New Philharmonic BMR HT Towers

[EPICURIOUS007]

Would Philharmonic Audio ever consider doing a BMR Tower with 2 8" woofers for better power handling / lower distortion, maybe even increase sensitivity?
that would be endgame for me, especially being front ported, this could almost eliminate a need for a subwoofer for most content ( music and movies ), and placement would be more flexible. How many would consider such a speaker and how much would any of you would be willing to pay for a pair? Considering you can free up space and funds if you are willing to not have a subwoofer. With a total of 4- 8" scanspeak woofers ( 2 per speaker ) i could live without a subwoofer, music is more important than movies for me, tho would still like to get some visceral impact in movies without necessary feeling my house is gonna collapse. I also like the idea of deep bass not being localized in movies and having stereo deep bass in music when the content calls for it. What are your guy's thoughts on the matter?

 

[ryanosaur]

Would Philharmonic Audio ever consider doing a BMR Tower with 2 8" woofers for better power handling / lower distortion, maybe even increase sensitivity?
that would be endgame for me, especially being front ported, this could almost eliminate a need for a subwoofer for most content ( music and movies ), and placement would be more flexible. How many would consider such a speaker and how much would any of you would be willing to pay for a pair? Considering you can free up space and funds if you are willing to not have a subwoofer. With a total of 4- 8" scanspeak woofers ( 2 per speaker ) i could live without a subwoofer, music is more important than movies for me, tho would still like to get some visceral impact in movies without necessary feeling my house is gonna collapse. I also like the idea of deep bass not being localized in movies and having stereo deep bass in music when the content calls for it. What are your guy's thoughts on the matter?

Physically, it’s not impossible, but there is a lot going on that makes this not probable.

First, dual 8” woofers would require doubling the size of an already large Transmission Line based cabinet. As with any design, two woofers will require double the volume in which to operate.

Second, those amazing Revelator drivers are 4ohm. So making it be worthwhile and installing 2 in parallel would create a 2ohm load in the most power-demanding region of the Speaker.

Third, cost. Beyond the already expensive 8” Revelator, you will now need to account for production of the cabinets (double the materials, roughly), shipping the cabinets, (double the weight, roughly)… and I’m just gonna stop typing there.

If you want something more, you would be far better served with HT Towers and a pair of good 12” Subs. Hell, you could even get help designing a transmission line cabinet and hopefully get f6 in the low 20s if you are good! There is discussion of such a thing already in works using an 11” Revelator in a TL cabinet.

So while I crush dreams and fantasies, I also offer hope.

 

[EPICURIOUS007]

Physically, it’s not impossible, but there is a lot going on that makes this not probable.

First, dual 8” woofers would require doubling the size of an already large Transmission Line based cabinet. As with any design, two woofers will require double the volume in which to operate.

Second, those amazing Revelator drivers are 4ohm. So making it be worthwhile and installing 2 in parallel would create a 2ohm load in the most power-demanding region of the Speaker.

Third, cost. Beyond the already expensive 8” Revelator, you will now need to account for production of the cabinets (double the materials, roughly), shipping the cabinets, (double the weight, roughly)… and I’m just gonna stop typing there.

If you want something more, you would be far better served with HT Towers and a pair of good 12” Subs. Hell, you could even get help designing a transmission line cabinet and hopefully get f6 in the low 20s if you are good! There is discussion of such a thing already in works using an 11” Revelator in a TL cabinet.

So while I crush dreams and fantasies, I also offer hope.

11" revelator with raal tweeter and dual bmr midrange in a tl cabinet? i'm drooling over here.
that would be my end game for sure.
i'm between this and the mofi sourcepoint v10.
i'm just over subwoofers, can never get perfect integration and hate the space they take up.

 

[Everett T]

I still kinda want a matching BMR Center w/ a super wide center presentation w/ a much wider sweet spot for vocal/dialogue coverage, it kinda bothers me that they also dont use purifi woofers to match the HT Towers or Super BMR Monitor

The price of the center is pretty nice for the performance. The revelator woofers work great with the sealed enclosure and like all of Dennis's designs will have a wide dispersion As far as horizontal centers go, that is a good one. If you're really wanting a matching Purifi woofer just get a single Super BMR for the center (won't be as sensitive as the tower) or a 3rd tower.

 

[ryanosaur]

11" revelator with raal tweeter and dual bmr midrange in a tl cabinet? i'm drooling over here.
that would be my end game for sure.
i'm between this and the mofi sourcepoint v10.
i'm just over subwoofers, can never get perfect integration and hate the space they take up.

No, not a tower with an 11” woofer, but a separate TL External Bass Module.

 

[EPICURIOUS007]

No, not a tower with an 11” woofer, but a separate TL External Bass Module.

you really like to crush all dreams don't you?

 

[Alannn]

i'm just over subwoofers, can never get perfect integration and hate the space they take up.

At the price and performance level you are referring to, separate subwoofers are the logical solution, so more common. The price and placement flexibility beat full range speakers alone for a given performance level. The software to integrate 2 or 3 subs is extremely effective. Very labor intensive, but it can be hired out if it's a project you don't enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with your preference for powerful deep base built into your mains, simpler setup, but it's hard to match the value and performance of modern well integrated subwoofers. It's all about getting the system to perform in your unique room.

 

[ryanosaur]

you really like to crush all dreams don't you?

No.

I revel in it!

But only sometimes.

 

[jetrep]

That's an exciting problem to solve. At the end of the day, I could not get the volume out of the BMR monitors that I demand. (In fact I blew a woofer testing it.) So I went with the HT towers, which I consider their best product.

I'm in the same position. My BMR monitors sound great and look amazing but I don't like how cautious I need to be with volume when playing them. They can be sounding and performing great on one song but then another song starts playing with more bass and they woofer is being over driven. Sure, I can cross them at 80hz or so and lean on a subwoofer but I like to run speakers full range.

Are you running your HT Towers full range? How much louder will they go compared to the BMR monitors? Any concerns about over driving the woofers?

 

[Mort]

Are you running your HT Towers full range? How much louder will they go compared to the BMR monitors? Any concerns about over driving the woofers?

I'm not. But they go a lot louder, 10db or more. I have zero concern but they are crossed at 80 with a 15";sub.

 

[amper42]

I'm in the same position. My BMR monitors sound great and look amazing but I don't like how cautious I need to be with volume when playing them. They can be sounding and performing great on one song but then another song starts playing with more bass and they woofer is being over driven. Sure, I can cross them at 80hz or so and lean on a subwoofer but I like to run speakers full range.

Are you running your HT Towers full range? How much louder will they go compared to the BMR monitors? Any concerns about over driving the woofers?

My BMR monitors have AMAZING BASS. In fact, the bass is more prominent than any other bookshelf speaker I have and in some cases exceeds standing full size 50" speakers. I have never heard the low end being over driven. It just doesn't happen in my use. How loud is your music 100dB?

 

[jetrep]

My BMR monitors have AMAZING BASS. In fact, the bass is more prominent than any other bookshelf speaker I have and in some cases exceeds standing full size 50" speakers. I have never heard the low end being over driven. It just doesn't happen in my use. How loud is your music 100dB?

I'll dip into or I'd like to dip into the 90s for dB. I don't have to push them that loud for the woofers to be over driven on some songs though. The bass is great for the size of the speaker but it by no means comes even close the output of my RF-7 IIIs. I'm using the speakers in the large open area of our living/dining room/kitchen.

 

[WillBrink]

At the price and performance level you are referring to, separate subwoofers are the logical solution, so more common. The price and placement flexibility beat full range speakers alone for a given performance level. The software to integrate 2 or 3 subs is extremely effective. Very labor intensive, but it can be hired out if it's a project you don't enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with your preference for powerful deep base built into your mains, simpler setup, but it's hard to match the value and performance of modern well integrated subwoofers. It's all about getting the system to perform in your unique room.

In these days of base management, room correction software, etc?

 

[Mort]

My BMR monitors have AMAZING BASS. In fact, the bass is more prominent than any other bookshelf speaker I have and in some cases exceeds standing full size 50" speakers. I have never heard the low end being over driven. It just doesn't happen in my use. How loud is your music 100dB?

It doesn't need to be that loud to exceed the BMRs audibly transparent range. Play Billie Eilish 'Bad Guy' at 90db, and trust me it'll blow. Probably less

 

[ry_]

Welp that’s what the super BMR or the HT towers are for.

 

[Mort]

Welp that’s what the super BMR or the HT towers are for.

Which is why I own the HT and not the BMR monitor which is basically the same size with a stand. They, of course, cost more than double.

Don't get me wrong, I love the monitor. It's in my audio reproduction hall of fame. But it's got limits I don't want.

 

[Everett T]

I haven't experienced any issues with my V1 scan speak woofer other than poor recordings... The SB are easier to drive so over driving them is a little more difficult but that's different than handling low bass with them.

 

[amper42]

The 6" SB Acoustics SB17CAC35-4 included in my BMR Monitor can reach down to 38Hz pretty easy. With my Purifi amp driving it - it's a monster. I can use the RME ADI-2 DAC FS software loudness settings to get it to sound within 90% of the Revel F328BE speakers located in an adjacent room. What's funny is the F328Be uses more elevated bass EQ in this configuration to get to my desired FR than the BMR Monitor. I rarely play louder than 85dB, but I am super impressed how the BMR Monitor can sound so great with such a small box (in comparison). I don't use it with a sub-woofer and it kicks. I mostly use it for jazz and classical. Your mileage may vary with other genre.

 

[arichman]

I have the BMR towers powered by Hypex NC400 monoblocks crossed over at 80 hz in a small home theater listening at about 2 meters distance. My listening is in the mid to high 80s dB, according to the master volume. There is a Minidsp Flex handling the crossover to matching Monolith M12 v2 subwoofers, and no boosts that might undermine my assumed headroom. I know that the HT Tower is the preferred solution for Home Theater, but I bought my Towers before the HT existed. I'm very satisfied with the SPL as is. How worried about my RAAL tweeters should I be? What is my recourse if the worst happens?

 

[tw 2022]

I have the BMR towers powered by Hypex NC400 monoblocks crossed over at 80 hz in a small home theater listening at about 2 meters distance. My listening is in the mid to high 80s dB, according to the master volume. There is a Minidsp Flex handling the crossover to matching Monolith M12 v2 subwoofers, and no boosts that might undermine my assumed headroom. I know that the HT Tower is the preferred solution for Home Theater, but I bought my Towers before the HT existed. I'm very satisfied with the SPL as is. How worried about my RAAL tweeters should I be? What is my recourse if the worst happens?

You don't have many worries.... If you blow a tweeter call Dennis, as long as replacement tweeters are available he'll replace it at cost from my recollection... The raal may be tough to get at some point in the future but afaik he can still get them...