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New Revel Performa4 / Arcam Radia speaker line-up -- with Anechoic EQ

Lsc said:
I can attest to the F228Be vs the Salon2 since I had them at the same time for a little while. I was shocked at how good the F228Be sounded and how close it was to the salon2. There were more similarities between them vs differences. In the end especially with a higher powered amp the salon2 start to pull away especially the low bass there is no comparison.

I do contest the release timeframe statement though. I think Revel did a horrible job at marketing and growing brand awareness. What a mess. And now the Performa4 are being released under the Arcam brand in Europe? Future isn’t looking too good for Revel.
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Not clear what you are contesting. I'm simply talking about brand philosophy, which I greatly respect. Marketing is a WHOLE other subject, and there I would totally agree with you that Harman has done a terrible job re: making the world aware of the Revel brand. What blows me away: there is no brand more concerned with actually validating performance under scientifically controlled conditions. The result is one of the objectively best performing speakers on the planet, yet most people have never heard of them.

I think you have it exactly backward in regard to Revel being released under the Arcam brand in Europe - that actually is one of the most encouraging pieces of news I've heard re: the Revel brand in the last 10 years. Revel has NEVER sold well in Europe or Japan, and for that reason has always been kinda relegated to "second class" status within Harman. With the re-branding under the Arcam name in Europe there's a chance that greater sales volume will renew investment into the brand no matter what it's called. It's GREAT news.
 
Lsc said:
I can attest to the F228Be vs the Salon2 since I had them at the same time for a little while. I was shocked at how good the F228Be sounded and how close it was to the salon2. There were more similarities between them vs differences. In the end especially with a higher powered amp the salon2 start to pull away especially the low bass there is no comparison.

I do contest the release timeframe statement though. I think Revel did a horrible job at marketing and growing brand awareness. What a mess. And now the Performa4 are being released under the Arcam brand in Europe? Future isn’t looking too good for Revel.
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Almost all the manufacturers are having trouble sourcing beryllium tweeters sadly. The Performa4 is also being aimed at a much lower price point so it's not going to compete with PerformaBe.
 
Lsc said:
At what point are you going to actually listen to the speakers and participate in the double blind test to confirm your assertion?

This is the other side that I find fascinating about ASR. People claiming things like the expensive, hard to get beryllium material doesn’t make a difference without actually having any experience ie listening experience. This hobby is all about the listening (at least it should be)…believe it or not, that’s fun part. I listen to my salon2 with beryllium tweeters when I’m in my family room, then when I go to my man cave, I listen to my old Revel M12 with the aluminum tweeters (F12 finally bit the dust), and I’m enjoying music on both systems. I even enjoy listening to music on my $hitty basement rec room setup for my boys that has 30 year old Definitive technology speakers with the soft dome tweeters using a cheap Sony receiver.

I’m not a beryllium tweeters snob. But the salon2 was my end game speaker and it happens to have it and is the best sounding speaker that I have and is better than my M12 or the Def techs or the Klipsch Forte II that’s in my office as museum decorations. In the end, the magnitude of the difference is based on the listener and is very subjective. Taylor Swift sounds like Taylor Swift in all of the systems..and yes I listen to Taylor on occasion:).
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A lot of the users on the forum listen to Taylor Swift or heavy metal. There isn't much need for them to go above Concerta2 or similar lines from other manufacturers. The beryllium tweeters stand out when listening to recordings of real music on acoustic instruments.
 
kyuu said:
I see no appreciable difference in frequency response, distortion, or directivity between the Performa3-series and the PerformaBe-series to support the notion that there's any audible difference in the treble performance. I doubt that this assertion would survive a double-blind test.

In general, claims of "detail" generally boil down to the treble just being hotter and/or a shallower in-room slope. If you want more "detail", just dial in a high-shelf boost in your EQ.
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There's a very audible difference in the beryllium tweeters if you listen to real music on them with acoustic instruments. If you're listening to Taylor Swift or heavy metal you might not notice any difference.
 
BobbyTimmons said:
There's a very audible difference in the beryllium tweeters if you listen to real music on them with acoustic instruments. If you're listening to Taylor Swift or heavy metal you might not notice any difference.
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That might work on Reddit but not here.
 
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Mort said:
That might work on Reddit but not here.
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I have the speakers in my room. If I compare them with pop music they sound similar to the other Revel lines and I can switch between them without noticing that much, but if I compare them with classical chamber music the differences become audible in terms of hearing small details in the recording that you can't hear with the other Revels.
 
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BobbyTimmons said:
I have the speakers in my room. If I compare them with pop music they sound similar to the other Revel lines and I can switch between them without noticing that much, but if I compare them with classical chamber music the differences become audible in terms of hearing small details in the recording that you can't hear with the other Revels.
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Well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.
 
Buckchester said:
Well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.
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It's a fact which other owners of the speakers should be able to verify. Also Mark Glazer and Sean Olive are given to appear to explain it as due the use of beryllium in their marketing materials.
 
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BobbyTimmons said:
A lot of the users on the forum listen to Taylor Swift or heavy metal. There isn't much need for them to go above Concerta2 or similar lines from other manufacturers. The beryllium tweeters stand out when listening to recordings of real music on acoustic instruments.
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Taylor Swift sounds better on my salons vs my Concerta M12 :). Her voice sounds better and the rest of the music also sounds better especially when playing at high volume levels.

I agree, heavy metal sounds bad on most high quality speakers.
 
Lsc said:
Taylor Swift sounds better on my salons vs my Concerta M12 :). Her voice sounds better and the rest of the music also sounds better especially when playing at high volume levels.

I agree, heavy metal sounds bad on most high quality speakers.
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If only that music were real. /s
 
John Schuermann said:
Not clear what you are contesting. I'm simply talking about brand philosophy, which I greatly respect. Marketing is a WHOLE other subject, and there I would totally agree with you that Harman has done a terrible job re: making the world aware of the Revel brand. What blows me away: there is no brand more concerned with actually validating performance under scientifically controlled conditions. The result is one of the objectively best performing speakers on the planet, yet most people have never heard of them.

I think you have it exactly backward in regard to Revel being released under the Arcam brand in Europe - that actually is one of the most encouraging pieces of news I've heard re: the Revel brand in the last 10 years. Revel has NEVER sold well in Europe or Japan, and for that reason has always been kinda relegated to "second class" status within Harman. With the re-branding under the Arcam name in Europe there's a chance that greater sales volume will renew investment into the brand no matter what it's called. It's GREAT news.
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It’s not great news for the Revel brand. I’m not sure how you can conclude that it’s great for Revel when its brand power is so low that another brand in Herman’s portfolio was selected for Europe.

Honestly though, I don’t really care. Im hoping to see Bowers in my future.
 
Lsc said:
It’s not great news for the Revel brand. I’m not sure how you can conclude that it’s great for Revel when its brand power is so low that another brand in Herman’s portfolio was selected for Europe.

Honestly though, I don’t really care. Im hoping to see Bowers in my future.
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B&W? :facepalm:
 
Buckchester said:
B&W? :facepalm:
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it could be a full circle moment as it’s what I wanted when I was in college. With the Revel engineers refining the sound, I’m expecting something special. But who really cares today about the several years in the future. We can save this discussion for when the time comes. Lots of things can change.

I value audio gear a lot less nowadays since I’ve achieved my end game.
 
Lsc said:
It’s not great news for the Revel brand. I’m not sure how you can conclude that it’s great for Revel when its brand power is so low that another brand in Herman’s portfolio was selected for Europe.

Honestly though, I don’t really care. Im hoping to see Bowers in my future.
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It's probably just the Revel brand wasn't marketed much in Europe so it makes sense for Samsung to try them in Europe under a different name. Arcam is more of a known brand in Europe going back to their amplifiers in the 1970s long before Samsung acquired them.
 
BobbyTimmons said:
It's probably just the Revel brand wasn't marketed much in Europe so it makes sense for Samsung to try them in Europe under a different name. Arcam is more of a known brand in Europe going back to their amplifiers in the 1970s long before Samsung acquired them.
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And in the US, Arcam is closer to a 2nd class budget high end brand. It’s not close to the reputation of the Revel brand. My prediction is that releasing speakers under the Arcam brand will probably result in slow sales.
 
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Lsc said:
it could be a full circle moment as it’s what I wanted when I was in college. With the Revel engineers refining the sound, I’m expecting something special. But who really cares today about the several years in the future. We can save this discussion for when the time comes. Lots of things can change.

I value audio gear a lot less nowadays since I’ve achieved my end game.
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Harman has no plans to change B&W's approach or bring in their own engineers - the plan is "hands-off." Just check this link.

It seems you are more concerned with the Revel branding, where I just care about the speakers themselves. I want a line of speakers that reflects the best engineering that Harman has to offer. I don't care if it's called Revel, Arcam, JBL or Mark Levinson.

Ultimately it all comes down to marketing and brand awareness. Why fight an uphill battle pushing a brand people never heard of? That's exactly why Harman came out with a line of Lexicon electronics but then dropped it the very next year - the standard consumer has no awareness of the brand.

Arcam is highly regarded especially in Europe. So you effectively just got rid of the European Revel brand objection. I think it's a smart move.

Revel never really took off in the U.S. either, which is why we are all rooting for them to succeed this time around.

This is the reason why there has been so much development around the JBL brand. It's like Coca Cola - the name is recognized around the world already so all the heavy lifting has been done. More than once I've suggested creating a non-compression driver offshoot of JBL that could "house" the Revel approach to design, engineering and validation. Call it JBL Luxury, or JBL Premium, or whatever.

All I want is the Revel approach of "let's design a speaker that reflects the very best engineering Harman has to offer and continually wins double blind listening tests." I don't care what brand it's marketed under.
 
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