New Revel Performa4 / Arcam Radia speaker line-up -- with Anechoic EQ

[tineared]

do you have a 3rd NHT 3.3 for your center? Or a matching NHT center channel?

I have the NHT AC-2 which is the matching center channel speaker for the 3.3

 

[Beave]

I may be stating the obvious here, but Revel is kind of stuck in a bind when it comes to making a three-way center of reasonable size. Their main marketing thrust centers around their use of a waveguide for the tweeter. That waveguide is pretty big. Even when using a small midrange driver along with it, the two combined are pretty tall - see the C208 or C426Be as examples. There's just no good way to make a small-ish three-way center that still uses the waveguide.

Personally, I suspect they'd be better off making a three-way center without the waveguide, thus allowing a smaller form factor. I think it would beat their two-way center with waveguide. But they don't seem to be interested in this approach to the necessary compromise.

 

[kyuu]

Personally, I suspect they'd be better off making a three-way center without the waveguide, thus allowing a smaller form factor. I think it would beat their two-way center with waveguide. But they don't seem to be interested in this approach to the necessary compromise.

That would be an entirely different speaker and probably wouldn't measure up to their standards. And there's no guarantee that it would sell well enough, particularly enough so to pay for the R&D and manufacture of a completely new design; it would still be larger and more expensive than a 2-way.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

That would be an entirely different speaker and probably wouldn't measure up to their standards. And there's no guarantee that it would sell well enough, particularly enough so to pay for the R&D and manufacture of a completely new design; it would still be larger and more expensive than a 2-way.

Unless you have crowd with wide room, 2 way is fine. I moved from Infinity c263 to revel c205. Revel much better.

 

[kyuu]

Unless you have crowd with wide room, 2 way is fine. I moved from Infinity c263 to revel c205. Revel much better.

Agreed, good designs like the Revel have more than sufficient horizontal coverage for far-field use. But that's not a popular opinion around here.

 

[Buckchester]

I may be stating the obvious here, but Revel is kind of stuck in a bind when it comes to making a three-way center of reasonable size. Their main marketing thrust centers around their use of a waveguide for the tweeter. That waveguide is pretty big. Even when using a small midrange driver along with it, the two combined are pretty tall - see the C208 or C426Be as examples. There's just no good way to make a small-ish three-way center that still uses the waveguide.

Personally, I suspect they'd be better off making a three-way center without the waveguide, thus allowing a smaller form factor. I think it would beat their two-way center with waveguide. But they don't seem to be interested in this approach to the necessary compromise.

Maybe. But I have one and there seems to be generous clearance both above and below. They could definitely shave a few inches of height there. Paradigm has made a bunch of 3-centres over the years with waveguides that have all had less height than the c208.

 

[middlemarch]

I have the NHT AC-2 which is the matching center channel speaker for the 3.3View attachment 513030

I spent years looking for one of those. Never found one. I've now gone over to all (mostly) Revel. My 3.3s are in the back of the room, silently watching all the Revel action. I'm using NHT Classic 3s as Wides, have thought about a way to use the 3.3s in that position, but that seems a bit over the top. Am I wrong?

 

[kyuu]

Maybe. But I have one and there seems to be generous clearance both above and below. They could definitely shave a few inches of height there.

Shaving a few inches means changing the volume of the enclosure.

Paradigm has made a bunch of 3-centres over the years with waveguides that have all had less height than the c208.

Paradigm's waveguides are nothing like what Revel uses, and we've seen from reviews that Paradigm's designs are typically pretty suboptimal.

 

[tineared]

I spent years looking for one of those. Never found one. I've now gone over to all (mostly) Revel. My 3.3s are in the back of the room, silently watching all the Revel action. I'm using NHT Classic 3s as Wides, have thought about a way to use the 3.3s in that position, but that seems a bit over the top. Am I wrong?

I can't imagine retiring my 3.3s until they develop a problem with no solution. They do require an amp with substantial power to sing. As I am aware that they are old and replacement parts can be problematic, I am always on the lookout for contingency replacements. I would use a KEF R6 meta as a substitute for my AC-2 should it come to an untimely end.
Which Revels are you now using for your mains?

 

[middlemarch]

I can't imagine retiring my 3.3s until they develop a problem with no solution. They do require an amp with substantial power to sing. As I am aware that they are old and replacement parts can be problematic, I am always on the lookout for contingency replacements. I would use a KEF R6 meta as a substitute for my AC-2 should it come to an untimely end.
Which Revels are you now using for your mains?

It's in my sig., Studio 2s for mains, Gem 2s for surrounds and a C426 center. The Classic 3s look a little lost between the Studios and Gems. But serve the purpose surprisingly well. I never did have a proper amp for the 3.3s, always just used a Denon at 140W/channel. I now use a Crown XLS1502 for the Studios. Never did a direct compare between the Studios and the 3.3s, but from memory the 3.3s could definitely hold their own. Those speakers can speak with authority.

 

[tineared]

It's in my sig., Studio 2s for mains, Gem 2s for surrounds and a C426 center. The Classic 3s look a little lost between the Studios and Gems. But serve the purpose surprisingly well. I never did have a proper amp for the 3.3s, always just used a Denon at 140W/channel. I now use a Crown XLS1502 for the Studios. Never did a direct compare between the Studios and the 3.3s, but from memory the 3.3s could definitely hold their own. Those speakers can speak with authority.

They certainly can. I use a Parasound HCA-3500 amp (350w@8 ohms) to drive them. I had a chance to pick up an "open box" C426Be center for $2K and almost bought it, but the size was just too daunting for placement. My main listening room is my living room and I'm married, so there's that. I bet it sounds glorious though.
I also have a pair of Classic Threes and they are amazing little bookshelves.
A pair of 3.3s are a terrible thing to waste. Perhaps you could set up a stereo in another room with the 3.3s. I don't know what volume you listen at, but I would advise an amp of at least 250W @8 Ohms. A 2 channel NCx500 from Buckeye would be an excellent choice
I designed my home theater setup for surround music and movies are just a bonus.

 

[kyuu]

I designed my home theater setup for surround music and movies are just a bonus.

I continue to be perplexed that there's this supposed divide between music and movies.

 

[EJ3]

They certainly can. I use a Parasound HCA-3500 amp (350w@8 ohms) to drive them. I had a chance to pick up an "open box" C426Be center for $2K and almost bought it, but the size was just too daunting for placement. My main listening room is my living room and I'm married, so there's that. I bet it sounds glorious though.
I also have a pair of Classic Threes and they are amazing little bookshelves.
A pair of 3.3s are a terrible thing to waste. Perhaps you could set up a stereo in another room with the 3.3s. I don't know what volume you listen at, but I would advise an amp of at least 250W @8 Ohms. A 2 channel NCx500 from Buckeye would be an excellent choice
I designed my home theater setup for surround music and movies are just a bonus.

I was 48 when I finally got married. Funny how that changes the speakers you use and where you can put them. But, this summer will be 21 years of marriage. So, it seems that both me and my stereo have 'adapted'.

 

[tineared]

I continue to be perplexed that there's this supposed divide between music and movies.

I agree. Folks frequently ask the question to OP's in need of advice.
For me there is no difference as long as the system is set up properly, but folks still seem to distinguish them for whatever reason...

 

[MarkS]

If you don't have a screen to worry about, you can get a much better center speaker. I believe @Kal Rubinson uses a KEF Blade 2 ...

 

[Buckchester]

Shaving a few inches means changing the volume of the enclosure.

Paradigm's waveguides are nothing like what Revel uses, and we've seen from reviews that Paradigm's designs are typically pretty suboptimal.

Ya of course but none of that means a smaller 3-way cannot be made. You’ve advocated for a 2-way. Well, that won’t sound the same as the c208 either. Could a 3-way smaller than the c208 sound better than a decent 2-way. I’d be willing to bet it could.

 

[Buckchester]

I continue to be perplexed that there's this supposed divide between music and movies.

Agreed. Another myth that needs to die.

 

[Mort]

I continue to be perplexed that there's this supposed divide between music and movies.

There are differences, no? I really prefer wide directivity fronts for movies but narrow for music.

It's equally silly to say there are NO differences.

 

[Oddball]

I continue to be perplexed that there's this supposed divide between music and movies.

There is fundamental difference in the source material if you define music as 2.0. If music is multi-channel, then really there are no major differences. Movie soundtracks will generally be able to put more strain on the system in the low end, but that is about it.

If one cares about 2.0 music 80% of the time I can see why they would not care so much about the center speaker.

Horizontal centers are grossly challenged but then there are still some that will do the decent job. As noted, acoustically transparent screens or no screen at all will give you the best option to match the LCR with the same towers. But then, if you care about video and budget, there is nothing in the PJ world that would match the performance of current 110-115" mini LEDs even at multiples of the price.

 

[kyuu]

There is fundamental difference in the source material if you define music as 2.0.

Well I also disagree with that. A lot of the material is in 2.0, of course, but that's not because of some inherent superiority in the format.

Even then, there's really no daylight between front L/R speakers that will perform well with music and those that would do well with movie soundtracks. The goals are the same.

For example, our esteemed Kal Rubinson has a lovely multichannel surround system that he built expressly for music. If he hooked that up to a Bluray player and listened to a movie soundtrack through it, would it be deficient in some way? I rather doubt it.