New Pre/amp vs old Pre/amp

[mcdonalk]

re: line preamplifiers:

Will a Bryston BR-20 or Benchmark HPA4 sound better than my existing Proceed (Madrigal) PRE (circa 1996)?

re: power amplifiers:

Will a Bryston 4B3 sound better than my existing Mark Levinson 333 amplifier (circa 1996)?

(I am not considering a Benchmark AHB2 because it is not rated for 4 ohm operation when used as a mono amp, required by my speakers. I have an AHB2 in a secondary system, though, operating in stereo, and I like it there a lot.)

I am asking these questions in an attempt to help me decide whether I should even bother shopping for an upgrade.

Thanks

 

[DVDdoug]

If you aren't hearing anything wrong, there's nothing to improve.

Most solid state electronics is better than human hearing and it doesn't have a "sound" (ignoring tone controls or EQ, and assuming you're not over-driving an amplifier into clipping). If there's a weakness or difference it will be noise (hum, hiss, or whine, in the background). All analog electronics generate some noise and depending on several factors it can sometimes be audible.

A preamp that's not actually being used as a phono preamp or mic preamp is operating at line level with little or no gain (it's more often attenuating than amplifying) and that makes noise problems rare. Power amps have gain which amplifies any internal noise as well as any noise fed into it.

For electronics, distortion and frequency response (the only other "sound quality" characteristics for electronics) are almost always better than human hearing (again unless you over-drive an amplifier into clipping).

On the other hand, different speakers (or different headphones) will always sound different (better or worse).

See Audiophoolery

 

[MAB]

re: line preamplifiers:

Will a Bryston BR-20 or Benchmark HPA4 sound better than my existing Proceed (Madrigal) PRE (circa 1996)?

re: power amplifiers:

Will a Bryston 4B3 sound better than my existing Mark Levinson 333 amplifier (circa 1996)?

(I am not considering a Benchmark AHB2 because it is not rated for 4 ohm operation when used as a mono amp, required by my speakers. I have an AHB2 in a secondary system, though, operating in stereo, and I like it there a lot.)

I am asking these questions in an attempt to help me decide whether I should even bother shopping for an upgrade.

Thanks

Those are all great, unless you are having issues, in which case may be better to repair than replace. The amp should be serviceable until end times.

If you had to replace, Bryston's 20 year warranty is hard to beat. I have quite a few Bryston amps, preamps, and even electronic crossovers and am really happy with their products. Benchmark is unquestionably awesome too.

 

[mike70]

Bryston / Mark Levinson ... you can find SOTA amplifiers much much cheaper.
See ASR reviews.

In other way, buy what you like more and have the power you need, in the end, the REAL sound difference (at same gain) will be generally inaudible.

So, it's up to you.

 

[Timcognito]

Only argument is features the new stuff connects to Ethernet, video screens, apps of all kinds, streaming services, NAS, control from phone/table, onboard DSP, so a one box solution. But sound wise, and cool old school charm that classic stuff hard to beat in pure 2.1 system.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Will a Bryston BR-20 or Benchmark HPA4 sound better than my existing Proceed (Madrigal) PRE (circa 1996)?

Do you hear any hiss? The PRE's SNR spec of "better than -80 dB (0 dB output)" has me slightly concerned.

Mind you, the power amp isn't exactly dead quiet either.

Mark Levinson No.333 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

79.5 dB(A) re: 2.83 V is a bit meh given the 26.7 dB gain, though this may not be such a big issue if you need an amplifier that can dish out well over 300 W into 8 ohms and even more into 4. (About 105 dB(A) worth of dynamic range in total.)
I found the schematic, but it's a very complex beast (not helped by everything running on nominal +/-110 V DC supplies), and I am struggling to identify the main noise sources, or the feedback path / gain-setting resistors.
Distortion wise, it seems fine. The ultrasonic peaking in the response is a bit concerning though and might hint at stability issues.
According to specs, "Power consumption: typically 350W at idle, 200W in standby." Good lord, now that's some oldschool Big Iron. It's like having a full gaming PC going. Your 66 kg of shipping weight is definitely doing something. For the 4B³ it'd be max 80 W at idle and 0.5 W in standby (the latter unsurprising as they no doubt want to sell their gear in the EU as well).

Many folks these days do not even need a preamp any more but will rely on a preamp-grade DAC or streamer instead. The No.333 would need about 2.4 Vrms to hit full power, which is well within reach of typical balanced outputs that max out at around 4 Vrms or even higher. The 4B³ needs about 3.5 V or 1.75 V depending on gain setting.