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New Revel Performa4 / Arcam Radia speaker line-up -- with Anechoic EQ

I also philosophically lament going from 8-inch to 6.5-inch woofers on the big floorstander, but the total woofer area is about the same (~400 square inches). The spins and listening tests, of course, will show the truth.

The F208s showed me that a big floorstander can make you question the need for subwoofers. I've used subwoofers since 1980, so I was always going to supplement my F208s anyway. I initially bought 2 subs that were too small and returned them. I then went through several months of analysis paralysis, and used only the F208s. The bass output was surprisingly satisfying. I did get 2 HSU 15-inch subs eventually....

It will be interesting to see how the F346s perform without a sub in a modest living room. :cool:
 
Here's some specs on the smaller floorstander/F206 replacement, which is the Arcam Radia R35 or Revel Performa4 F345. New model specs are from the Arcam website. F206 specs are from the owner's manual.

SpecF345/R35F206
1-inch tweeter materialDeep Ceramic Compositealuminum
mid-range driver, inches & material5.25 Deep Ceramic Composite5.25 aluminum
woofers, inches & material3 x 5.25 Micro Ceramic Composite2 x 6.5 aluminum
cross-over points, Hz350 and 2.1 k275 and 2.15 k
nominal impedence, ohms68
sensitivity, dB (2.83V/1m)8788.5
amplifier power range, watts30 - 22550 - 200
bi-wire optionsyesno
"controls"nonenone
port placementdual rearsingle front
dimensions, H x W x D; in. (mm)40.9 x 11.9 x 13.9 (1038 x 302 x 353)41.38 x 9.75 x 13.69 (1051 x 249 x 347)
weight, lb. (kg)64 (29.1)58 (26)
frequency range, +- 6 dB36 Hz to 40 kHz40 Hz to ? kHz

Three 5.25 woofers equal ~260 square inches of woof, while two 6.5 inchers are ~265 square inches.

Notice the midrange/tweeter crossover point is back to ~2.2 instead of the 1.7 kHz on the larger floorstander. The woofer/midrange crossover point is higher on this than the F346, which is 275 Hz.

Handles slightly more power and can use a smaller amp than the F206. Interestingly the new F346 is speced to be able to use an amp as low as 20 watts. The sensitivity is slightly less on the new smaller floorstander than for the large one.

The new one digs slightly deeper than the F206.

Both new floorstanders are slightly heavier than the old ones. :cool:

Revel F345.png
 
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A bit of disappointing showing in this price range, at least for my preferences. Seeing more and more manufacturers going from 8" to 6.5" woofers seems to be in vogue. So sadly another one bites the dust. Tweeters so high on big towers? Thanks no. 2-way center - even more disappointing o_O.

Good news though is that my money is safe in the wallet after this release.
 
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MoreWatts said:
Handles slightly more power and can use a smaller amp than the F206. Interestingly the new F346 is speced to be able to use an amp as low as 20 watts. The sensitivity is slightly less on the new smaller floorstander than for the large one.
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Those specs are meaningless.
 
MarkS said:
The P3 Revels seemed more physically imposing and gave off a more of an "engineering first" vibe (IMO):

View attachment 509608
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The cabinet of the F208 and F206 was the distinguishing advancement of the performa3 along with the lower price.

The performa4 is using the three 6.5” drivers like the F52 with the same $7000 MSRP price point. So I’m not sure it’s a downgrade. If you look at the previous generation, Revel is so annoying that they skipped the performa2 designation, the Concerta F12 has the two 8” drivers vs the F52 as I stated above.

My guess is that the PerformaBe2 will continue with the performa3/performaBe cabinets, unless they are going to cheap out again and use the Performa4 cabinets.

Please, no more of this recycled engineering. Especially after 13-14 years.
 
Imakeller said:
I’m interested to see Revel does an Ultima3 series. There’s supposed to be a press release/event in early March. Hopefully it’s not just an announcement of what we already know. We’ll see.
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Honestly given how the performa4 is, I would not mind if the salon3 kept the same cabinet design ( maybe with some aluminum internals for stiffness and upgraded drivers and crossover. They can probably also have a more modern plinth with IsoAcoustics. They could have done this 10 years ago.
 
amirm said:
Those specs are meaningless.
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I know. Just postin' the info from Revel/Arcam.

For instance, the F208 is specced as an 8 ohm speaker, but your measurements showed it dips as low as 3.6 ohms.... :eek:

Since Revel/Arcam are expanding to the smaller, on average, European living rooms, I wonder if they will try to stay closer to listed specs to make amplifier purchases easier/smaller/cheaper? At least the listed spec for both of the new floorstanders is a more realistic 6 ohms. :cool:
 
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I hope Revel will offer a higher end line (Performa Be and/or Ultima or a new series) with larger bass drivers.
I suppose I should go to Best Buy and audition the R11s, because in my current way of thinking, 6.5" woofers just don't seem powerful enough for a large room.
I admit to possible bias as my main speakers have 12" woofers...
 
tineared said:
I hope Revel will offer a higher end line (Performa Be and/or Ultima or a new series) with larger bass drivers.
I suppose I should go to Best Buy and audition the R11s, because in my current way of thinking, 6.5" woofers just don't seem powerful enough for a large room.
I admit to possible bias as my main speakers have 12" woofers...
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Whether they use smaller or larger drivers should be determined by yet another clean sheet design like they did with the original salon and salon2 to develop the best possible loudspeaker.

I doubt that they will be able to approach it this way anymore which unfortunately changes the mission statement they started out with.
 
Lsc said:
Whether they use smaller or larger drivers should be determined by yet another clean sheet design like they did with the original salon and salon2 to develop the best possible loudspeaker.
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I do not believe that they have pursued the goal of developing "the best possible loudspeaker" since the Ultima. OTOH, we are discussing speakers designed for a different niche.
 
Kal Rubinson said:
I do not believe that they have pursued the goal of developing "the best possible loudspeaker" since the Ultima. OTOH, we are discussing speakers designed for a different niche.
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My comments are based on this interview. I guess we can all interpret it in our own way.

Kevin Voeks on design of Revel Salon 2

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/ "Determined to find out more about Revel's Ultima Salon2, I tracked down designer Kevin Voecks late on the second day of the 2008 Consumer Electronic Show. I persuaded him to step outside the demonstration suite of Harman International Industries...
www.whatsbestforum.com www.whatsbestforum.com
 
tineared said:
I suppose I should go to Best Buy and audition the R11s, because in my current way of thinking, 6.5" woofers just don't seem powerful enough for a large room.
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KEF R11 has deliberately shelved-down bass, which I'm guessing the Revels won't ...


r11.jpg
 
Re woofer size angst, radius of drivers is relevant only in how it impacts deviations from ideal like distortion and compression, and many other design parameters also impact those deviations. The fact that these new speakers are heavier than the old ones may indicate more powerful magnet structures that might improve the range of linear excursion of the woofers, possibly compensating for their smaller size.

So as always, we need measurements before we can judge them appropriately.
 
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I wonder if the fact that the midrange is larger than the past generation and is the same size as the bass drivers, whether this will have a negative effect on the directivity.
 
Tweeter waveguide can compensate, see Ascilab 6 series for proof of concept.
 
Guess I am keeping my 20 year old T+A Criterion transmission line speakers with dual 8" drivers a bit longer. They are rated down to 30hz in room.
 
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