New Revel Performa4 / Arcam Radia speaker line-up -- with Anechoic EQ

[Power Pop 23]

Revel never really took off in the U.S. either, which is why we are all rooting for them to succeed this time around.

This is the reason why there has been so much development around the JBL brand. It's like Coca Cola - the name is recognized around the world already so all the heavy lifting has been done. More than once I've suggested creating a non-compression driver offshoot of JBL that could "house" the Revel approach to design, engineering and validation. Call it JBL Luxury, or JBL Premium, or whatever.

All I want is the Revel approach of "let's design a speaker that reflects the very best engineering Harman has to offer and continually wins double blind listening tests." I don't care what brand it's marketed under.

Ouch....

I am saddened to read that assessment of the performance of Revel loudspeakers in the marketplace, given way they were designed by Harman International - designs verified by measurements at ASR and Erin's Audio Corner.

 

[John Schuermann]

Ouch....

I am saddened to read that assessment of the performance of Revel loudspeakers in the marketplace, given way they were designed by Harman International - designs verified by measurements at ASR and Erin's Audio Corner.

Like I said, it's all marketing. We've all agreed that Harman has done a terrible job marketing the Revel brand.

Imagine making one of the best sounding speakers on the planet, validated using blind listening tests and the best available research that Harman themselves paid for, and it not being a major success in the marketplace. The mind boggles.

Then you have B&W (excuse me, "Bowers and Wilkins"). Despite doing poorly in the same kinds of blind listening tests, people have this idea that they are "the best." IT'S ALL MARKETING.

Never underestimate the power of marketing! If you make the best sounding speakers and can prove it - say so!

Think about how Sam Runco simply rebadged NEC and BenQ projectors, jacked up the price 300%, and claimed to sell the "best home theater products on the market." It was all a marketing ploy, and it worked.

We can all learn from this. It's a power that can be used for good - or for evil.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Harman has no plans to change B&W's approach or bring in their own engineers - the plan is "hands-off." Just check this link.

It seems you are more concerned with the Revel branding, where I just care about the speakers themselves. I want a line of speakers that reflects the best engineering that Harman has to offer. I don't care if it's called Revel, Arcam, JBL or Mark Levinson.

Ultimately it all comes down to marketing and brand awareness. Why fight an uphill battle pushing a brand people never heard of? That's exactly why Harman came out with a line of Lexicon electronics but then dropped it the very next year - the standard consumer has no awareness of the brand.

Arcam is highly regarded especially in Europe. So you effectively just got rid of the European Revel brand objection. I think it's a smart move.

Revel never really took off in the U.S. either, which is why we are all rooting for them to succeed this time around.

This is the reason why there has been so much development around the JBL brand. It's like Coca Cola - the name is recognized around the world already so all the heavy lifting has been done. More than once I've suggested creating a non-compression driver offshoot of JBL that could "house" the Revel approach to design, engineering and validation. Call it JBL Luxury, or JBL Premium, or whatever.

All I want is the Revel approach of "let's design a speaker that reflects the very best engineering Harman has to offer and continually wins double blind listening tests." I don't care what brand it's marketed under.

Another worry apart from the lack of beryllium tweeters going forward, is that Mark Glazer has recently retired from Revel and he was responsible for designing their greatest speakers in the past.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Ouch....

I am saddened to read that assessment of the performance of Revel loudspeakers in the marketplace, given way they were designed by Harman International - designs verified by measurements at ASR and Erin's Audio Corner.

Revel PerformaBe are still the best passive speakers in the world in their price range for classical chamber music and I believe they are still available.

 

[Lsc]

Harman has no plans to change B&W's approach or bring in their own engineers - the plan is "hands-off." Just check this link.

It seems you are more concerned with the Revel branding, where I just care about the speakers themselves. I want a line of speakers that reflects the best engineering that Harman has to offer. I don't care if it's called Revel, Arcam, JBL or Mark Levinson.

Ultimately it all comes down to marketing and brand awareness. Why fight an uphill battle pushing a brand people never heard of? That's exactly why Harman came out with a line of Lexicon electronics but then dropped it the very next year - the standard consumer has no awareness of the brand.

Arcam is highly regarded especially in Europe. So you effectively just got rid of the European Revel brand objection. I think it's a smart move.

Revel never really took off in the U.S. either, which is why we are all rooting for them to succeed this time around.

This is the reason why there has been so much development around the JBL brand. It's like Coca Cola - the name is recognized around the world already so all the heavy lifting has been done. More than once I've suggested creating a non-compression driver offshoot of JBL that could "house" the Revel approach to design, engineering and validation. Call it JBL Luxury, or JBL Premium, or whatever.

All I want is the Revel approach of "let's design a speaker that reflects the very best engineering Harman has to offer and continually wins double blind listening tests." I don't care what brand it's marketed under.

Yes this is the difference between a dealer and a consumer. I do care about Revel as a brand more so than any other brand under the Harman International umbrella. But it would be silly for dealers to have the same brand loyalty, although their employees who do particularly well with one brand could also be brand loyal.

I’m pretty sure none of the consumers where marketing leads to brand loyalty can relate to a dealer’s perspective. But it’s good to know where you stand…not surprising…thanks.

 

[Lsc]

Revel PerformaBe are still the best passive speakers in the world in their price range for classical chamber music and I believe they are still available.

Coming from a Performa3 F208, upgrading to the F228Be was one of the most satisfying and at the same time one of the least satisfying upgrades.

The exact same cabinet for double the price…I couldn’t stand the sight of it. But to your point, the sound quality was so good that my upgrade to the salon2 was probably 80% aesthetics and 20% sound.

But if I didn’t have the salon2, I’d probably get perlisten 7.2.4 since all their speakers match.

 

[John Schuermann]

Yes this is the difference between a dealer and a consumer. I do care about Revel as a brand more so than any other brand under the Harman International umbrella. But it would be silly for dealers to have the same brand loyalty, although their employees who do particularly well with one brand could also be brand loyal.

I’m pretty sure none of the consumers where marketing leads to brand loyalty can relate to a dealer’s perspective. But it’s good to know where you stand…not surprising…thanks.

I am a huge Revel fan too because Kevin Voecks and Mark Glazer are personal friends. But I am also coming at this from the standpoint of a consumer - I personally want the very best speakers money can buy. What's on the name tag isn't all that important to me, speaking as both a consumer and a dealer.

But my friendship with Kevin and Mark does give the Revel name an emotional pull, that's true. Personally, I hope the Arcam versions sell like mad because it will mean more attention and R&D put toward Revel as well. It's not like they are planning on changing the name to Arcam for the U.S. market.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Like I said, it's all marketing. We've all agreed that Harman has done a terrible job marketing the Revel brand.

Imagine a world where the brand manager for Revel sent samples of these new loudspeakers to ASR and Erin's Audio Corner for measurement.

 

[John Schuermann]

Imagine a world where the brand manager for Revel sent samples of these new loudspeakers to ASR and Erin's Audio Corner for measurement.

I've sent speakers to Erin in the past.

I guess I'm not understanding the point, as Revel already supplies CEA2034 data, as already shown in this thread.

 

[Power Pop 23]

I've sent speakers to Erin in the past.

I guess I'm not understanding the point, as Revel already supplies CEA2034 data, as already shown in this thread.

My bad,

Thank you for the reminder on samples previously sent to Erin for measurement.

Perhaps I am wrong, it was my understanding that measurements done at ASR and by Erin could provide more detail than offered by the manufacturer.

 

[John Schuermann]

My bad,

Thank you for the reminder on samples previously sent to Erin for measurement.

Perhaps I am wrong, it was my understanding that measurements done at ASR and by Erin could provide more detail than offered by the manufacturer.

Yes, more in depth, but most of what you need to know are in the Spins.

 

[sigbergaudio]

There's a very audible difference in the beryllium tweeters if you listen to real music on them with acoustic instruments. If you're listening to Taylor Swift or heavy metal you might not notice any difference.

Heavy metal is demanding material to reproduce properly. The reason you can't tell the difference is that you aren't interested in the genre.

 

[Imakeller]

Heavy metal is demanding material to reproduce properly. The reason you can't tell the difference is that you aren't interested in the genre.

The way I took that comment was that tracks where highs predominate with less adornment, it’s easier to audibly compare tweeters. Any differences would also present themselves in heavy metal, but they’d get “lost in the sauce” and be harder to evaluate.

 

[sigbergaudio]

The way I took that comment was that tracks where highs predominate with less adornment, it’s easier to audibly compare tweeters. Any differences would also present themselves in heavy metal, but they’d get “lost in the sauce” and be harder to evaluate.

It read like higher quality gear isn’t any point unless you listen to classical / acoustic recordings.

 

[Imakeller]

It read like higher quality gear isn’t any point unless you listen to classical / acoustic recordings.

Yeah, I can see how it could be taken both ways. I think every genre deserves, and benefits from, high quality gear.

 

[jonfitch]

Is the Performa 4 spins better or worse than Performa 3 speakers? Minus the center channel of course.

 

[Milt]

I am a huge Revel fan too because Kevin Voecks and Mark Glazer are personal friends. But I am also coming at this from the standpoint of a consumer - I personally want the very best speakers money can buy. What's on the name tag isn't all that important to me, speaking as both a consumer and a dealer.

But my friendship with Kevin and Mark does give the Revel name an emotional pull, that's true. Personally, I hope the Arcam versions sell like mad because it will mean more attention and R&D put toward Revel as well. It's not like they are planning on changing the name to Arcam for the U.S. market.

My feelings exactly.
After lusting after Revels for literally years & finally obtaining Studio2s many years ago, my latest speaker purchase came from a 4 person operation
headed by a former KEF engineer realizing his vision.
IMO, Revel peaked with the Ultima2 line,the ultimate design, materials & construction available at the time.
The Salon2 debuted in 2007\8(!)
I never read a review, spoke to a dealer, customer or hobbyist that criticised the design or sound quality.
Premium priced? yes, value oriented?, depends on your definition & budget. Sound beautiful & real? yes.

 

[Beave]

Is the Performa 4 spins better or worse than Performa 3 speakers? Minus the center channel of course.

To me, a couple of them look a bit worse, and a couple of them look slightly better in some ways and slightly worse in other ways, ie, a sideways move.

But I would hope that there are improvements not captured in the spins (high output compression and distortion, for example).

 

[BobbyTimmons]

IMO, Revel peaked with the Ultima2 line,the ultimate design, materials & construction available at the time.
The Salon2 debuted in 2007\8(!)

Revel released the Concerta2 around 2015 which are some of the best designed cheap passive speakers in the world. And PerformaBe was only released in 2019 which are some of the best sounding passive speakers period.

A question is whether they will be able to keep up this high quality of design now Mark Glazer has retired and beryllium tweeters seem to be in limited supply.

 

[Vergiliusma]

To me, a couple of them look a bit worse, and a couple of them look slightly better in some ways and slightly worse in other ways, ie, a sideways move.

But I would hope that there are improvements not captured in the spins (high output compression and distortion, for example).

With regards to output from the things we know, there's still more cone area in the F208 than the F346, but it has more than the F206. The Performa3's were good in that regard.

That said, as an F206 owner if I were to make a move, it be to the PerformaBe's, not the Performa4's