shipping expected to start late 2022.

THE SOUND OF MANTA.1​

• Voices are perfectly positioned, crystal clear and full of nerve, nuance and details.
• The soundstage is huge in all dimensions; depth, width, height. It's truly an immersive experience.
• The big soundstage is combined with pinpoint imaging. The loudspeakers disappear as instruments are just.. there. Accurately portrayed in three dimensions.
• The bass and lower midrange is presented with perfect transient response, speed and relentless punch no matter how loud you play.
• The treble is fresh, detailed and crisp without ever becoming hard or fatiguing.
• Music is reproduced in an accurate, enjoyable and effortless manner whether you prefer to play at moderate or ear bleeding levels.

WHY AND HOW IS MANTA.1 DIFFERENT?​

MANTA.1 looks different. It IS different. But not in an attempt to look cool or be fancy. It's a result of what we call functional design. Every detail has a clear and real function, and improves the way music is reproduced.

• As its sibling the SBS.1, the MANTA.1 speakers are designed to be paired with one or several subwoofers. We recognize that the midbass is so important to the drive and dynamics of most music, that we use a dedicated amplifier channel and dedicated high power, high sensitivity 12" driver to this frequency range.
• Cardioid midrange: The dedicated midrange chamber is vented to reduce reflections from the side walls and the wall behind the speakers. The result is increased clarity and improved soundstage. This is what gives the MANTA.1 its unique vocal performance, and ability to sound clear and tidy even on complex music productions. To perfect the midrange, ports are cut out on both sides of the coax driver to allow the midrange driver to "see" more narrow baffle, resulting in ideal dispersion characteristics across the frequency range.
• Cardioid bass: One would think you lost bass pressure by venting the cabinet, but when done right the very opposite is true. The MANTA.1 achieves cardioid like performance down to 100hz, targeting the bass pressure towards the listener. This tight and consistent midbass experience is crucial for the rhythmic, dynamic nature of many music genres.

PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS (SUBJECT TO CHANGE)​

• Type
  3-way (Total system with subwoofer adds up to 4-way)
  Passive dual cardioid cabinet with acoustic side vents
• Drivers / Amplifier:
  12" midbass, 5.5" midrange, 1" silk dome tweeter.
  Active 3-channel class D amplifier with DSP (650W per speaker)
• Equalizer / Room correction:
  Manual EQ, 9-band parametric
• Frequency response:
  95-20,000hz (+/-2dB)
  80-22,000hz (-6dB)
  22-22,000hz (+3/-6dB) (with subwoofer)
• Distortion:
  <0,5% THD @96dB/1m (per speaker)
• Max SPL@1m:
  ~116dB
• Inputs:
  Analog: RCA, XLR balanced (in/through)
  Digital: Optical, Coaxial/SPDIF (in/through), AES (in/through)
• Dimensions (WHD):
  350x600x350 mm
• Accessories:
  Power chord, USB-cable, magnetic detachable grille
• Weight:
  TBA
• Placement:
  MANTA.1 stainless steel stand (included)

 

[sigbergaudio]

Nice cover photo on the Audioholics facebook page today!

 

[sigbergaudio]

There's lots of tech and graphs in this thread, but ultimately it's of course all about the music. The development of a new loudspeaker is also a musical journey, as I spend countless hours listening to a lot of different music. The reason I do this is to understand and hear how the speakers behave across different genres.

I have an internal MANTA.1 playlist that slowly builds up with tracks as I find music that works particularly well, or perhaps have some element that DOESN'T work well. The latter tracks ends up as tools to perfect the sound. I've decided to release this as an official playlist, so that those who'd like to follow the "musical journey" towards a production ready MANTA.1 can do so. I'm working on finalizing the first version of the playlist, and hope to be able to share it tomorrow afternoon!

 

[Zvu]

When can we expect to see the result of measurements shown on your photos ?

 

[sigbergaudio]

When can we expect to see the result of measurements shown on your photos ?

Measurements were shared before the pictures actually, post #61 and #62 shows 0-90 as well as 180.

Sigberg Audio Manta (12" wideband cardioid active speakers) development thread

As mentioned in the SBS.1 thread, we've visited Seas and borrowed their Klippel. :) Which means we've verified the cardioid effect in a proper anechoic chamber. Here's 0 & 180 degrees. As can be seen, there's a reel effect all the way down, allthough somewhat limited under 200hz. From 600hz...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sigberg Audio Manta (12" wideband cardioid active speakers) development thread

As mentioned in the SBS.1 thread, we've visited Seas and borrowed their Klippel. :) Which means we've verified the cardioid effect in a proper anechoic chamber. Here's 0 & 180 degrees. As can be seen, there's a reel effect all the way down, allthough somewhat limited under 200hz. From 600hz...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Full NFS-style measurements aren't available as the facility didn't have the Klippel NFS module. This could have been generated manually, but I didn't do all the measurements necessary for that. I will go back there and measure again at a later date when the speakers are closer to being production ready.

 

[Zvu]

I don't know what what you mean by NFS style measurements.

I'd like to see frequency response at least +/-90degrees horizontal in 10degree increments and +/-30 degrees vertical in 5-10 degree increments.
Distortion at 90 and/or 95 dB at 2m distance and waterfall.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I don't know what what you mean by NFS style measurements.

I'd like to see at least +/-90degrees horizontal in 10degree increments and +/-30 degrees vertical in 5-10 degree increments.
Distortion at 90 and/or 95 dB and waterfall.

NFS style is what Erin and Amir typically shares. I don't have what you are requesting at this point - each measurement had to be taken manually and I had limited time in which to measure two different speakers. So I have 0-90 horizontal at 15 degrees increments (as shared), and not vertical measurements.

Next time I will get enough to create polar plots, listening window, sound power etc, so +/-180 degrees horizontal in 10 degree increments and +/-30 degrees vertical at 10 degrees increments. That will be a few months out probably.

 

[sigbergaudio]

@Zvu I can share some THD though. This is ~93dB@2m, so ~96-99db@1m (response isn't perfectly flat). Based on this I'm expecting us to be safely reach a THD below 0,5% THD@96dB.

 

[Zvu]

NFS style is what Erin and Amir typically shares...

What Amir and Erin typically share is ANSI/CTA-2034-A R-2020 protocol - "style". NFS is just a tool used to collect data and is certainly not the only one - just the fastest one.

 

[Zvu]

...... This is ~93dB@2m, so ~96-99db@1m (response isn't perfectly flat). Based on this I'm expecting us to be safely reach a THD below 0,5% THD@96dB.

That's cool.

Can't wait to see the rest

 

[sigbergaudio]

What Amir and Erin typically share is ANSI/CTA-2034-A R-2020 protocol - "style". NFS is just a tool used to collect data and is certainly not the only one - just the fastest one.

Yes, ANSI/CTA-2034 is what I was referring to. Sorry for being unclear.

 

[sigbergaudio]

That's cool.

Can't wait to see the rest

Thank you for your interest. It's still early days so the response isn't anywhere near final yet anyway. The main reason for bringing it was to verify the cardioid effect before moving on to a new cabinet iteration with higher finish.