• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

New setup from scratch - with DSP preferred

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
1,206
Likes
1,460
I accept the challenge! :D
will have to check out some REW documentation to see what it can do.

this is identical to what happened for me... well she didn't say "hmm" but she raised her eyebrows and then walked away.

---

now to choose speakers... I wonder... LS50 Meta are lovely with the coaxial, my friend has a pair, but... still can't fit a subwoofer. we tried turning off his subwoofer and disabled whatever EQ he has and it just sounded a bit boring without it.
UBR-62 also look interesting but seems to have a lot of mixed reviews.
R3 looks very interesting too, just worried about budget becoming 3500+ instead of 2500. I'm going to wait for Black Friday because of these though. they are so pretty, as well...

I'm also looking at the Kali Audio IN8-v2 as I saw hardisj doing a review of them. But I don't really know if they would work with DSP - or would they? I was under the impression they already have built in DSP which I fear would make them hard to EQ more.

other suggestions are definitely welcome.

Thank you very much everyone so far!
Don’t skimp on the speakers. If your budget is tight rather save on or even leave out electronics (except EQ, but that you can get cheap with a Pi or PC, at least for starters )
 

djtetei

Active Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
62
Location
România
@mvnchies
For a standard stereo setup all you need is a good DAC, a hight quality mixer, a 31 band graphic equaliser / speakers management system and an amplifier with enough headroom to drive your full range speakers to their full potential, if need be.
 
Last edited:
OP
mvnchies

mvnchies

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
100
Likes
46
Don’t skimp on the speakers. If your budget is tight rather save on or even leave out electronics (except EQ, but that you can get cheap with a Pi or PC, at least for starters )
Yeah I'm thinking it might be worth doing it that way to start... I just don't understand price:performance relationship, it seems like I can get better speakers for less in certain ways. admittedly, the best speakers I've ever heard was Revel Ultima Salon or however they're called - in a room EQ'd setup, with completely unknown DAC and amplifier.

I don't "need" to save money from my set budget, just trying to figure out what I can get at the budget I set out :) seems like speakers are the hardest to decide on, because good electronics should work universally for my use-case.

although, if I were to add a subwoofer in the future - I'm not sure how it works with the Flex. I guess because it has 4 outputs it can do it no problem?

KEF R3 looking better and better every time I read about them ... maybe I can sell a kidney hmm...

@mvnchies
For a standard stereo setup all you need is a good DAC, a hight quality mixer, a 31 band graphic equaliser / speakers management system and an amplifier with enough headroom to drive your full range speakers to their full potential, if need be.
I was thinking of these equalizer thingies but they take up so much space I don't think I even have enough space for it :(
but it is a nice idea to have something "physical" with EQ, and then use REW and a laptop to measure and correct. would just prefer to have something smaller.

Thank you!
 

tonycollinet

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
3,165
Likes
4,727
Location
UK/Cheshire
Yeah I'm thinking it might be worth doing it that way to start... I just don't understand price:performance relationship, it seems like I can get better speakers for less in certain ways. admittedly, the best speakers I've ever heard was Revel Ultima Salon or however they're called - in a room EQ'd setup, with completely unknown DAC and amplifier.

I don't "need" to save money from my set budget, just trying to figure out what I can get at the budget I set out :) seems like speakers are the hardest to decide on, because good electronics should work universally for my use-case.

although, if I were to add a subwoofer in the future - I'm not sure how it works with the Flex. I guess because it has 4 outputs it can do it no problem?

KEF R3 looking better and better every time I read about them ... maybe I can sell a kidney hmm...


I was thinking of these equalizer thingies but they take up so much space I don't think I even have enough space for it :(
but it is a nice idea to have something "physical" with EQ, and then use REW and a laptop to measure and correct. would just prefer to have something smaller.

Thank you!
You can't use a graphic equaliser for room correction - don't make that mistake.
 

djtetei

Active Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
62
Location
România
it is a nice idea to have something "physical" with EQ, and then use REW and a laptop to measure and correct. would just prefer to have something smaller.
In my previous answer to you, I mentioned "31 band equaliser/ speaker management system".
If you are not sure about a full blown equaliser in your setup, the alternative is a full blown speaker management system, which has built-in multiband equalisation, crossover and limiting features controlled by a DSP unit. This way, you can have multiple devices built-in to a single unit able to drive a multiway system. The speaker management system uses its own calibration microphone.
 
OP
mvnchies

mvnchies

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
100
Likes
46
You can't use a graphic equaliser for room correction - don't make that mistake.
okay, well that makes me feel more secure about the Flex - it seems like the perfect product for me, with its good DAC performance and all too :) cheers!

Don't fall into the trap of Stereo, get an AVR and start with a 3.1 setup.
I unfortunately don't have the room for all this - I would love to have a subwoofer as well, but it will have to wait.
centre channel is nice for TV use, definitely. just trying to keep it minimal. I appreciate the advice though, and I agree with it being nice!
most of the use will be music, however, where I find centre channel not as necessary.
In my previous answer to you, I mentioned "31 band equaliser/ speaker management system".
If you are not sure about a full blown equaliser in your setup, the alternative is a full blown speaker management system, which has built-in multiband equalisation, crossover and limiting features controlled by a DSP unit. This way, you can have multiple devices built-in to a single unit able to drive a multiway system. The speaker management system uses its own calibration microphone.
oh I see, I thought you were talking about something like a PEQ with lots of little toggles and switches.
do you have an example of the kind of product you are referring to?

thank you very much!
 

djtetei

Active Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
62
Location
România
do you have an example of the kind of product you are referring to?
You can take a look at DBX Driverack series or something similar.
And, by the way, you can use graphic equaliser for room eq. You just have to like the "hand on" approach.
Furthermore, I would invest more in the acoustical treatment of the room than in room equalisation stuff.
 
Last edited:

tonycollinet

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
3,165
Likes
4,727
Location
UK/Cheshire
You can take a look at DBX Driverack series or something similar.
And, by the way, you can use graphic equaliser for room eq. You just have to like the "hand on" approach.
Furthermore, I would invest more in the acoustical treatment of the room than in room equalisation stuff.
You normally need parametric eq for room correction, to allow you to precisely match each filter centre frequency and q/width to the room response.

Graphic equalisers typically have a number of fixed frequency fixed width filters, not very well suited to correcting room response. What do you do for example with a narrow room mode that falls directly between two of the eq bands?
 
OP
mvnchies

mvnchies

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
100
Likes
46
You can take a look at DBX Driverack series or something similar.
And, by the way, you can use graphic equaliser for room eq. You just have to like the "hand on" approach.
Furthermore, I would invest more in the acoustical treatment of the room than in room equalisation stuff.
You treat the "sucker".
Treat more, eq less.
ahh - I see. I unfortunately don't know much about room treatment and I can't put too much of it cause of well... it looking kind of funny :D

You normally need parametric eq for room correction, to allow you to precisely match each filter centre frequency and q/width to the room response.

Graphic equalisers typically have a number of fixed frequency fixed width filters, not very well suited to correcting room response. What do you do for example with a narrow room mode that falls directly between two of the eq bands?
this is what I was worried about too - I wasn't sure if you could program the filters "position" on the frequency band.

---

edit: I was wondering... if I get something like this:

but with a "wooden" bottom shelf or something. can I put a subwoofer on that? a smaller one maybe 8-10"...?
then I'm tempted to get LS50 Meta. WAF is high with those and I frankly love their sound with a subwoofer...

hmm hmm hmm...
 
Last edited:

djtetei

Active Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
62
Location
România
I can't put too much of it cause of well... it looking kind of funny
We want good sound, we look at fancy equipments but don't want to properly treat a room because of looking "funny" and we hope to solve it through software....
Hmmmm ...
To each his own.
 

tonycollinet

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
3,165
Likes
4,727
Location
UK/Cheshire
We want good sound, we look at fancy equipments but don't want to properly treat a room because of looking "funny" and we hope to solve it through software....
Hmmmm ...
To each his own.
Not many people have a dedicated listening room. For those of us who don't, treating a shared family living area is generally not an option.

I actually have an office that would benefit from treatment - and I could (might) choose to do it. But two of the walls are glass. Treating them would sort of defeat the object of the glass.
 

DigiPete

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
79
Location
Copenhagen, or Spain or Budapest or the world
Genelec fanboy here

Consider a pair of Genelec 8330.
Throw in a GLM kit to control the build in DSP + remote or rotary volume & something to do Toslink -> AES or S/PDIFF
And you are in business

- Fits space and budget
- 45 Hz - 23 kHz (-6 dB) - probably better in room
- DSP easy to use and and fully digital into speakes
- Class D - 2 x 50w each
- Comes in white for higher WAF
- Adjustable wall mount comes in white
- Automatically power on with signal (and off without)
- LED can be turned off for move night
- You can design frequency response to you preference
- 5 years warranty (with registration online)
- Build to last and parts available for decades

Good references Sweetwater (US) or Thomann (EU)
 
Last edited:
OP
mvnchies

mvnchies

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
100
Likes
46
We want good sound, we look at fancy equipments but don't want to properly treat a room because of looking "funny" and we hope to solve it through software....
Hmmmm ...
To each his own.
yeah, it's a trade-off, trying to get it as good as possible with the constraints we are given :)
Not many people have a dedicated listening room. For those of us who don't, treating a shared family living area is generally not an option.

I actually have an office that would benefit from treatment - and I could (might) choose to do it. But two of the walls are glass. Treating them would sort of defeat the object of the glass.
I imagine it would look funny from the outside depending on how much you treat them...
Genelec fanboy here

Consider a pair of Genelec 8330.
Throw in a GLM kit to control the build in DSP + remote or rotary volume & something to do Toslink -> AES or S/PDIFF
And you are in business

- Fits space and budget
- 45 Hz - 23 kHz (-6 dB) - probably better in room
- DSP easy to use and and fully digital into speakes
- Class D - 2 x 50w each
- Comes in white for higher WAF
- Adjustable wall mount comes in white
- Automatically power on with signal (and off without)
- LED can be turned off for move night
- You can design frequency response to you preference
- 5 years warranty (with registration online)
- Build to last and parts available for decades

Good references Sweetwater (US) or Thomann (EU)
I was very much considering these, but unsure of distance from speakers. I am looking at Genelec's guide for this, and they put the 8330A at 2m distance. that's a bit less than the distance I have currently, and will likely be even less in the future.
Love Genelec though, heard a few models in stores. the GLM stuff is so cool too!

edit:

this guide, that is.

Thank you!
 

DigiPete

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
79
Location
Copenhagen, or Spain or Budapest or the world
yeah, it's a trade-off, trying to get it as good as possible with the constraints we are given :)

I imagine it would look funny from the outside depending on how much you treat them...

I was very much considering these, but unsure of distance from speakers. I am looking at Genelec's guide for this, and they put the 8330A at 2m distance. that's a bit less than the distance I have currently, and will likely be even less in the future.
Love Genelec though, heard a few models in stores. the GLM stuff is so cool too!

edit:

this guide, that is.

Thank you!
I would not worry about SPL in your case.

Genelec numbers:

89Db @ 5m
Maximum long-term RMS sound pressure level, measured in half-space, on-axis, with simulated programme signal according to
IEC 60268-5 (limited by driver unit protection circuit, no weighting).

Genelec data sheet on:
Listening Distance and Sound Pressure Level

Now that is a helpful manufacturer! ;)
 
OP
mvnchies

mvnchies

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
100
Likes
46
I would not worry about SPL in your case.

Genelec numbers:

89Db @ 5m
Maximum long-term RMS sound pressure level, measured in half-space, on-axis, with simulated programme signal according to
IEC 60268-5 (limited by driver unit protection circuit, no weighting).

Genelec data sheet on:
Listening Distance and Sound Pressure Level

Now that is a helpful manufacturer! ;)
very interesting. do you know if this is affected a lot by the GLM kit? I assume you need to reduce "gain" (is this the right term?) in order to use EQ, but not sure by how much.
I wonder... hmm... it's tempting. I watched a few videos on GLM, very cool system.
 

DigiPete

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
79
Location
Copenhagen, or Spain or Budapest or the world
I see I could have been more helpful.
Genelec is trying to tell you that you should not sit any further away because of the size of your room.
 

DigiPete

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
79
Location
Copenhagen, or Spain or Budapest or the world
very interesting. do you know if this is affected a lot by the GLM kit? I assume you need to reduce "gain" (is this the right term?) in order to use EQ, but not sure by how much.
I wonder... hmm... it's tempting. I watched a few videos on GLM, very cool system.

First:
GLM takes care of everything, so you just:
- Place the Mic
- Press the button
- Stay quiet and out of the way
& watch as the calculations are done in the cloud for you.

Second:
GLM does not cost you any maximum SPL - if anything it lets your monitors breathe a little easier.
Why, well because GLM only reduces spikes and stay off the futile effort of filling dips caused by room modes.
In short: your room modes (spikes) offers "free" amplification, so your smart monitor can save some of its effort/energy in those frequencies.
 
Last edited:
OP
mvnchies

mvnchies

Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
100
Likes
46
First:
GLM takes care of everything, so you just:
- Place the Mic
- Press the button
- Stay quiet and out of the way
& watch as the calculations are done in the cloud for you.

Second:
GLM does not cost you any maximum SPL - if anything it lets your monitors breathe a little easier.
Why, well because GLM only reduces spikes and stay off the futile effort of filling dips caused by room modes.
In short: your room modes (spikes) offers "free" amplification, so your smart monitor can save some of its effort/energy in those frequencies.
it sure sounds tempting, and I could just buy a cheaper DAC with XLR if so... hmm.
I will have to think about it some more! I can only buy the GLM kit and a pair of 8330A in the grey (standard?) colourway, as a discounted package at 1600. they look nice to me though.
just worried about their use as a TV speaker, and putting them side by side with the TV on the media bench.
 
Top Bottom