New Sennheiser HD490 Pro

[solderdude]

@solderdude,
Thanks for explaining all the details.
I guess I'll have to be patient to have someone with certified equipment take measurements on the HD 490 Pro.

For now, I'll be using the B&K 5128 measurements from SoundGuys to get my EQ parameters.
View attachment 364076

Preamp: -6.8 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 0.600
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 1.4 dB Q 4.100
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 78 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 2.100
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 200 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 0.600
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 5.000
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 1800 Hz Gain 3.1 dB Q 0.900
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 2100 Hz Gain -0.9 dB Q 4.300
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 3000 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 5.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 4100 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 3.400
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 6200 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 5.000
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 9400 Hz Gain -5.4 dB Q 5.000
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 10000 Hz Gain 4.6 dB Q 2.500

One should realize that also for the BK5128 the low bass response, target and reliability for the response above several kHz may well deviate from your personal HRTF.
So... don't be afraid to play with the filters in that band (to personal preference).
Measurements on certain fixtures adhering to a standard only adhere to that standard and are valid for that copy on that fixture on those circumstances.
Then add the fact that targets may differ as well which add to more confusion and even deviation from your personal HRTF.
Between 100Hz and say 4kHz it is 'safe' to trust 5128 measurements (with the mentioned target in mind)

 

[johny_2000]

@solderdude,
Thank you. I understand the limitations of the test fixture and target curves.
For me, the initial PEQs are a good starting point for listening, during which I adjust the low and high shelf filters to my liking.

My current one for HD 490 Pro:

It's certainly a big departure from the Harman 2018 curve because I'm not looking for absolute precision, but rather listening pleasure.

 

[ZolaIII]

@solderdudeI It seems average for both other ear and ear chenel is somewhere in between BK5128 which in highs is bright to almost any ear model, has a little less bass and GRAS 43AG-7 used originally for Harman over ear 2018 which is too small regarding ear models and a bit recessed in highs. That's why for now am saying use JM-1 (to known models and available for it) averaged ear model transfer to GRAS 43AG-7 and on target for it on closed back and still with minor reduction for both ear and chenel (-0.20 slope and - bass [basically it remains the same]) to best measured model there is. The bass transition is also puzzling if it's set to 105 Hz Harman 2018 model it's a bit without punch in transition area. If it's more to natural speaker response slow slope down all the way to 450 Hz it's a bit boomy. How much of a bump in between it needs depends of driver decay response and impuls response. It's not as for speakers as ones in headphones are generally faster. I would say a bit less then on DCA Stelth for most headphones. For open back's you just average error response to BK5128 diffuse field (as it's available already) and apply additional correction to GRAS 43AG-7 measurements and you get mid ground.
At least that's how far I got so far. Actually annoyed by the state of affairs getting back to speakers and nice old Greco Roman style wrestling with the room. For me headphones are anyway when I can't use speakers which is very rare.

 

[solderdude]

I found that for most headphones only adjusting the overall 'errors' found in multiple measurements is already enough for good sound.
There is no single perfect test fixture and above several kHz they all differ anyway. The classic fixtures are all suspect above 6kHz and between 8kHz and 12kHz give wrong values anyway.

So In general I just correct bass below 100Hz on measurements + hearing. Correct obvious errors (very low Q ones) in the bass to mids and for the treble it all becomes a bit fuzzy.

The weird thing is that even when EQ is wrong (for one's ears) there is a general improvement with 'global EQ' (like Amir does as well) but people tend to 'believe' any 'accurate' and complex EQ is exactly how they believe it should be and 'accept' that as 'that's how it should sound'.
Usually when for another headphone EQ based on the same guy's/fixture is used both EQ'ed headphones sound more similar but (not surprisingly) not the same.

 

[ZolaIII]

I have bilt up preference (that's similar to yours) and good tuned main speaker sistem as a guide line. There is even more to then what you already mentioned like equal loudness compensation but as I don't have HATS to play around such things this is enough for me.
Regarding how far we menaged to get with earphones/headphones so far all do long this video is both educational and informative. Simple or complex is irrelevant as there is more to it to be determined. For me it's not complex and it's far more simple than speakers and crossovers when it comes to headphones (less dependencies obviously). Minimum phase FIR isn't for it's complexity but less ringing or better decay if you wish.

Of course there is more work to be done.

 

[johny_2000]

Apologies for the confusion. I first intended to share the actual GRAS industry-standard graphs by Aregina, which can be used with the Harman 2018 target you're showing. Therefore, I time-stamped the YouTube video above with these graphs.

So yesterday I took the graphs from the Aregina video and digitized them using VituixCAD. I then passed these raw measurements into AutoEQ to the Harman 2018 curve with the same bass, treble, and max gain settings as the other compensation. I downloaded these PEQs onto my computer and listened to them. Overall the results sound the same to me using both methods - *B&K 5128 measurements from SoundGuys + https://listener800.github.io/5128.html* and *GRAS 45CA-8 measurements from Aregina + AutoEQ*.

Preamp: -6.1 dB
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain 9.3 dB Q 0.70
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 52 Hz Gain -7.3 dB Q 0.51
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 4222 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 0.96
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 2143 Hz Gain 4.6 dB Q 1.51
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 9258 Hz Gain 2.8 dB Q 2.58
Filter 6: ON HSC Fc 10000 Hz Gain -3.3 dB Q 0.70
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 703 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 5.87
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 414 Hz Gain 0.4 dB Q 1.83
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 225 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 2.73
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 7524 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 5.92

 

[tlkmx]

I also have a Sennheiser HD-25 II and use it extensively for the gym, but also that headphone has two defective contacts on both sides now, so I need to wiggle a bit on the connections on top of the earcups. But to be fair I really used them more like a tool and didn't treat them with great care. Also I was still quite pleased with them. I bought them 5 years ago aprox.

I have 2 and many of my friends also own the hd-25 its a piece of garbage tbh ALL of us have this contact problem and i treated mine really well.. Sadly just out of warranty

 

[Heinzfi]

I have 2 and many of my friends also own the hd-25 its a piece of garbage tbh ALL of us have this contact problem and i treated mine really well.. Sadly just out of warranty

Same issue happened to me but thankfully since 2023 they've updated the HD 25 and started using gold-plated springs (source) instead of soldering the wires directly to the socket. My new pair w/ gold springs have been reliable so far.

 

[johny_2000]

The AutoEQ database is now populated with two measurements from RTings HMS II.3 (without ear pads specified) and Super Review KB006x + 711 (for both types of ear pads).

 

[johny_2000]

Well, I tried the PEQs based on the Rtings HMS II.3 measurements from AutoEQ and I didn't like them. Poor fidelity, sound worse than without them.
The PEQs based on Super Review's measurements and my personal ones based on Soundguys' digitized measurements sound much better to me.

 

[Vamp898]

As i had the chance to test both today, did anyone else compared the HD 490 Pro and NDH-30?

I don't want to spoil it or create any bias, so if anyone has the chance to listen to both, please listen to both and report back. I will post my findings in 1 week to give everyone the chance to have an unbiased view

 

[Drew456]

As i had the chance to test both today, did anyone else compared the HD 490 Pro and NDH-30?

And another question to add to that one, which of the two would be more suitable for those with small heads?

 

[Vamp898]

And another question to add to that one, which of the two would be more suitable for those with small heads?

That is very individual but the HD 490 Pro is much more comfortable, i can say that for sure. You don't feel them on your head at all. I could wear them like forever. The NDH-30 is comfortable too, but has stronger clamping and is heavier. You feel them, they have a very typical "Headphone" Feel to them while the HD 490 Pro feels like wearing a cushion.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

And another question to add to that one, which of the two would be more suitable for those with small heads?

I recently tried both in an audio store (without an urgent need to buy one). I didnt bought them but both were good.

Personally I think I prefered the comfort of the NDH 30 but I am sure this is because of my specific and rather big head.
I expect most people to prefer the comfort of the HD 490 and this is also what I read in forums. I feel like the headband of the NDH 30 is made for big heads.
The pads were better on the HD 490.

The NDH 30 sounds more "spectacular" to me - more spacious and the bass impressed me more - but the timbre was more correct on the HD 490.
The NDH 30 also changed its sound signature depending on the positioning of the ear cups which might become annoying. This also might make the HD 490 easier to EQ.

So: Personally I prefered the NDH 30 (it is close), but I would still recommend the HD 490 to more people, you included.

 

[Sacha]

Just got a pair of these to try out, so far I'd say they are the best Senn I've heard yet! I've had 600, 650, 800. I like the general sound of the 600 and kept them for a long time, but these are a lot better in terms of sounding more open and detailed (going on memory here). They aren't quite as open / detailed / spacious as my MM-500 but for the price difference they are pretty awesome I reckon. Prefer the velour pads, I get annoyed by high end really easily. Using Sonarworks correction at 50% and they sound very neutral, comfortable and punchy to me. Not HUGE low end but very audible and clear. Keepers I think!

 

[spankjam]

I mean, it's pretty simple for people who want clarity of whether they like it:

The 490 Pros fall under the category of natural sounding headphones with a heavy dip in the higher mid range which makes them sound very soft.

 

[Vamp898]

I mean, it's pretty simple for people who want clarity of whether they like it:

The 490 Pros fall under the category of natural sounding headphones with a heavy dip in the higher mid range which makes them sound very soft.

Like Studio Reference Monitor Speakers used for mixing and mastering. I wonder if that is an coincidence or intentional

 

[Sacha]

Side note for my audio bros, the Dear Reality SE plugin it comes with actually sounds quite good and credible; I've found some of the room sims hit and miss but I enjoyed this one.

 

[eightiesHiFiguy]

Greetings to all. I thought if I may, give my unscientific experience to those wondering what I was wondering. Should I purchase the HD490 PRO's. Conclusion, for my HIFI music listening - connected to my stereo when I cannot use my speakers, the answer is no! Current Headphones I compared them to: Philips Fidelio X2HR(sleeper), HD600, HD650, (did not like the 800S - was disappointed - even at their massively discounted price I opted out). Source: Integrated amp, Marantz CD60, JDS Labs Atom2 stack/ Element 3. The attractiveness of the 490PRO is that its Sennheiser Professional Division, and that they are - 490PRO is supposed to be built to a higher quality of materials. That is it. It's the only reason I found them attractive with the interchangeable Ear Pads. Truth be told if I could spare the funds for the 490 Pro , I would buy them as backup and or use with a Dap.

After careful consideration and speaking to others as well who have them/listened to them, the consensus was the same - If you own the HD650 and you are Only using them for music then you would be better served to save your money - Not speaking to people who mix. If you mix ignore me completely I am a wack job that has no hope. But for Hifi music ... you would do better to keep the HD650's as I did. B&H has a great return/trial policy - 30 days and you pay shipping back. Good luck. P.S Do I still desire to have the HD490 Pro - Yes, but I decide to purchase a quadratic diffuser instead. Have a great week.

 

[Stange]

How is a Hifiman Edition XS compared to the 490 Pro?