New Revel Performa4 / Arcam Radia speaker line-up -- with Anechoic EQ

[Mort]

The BMR sounds fantastic at 85dB and bass is full and strong.

Not with bass heavy music. I blew a BMR woofer.

 

[MoreWatts]

As noted, the M105 and BMR Monitor are in no way similar (except in price, which is because of DTC vs. traditional retail channels). The M105 is a small bookshelf. The BMR is like cutting the top off of a Revel F206/F226Be. Of course more bass will be available. And, as noted above, the BMR is still better with a subwoofer. Heck, my F208s are better with subwoofers.

 

[amper42]

Not with bass heavy music. I blew a BMR woofer.

Really, I have not had that privilege and I can't stay in the room at the high levels the BMR Monitor can produce. Out of curiosity do you know:
1. what music you were playing and volume levels in effect when the woofer blew?
2. what gear was driving the BMR Monitor?
3. what exactly happened when woofer blew? Did the foam separate? Coil break? Visual signs?
That has to be a first. lol

That SB Acoustics 6" Ceramic is a high quality, tough speaker.

 

[nathan]

Since all of this info is such a major departure from Revel's previous product lines, for me it raises more questions than it answers.
I wonder if this "optional" software equalization is designed to smooth out deficiencies in the new design compromises.

This AEQ stuff is a long standing approach for high end professional systems. For example, many of the highly praised speakers on this forum like the Genelec all use this feature. It has been in use for a couple of decades by mainstream subwoofer makers like SVS. We just dont talk about it much because it cannot be defeated. It is just in there, doing its thing.

Similarly, JBL does this for many professional speakers like the M2. And the well regarded JBL Sythensis speakers are designed to work with AEQ as well. In these latter two cases, it is not built in but has to be in the signal before getting to the speaker.

TLDR, this has been an area of expertise in the JBL, Harman, Revel family for a long time. I'm glad to hear they are adding it to their new speakers as an option. I hope that they make it easy to use without buying prorprietary hardware.....

 

[nathan]

Soliciting speaker EQ as a feature by the manufacturer seems stupid to me. Why didn't they just design the crossover correctly to begin with?

I can always add room EQ later. I want the speaker crossover as flat as possible in the original design. Not variable.

You should call Genelec and complain about their monitors. Or JBL about their best measuring monitors. Or SVS about their subs.

 

[nathan]

M105 is OK speaker for a small room or used as a height speaker, but it's awful below 80Hz. Any comparison between M105 and it's replacement should focus on how the low end performs below 100Hz.

I get that some people seek this. I hope the market continues to offer options for such use cases.

Counter point: Any time I see a speaker with extension below 80hz I cringe. Any serious system I put together is bass managed and that extension is un needed, reduces output, typically allows distortion and compression to happen sooner, and introduces unnecessary compromises for a full range system.

 

[tineared]

This AEQ stuff is a long standing approach for high end professional systems. For example, many of the highly praised speakers on this forum like the Genelec all use this feature. It has been in use for a couple of decades by mainstream subwoofer makers like SVS. We just dont talk about it much because it cannot be defeated. It is just in there, doing its thing.

Similarly, JBL does this for many professional speakers like the M2. And the well regarded JBL Sythensis speakers are designed to work with AEQ as well. In these latter two cases, it is not built in but has to be in the signal before getting to the speaker.

TLDR, this has been an area of expertise in the JBL, Harman, Revel family for a long time. I'm glad to hear they are adding it to their new speakers as an option. I hope that they make it easy to use without buying prorprietary hardware.....

You are comparing active speaker systems with Revel speakers which are passive.

 

[Oddball]

Speakers that can do 110 dB constant at 1m are few and pricey. Even with those you are best to have several subs to back them up in the low end.

Arguing about what's good or better is a bit of a pickle. It really depends what one is after.

 

[nathan]

You are comparing active speaker systems with Revel speakers which are passive.

The physics of acoustics doesn't know whether the amp is inside the cabinet of the speaker or not.

And of course the JBL Synthesis speakers are passive, including a passive crossover, but use the same AEQ concept if you want to -- and work well without AEQ, if you prefer, as well.

You can also buy the M2 as passive speakers. Etc Etc.

 

[MoreWatts]

This finishes the Performa4/3 comparison tables. I'm gonna skip the 10-inch subwoofers.

Here's some specs on the center channel/C205 replacement, which is the Arcam Radia R35C or Revel Performa4 C245. New model specs are from the Arcam website. C205 specs are from the owner's manual. There appears to be no C208 replacement, at this time.

Spec	C245/R35C	C205
1-inch tweeter material	Deep Ceramic Composite	aluminum
woofer driver, inches & material	2 x 5.25 Micro Ceramic Composite	2 x 5.25 aluminum
cross-over point, Hz	1.8 k	1.7 k
nominal impedance, ohms	6	8
sensitivity, dB (2.83V/1m)	86	89
amplifier power range, watts	15 - 150	50 - 120
bi-wire options	no	no
mounting points	none	none
port placement	rear	rear
dimensions, H x W x D; in. (mm)	7.1 x 23.4 x 10.9 (181 x 277 x 245)	7.9 x 21 x 11.5 (200 x 532 x 292)
weight, lb. (kg)	35.1 (15.9)	26.1 (11.9)
frequency range, +- 6 dB	55 Hz to 40 kHz	62 Hz to ? kHz

The impedance and sensitivity are lower on the new model.

Handles the ~same power, can use a smaller amp, and goes slightly lower in frequency range.

The new one is heavier. All the new models are heavier, except for the small bookshelf.

The C205 included 2 sets of adjustable feet, to allow for slight height and tilt adjustments. When originally released, a pedestal stand was also available. No mention of either of these features on the Arcam website for the new models.

 

[EJ3]

So no JBL M2 for you then?

correct

 

[EJ3]

I get that some people seek this. I hope the market continues to offer options for such use cases.

Counter point: Any time I see a speaker with extension below 80hz I cringe. Any serious system I put together is bass managed and that extension is un needed, reduces output, typically allows distortion and compression to happen sooner, and introduces unnecessary compromises for a full range system.

I do not own main speakers (for my 2.2 system) that are so small that they cannot assert themselves well down to at least 40 Hz.
In fact the current speakers (with no EQ of any type):
At the system resonance of 60 Hz, the output was only about 2 dB above its average level in the upper part of the woofer’s range, and even that minor output variation was spread over almost two octaves. When the bass curve was spliced to the room-response measurement, the resulting composite frequency response was flat within about ±2 dB from 26 to 20,000 Hz. The horizontal directivity of the tweeter was only discernible in the room measurement above 10,000 Hz.

And my pair of DIY subs (raw speakers) have an FR from 20 Hz-80 Hz. Low Filter is at 70 Hz & High Filter is at 55 Hz.
I guess that I have a different outlook than you. But: it works for me, in my living room.
Could it be better? Sure. Am I willing to spend the time & money to make it so? No.

 

[Chromatischism]

I get that some people seek this. I hope the market continues to offer options for such use cases.

Counter point: Any time I see a speaker with extension below 80hz I cringe. Any serious system I put together is bass managed and that extension is un needed, reduces output, typically allows distortion and compression to happen sooner, and introduces unnecessary compromises for a full range system.

Yeah, except if you've had speakers that extend lower, you'll notice a more seamless sound. I have never had such a seamless "one system" sound with speakers that can barely reach 80 Hz. 60 Hz really does sound better in my experience. No, it isn't ideal from a headroom perspective.

70 Hz would be a good sweet spot but it has historically not been an option.

 

[EJ3]

Yeah, except if you've had speakers that extend lower, you'll notice a more seamless sound. I have never had such a seamless "one system" sound with speakers that can barely reach 80 Hz. 60 Hz really does sound better in my experience. No, it isn't ideal from a headroom perspective.

70 Hz would be a good sweet spot but it has historically not been an option.

My filters are a stand alone mini-box (pre-amp inter-connects to the filter box, inter-connects from the filter box to the main amps and the sub amps and from all the amps to their respective speakers).
I have a great selection of filters:
:

 

[Mort]

Yeah, except if you've had speakers that extend lower, you'll notice a more seamless sound. I have never had such a seamless "one system" sound with speakers that can barely reach 80 Hz. 60 Hz really does sound better in my experience. No, it isn't ideal from a headroom perspective.

70 Hz would be a good sweet spot but it has historically not been an option.

I don't know if this is true, but I like to believe it.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

This is the first major Revel speaker product launch with new ownership in place. It will be very telling. I will be looking closely at whether focus and engineering staff were maintained at previous high levels or if it's now about mass consumption.

Not at that price. Let’s wait and see.

 

[Haint]

Black oak veneer is back? Ugh.

Looks like they got a discount on the veneer stickers from the old Pioneer Andrew Jones line, but didn't pass that discount onto consumers considering they're like 10x+ the price. Ugly, expensive, 2-way MTM center, and apparently only selling stand mounts in pairs negating any practical possibility of doing an LCR makes this a terrible product stack.

 

[kyuu]

No accounting for aesthetic tastes; I think they look nice.

2-way MTM center

People keep harping on about this, apparently content to ignore that we have already been told why there is no 3-way: they don't sell.

 

[Oddball]

No accounting for aesthetic tastes; I think they look nice.

People keep harping on about this, apparently content to ignore that we have already been told why there is no 3-way: they don't sell.

They don't sell as people buying big towers for LR are content to ignore inferior performance of 2-way and/or smallish centers and end up with asymmetrical LCR soundstage. It is funny that in HT it is well established that center is the most important and busy channel but most people, and manufacturers, completely ignore that right off the bat.

So harping, at least on my side, continues...

Luckily, Performa BE line has it all and when 50% off represents great value.

 

[Haint]

No accounting for aesthetic tastes; I think they look nice.

People keep harping on about this, apparently content to ignore that we have already been told why there is no 3-way: they don't sell.

Big box loud speakers in general "don't sell" compared to soundbars or TV speakers, so is your argument that they should just stop making them?