New S.M.S.L. M300 SE 120$

[pstr]

Hi @pstr! Welcome to ASR.

Have you read the User Manual?

Yeah, from it it seems you need to go to menu -> output -> choose output. Is there a way to do it faster ?

 

[staticV3]

Yeah, from it it seems you need to go to menu -> output -> choose output. Is there a way to do it faster ?

I believe that's the only way you can switch outputs.

If you want something that's easier to switch, consider the Topping DX5 Lite or EX5. With these, you have dedicated buttons on the remote for switching between Line out and Headphone out.

Alternatively, some Headphone Amps like the Topping L30II, SMSL HO200, and H300 have a Pre/HPA toggle switch on the front.

 

[pstr]

I believe that's the only way you can switch outputs.

If you want something that's easier to switch, consider the Topping DX5 Lite or EX5. With these, you have dedicated buttons on the remote for switching between Line out and Headphone out.

Alternatively, some Headphone Amps like the Topping L30II, SMSL HO200, and H300 have a Pre/HPA toggle switch on the front.

Thx, for suggestions, but I'm looking for something on the budget ~150$.
SMSL DS100, from what is in manual can switch output on long knob press. Can someone check if its possible to do with M300 ?

 

[OK1]

Does anyone know the specs of the headphone outputs, I was looking for a USB DAC with Headphone outputs, thought this was the one. But did not find any specs on the headphone power.

I also note there is an "upgraded" version on Amazon.co.uk, what's this "upgrade" about - a firmware upgrade or a feature upgrade?

 

[OK1]

The CS43131 used in the M300 SE is a DAC chip with a built-in headphone amplifier, and the M300 SE uses it as is.
So the output is 148mW/32Ω and 15mW/300Ω, which is small compared to the absurdly large outputs of recent HP amplifiers, but I think it is sufficient for practical purposes.

They have not stated anything in the specs about the SNR, DNR, or SINAD of the headphone output, nor the output impedance or noise floor. How much power @ 16 Ohms, 32 Ohms, etc, etc,. Really interested in this product, but would have preferred to check 1st before I buy. Hiding these details, was like an anti-climax.

Seems suspicious as if they have something to hide, or are just silent on the aspects of the product, that they are not proud of.

 

[TonyJZX]

its more like they dont care about HP performance in this product

its like wondering how the cigarette lighter works in a new sports car... its nice to have if you need it but if its not great well then... ok?

its also like me wondering why they have a 3.5 mm stereo out at the back (instead of rca) - its there if you ever need it but i doubt i'm ever going to use it... in fact i dont even know if it works

 

[hyperknot]

I'm looking for a balanced DAC which can take SPDIF input. I'm planning to use it with Genelec 8030C speakers using balanced cables.

Which DAC would you recommend for this purpose? I'm thinking about SMSL D6, D6s or M300 SE. Are these equally good for this purpose?

 

[OK1]

In the professional audio world, which I am more familiar with, we face the same kind of issues. Once upon a time there would be separate devices in a recording or mixing studio, such as :

1. Microphone Preamps
2. Line level Mixers

And the end result would then feed into

3. Analog to Digital Converters.
4. With the end result recorded on a computer
5. Played back via a Digital Analog Converter @ line level.
6. Which feeds either speakers, a mixer or directly and indirectly into a headphone amp --> into headphones.

So this was the "separates" model, different devices, and you could mix and match from different models of gear and manufacturer. Or upgrade a single component in the signal chain.

Then things changed, and we now have these ALL in ONE devices aka audio interfaces, which never existed before, which are all singing, all dancing, and integrate all of the items mentioned above. The down side is, many of these are built to a cost, with compromises. Good in some aspects and average in other aspects. For example many "professional" and "prosumer" audio interfaces have headphone outputs with impedance above 20 ohms, which I consider not suitable for most IEM's and probably not suitable for any OE Headphone below 150 Ohm input impedance. My solution for this has been to not bother trying to get an Audio Interface that is good for everything, which would cost a lot of money, but to purchase a very headphone amp, which can be relatively inexpensive, in today's market, and pair this with inexpensive audio interfaces that excel at everything else except the inclusion of a low output impedance headphone amp.

I think of the current trend where many DAC devices are similar, integrating headphone amps, but these also have compromises, typically not being able to drive easily the most demanding headphones. My thoughts have been - think of any headphone amp on many of these integrated DAC's as a bonus item, their main feature is the DAC function. And rather than trying to get a DAC with headphone output that will satisfy ALL headphone purposes, consider purchasing a dedicated headphone amp, if you ever think you'll need to drive any headphones with lots of voltage/current/watts. Furthermore with these ALL in ONEs, whenever better digital converters are available, these are introduced in newer models, so you have to junk the entire device, and buy a new one, when the only benefit of the more recent model, is the DAC and/or ADC

Almost any decent DAC with a headphone amp will drive most IEMS and OE Headphones adequately, and therefore one does not have to spend too much on such a DAC/Headphone amp combo. Then have a dedicated headphone amp, for any exceptional scenarios like headphones which need lots of oomph to drive them, which most people will not need.

It's a similar story for anyone with an electrostatic headphone. The headphone amp in any DAC, becomes redundant, cos you need a dedicated headphone amp for your super demanding/special electrostatic headphone.

So for the vast majority of IEMs and OE headphones, any decent DAC with a headphone amp will do. Demanding dynamic or planar magnetic OE headphones, will need a beefier dedicated headphone amp, and electrostatic headphones will also need their own separate amp.

If budget permits, only reason to have a combo DAC/Headphone amp is convenience, otherwise - just buy separates - a DAC and a Headphone amp. In my estimation, the incremental cost, compared to a combined DAC/Headphone amp is in the region of $30 to $100, and the dedicated headphone amp is likely to have much more oomph than anything in a combo device. The separates will most likely address lots of scenarios such as balance and unbalanced inputs to the headphone amp, as well as balanced and unbalanced outputs from the headphone amp, will more flexibility to pair this headphone amp to any DAC.

I can't see how much more headphone amps will improve, so the headphone amp will retain its value, and if one so chooses, one can upgrade just the DAC device in the chain. This I think is really the better solution. Separates. Providing lots of flexibility, to upgrade or change only a part of the chain.

 

[VientoB]

The only thing I dislike about this is the 3.5mm unbalanced output. Mine broke when I had my headphones plugged in the front and the cable caught on my leg and the unit was pulled off its shelf.

 

[Roland68]

The only thing I dislike about this is the 3.5mm unbalanced output. Mine broke when I had my headphones plugged in the front and the cable caught on my leg and the unit was pulled off its shelf.

That's why my cable is always lying completely on the table, at least when I take the headphones off.
With which device would this have turned out differently?

 

[VientoB]

That's why my cable is always lying completely on the table, at least when I take the headphones off.
With which device would this have turned out differently?

The 3.5mm output broke internally as it is not very securely attached.

 

[Roland68]

The 3.5mm output broke internally as it is not very securely attached.

However, a defect caused by such rough handling can hardly be blamed on the device. You can't expect expensive sockets to be installed in this price range; the budget and the size of the device simply don't allow it.

I would simply solder a cheap cable with an RCA plug on one side in the required length internally and that's it. Attach shrink tubing and cable ties internally as strain relief and that's it. Next time the connection won't break.

If you can't do it yourself, a DIYer, a FabLab/MakerSpace or a repair cafe will definitely be able to help you.

 

[VientoB]

However, a defect caused by such rough handling can hardly be blamed on the device. You can't expect expensive sockets to be installed in this price range; the budget and the size of the device simply don't allow it.

I would simply solder a cheap cable with an RCA plug on one side in the required length internally and that's it. Attach shrink tubing and cable ties internally as strain relief and that's it. Next time the connection won't break.

If you can't do it yourself, a DIYer, a FabLab/MakerSpace or a repair cafe will definitely be able to help you.

Well the reality is I can say more sturdy connection probably wouldnt have broken.

There is not much space to do what you have said. The unbalanced output is squeezed between the balanced outputs and you need to desolder at least one balanced output socket to attempt to do any fixing of the unbalanced.

I'm currently in the process of trying to fix it.

 

[Roland68]

Well the reality is I can say more sturdy connection probably wouldnt have broken.

There is not much space to do what you have said. The unbalanced output is squeezed between the balanced outputs and you need to desolder at least one balanced output socket to attempt to do any fixing of the unbalanced.

I'm currently in the process of trying to fix it.
View attachment 400097

But then the circuit board might have been damaged and the whole device broken. There are reasons why sockets and plug connections that are not mechanically connected to a housing give way in an emergency. Even if you don't want to admit it.
I have seen this kind of damage several times when manufacturers have installed these more stable connections without using the screw connections for the housing. In the worst case, the soldering pads tear off the circuit board.

A friend of mine had a contact problem with the 3.5 socket and soldered the cable internally.
But he soldered it facing inwards and then led it out in a base. It's possible that he widened the hole to do this.

There are much worse situations for soldering, here you can get to it from both sides, provided you have a suitable soldering tip.

 

[wilkerman265]

Greetings to everyone. I'm new to the forum and for digging into Hi-Fi level music world. I bought this DAC this month and I've testing it with my Fidelio X3 and later with my pair of KRK. I want to try the "Fixed" mode but It always go back to "Variable" can you help me with this guys?, I've been trying with HP and Line.

 

[GGroch]

.....I want to try the "Fixed" mode but It always go back to "Variable" can you help me with this guys?, I've been trying with HP and Line.

Welcome.

That is an odd problem. I no longer have my 300se, but I believe the Fixed/variable only affects the rear line (balanced and SE) outputs, not the HP. Do I understand correctly that you go to the "Pre-Mode", quick press to see the choices, go to "Fixed" and quick press, then immediately go back and it has not changed? Or, do you successfully change it and later when powered down it does not remember your choice. If the latter is the case then your DAC may be defective.

 

[VientoB]

Yeah fixed is for the line outputs on the back. Doesn't affect the headphones socket on the front

 

[wilkerman265]

Thank you for the response. I pressed the "Fixed" mode and go back to "USB". When I go back again to that section, It says "Variable", not like the "Filters" section that stays on the right option. So I understand now (thanks to you) only affect the rear outputs, but for example I tried with a minicomponent which I have in SE, and It go back to "Variable", Maybe it only work with the XLR?

 

[VientoB]

Thank you for the response. I pressed the "Fixed" mode and go back to "USB". When I go back again to that section, It says "Variable", not like the "Filters" section that stays on the right option. So I understand now (thanks to you) only affect the rear outputs, but for example I tried with a minicomponent which I have in SE, and It go back to "Variable", Maybe it only work with the XLR?

I used to use mine with the 3.5mm output until I broke it. Works with either

 

[wilkerman265]

I used to use mine with the 3.5mm output until I broke it. Works with either

Thank you, I changed the output just to line, and fixed, it's now settled as the volume increased to 40, but I had it in 30 before.