NEW O-NOORUS D4 (TPA3255 PFFB / HDMI ARC / ES9023P)

[Guddu]

The 3e Audio A5 was just reviewed here and maintains 102 to 103 dB SINAD via RCA for low gain / high gain. Same thing for the Topping PA5 II, about 2 dB lower with RCA but still way north of 100 dB.

You are comparing power amplifiers to integrated amplifier.
For comparison, pick any amplifier/receiver with digital inputs.

 

[capslock]

I think that artificial distinction has confounded us already in the A5 thread. In my book, an integrated amplifier is one that contains a preamp and a volume control. Both A5 and PA5 II fit that bill.

Why would digital inputs result in lower SINAD if well constructed? Decent standalone DACs are well of power stage only and integrated amps, so I don't see why that would change when you integrate the DAC.

 

[Guddu]

I think that artificial distinction has confounded us already in the A5 thread. In my book, an integrated amplifier is one that contains a preamp and a volume control. Both A5 and PA5 II fit that bill.

Okay

Why would digital inputs result in lower SINAD if well constructed? Decent standalone DACs are well of power stage only and integrated amps, so I don't see why that would change when you integrate the DAC.

+1 …… for experts

 

[capslock]

In the D3, the USB in to analog out is handled by an ALC chip that integrates the bridge and an inferior DAC. There, and only there, I would see why you would get a SINAD in the 80s, which by the way, is not CD quality.

 

[capslock]

@Alexander Lin
This is still in the specs on the O-Noorus homepage:
Specifications：
Model: D4
THD: ≤ 0.01%
SNR: ≥ 108dB
SINAD: 87dB

If SNR is indeed 108 dB and SINAD 87 dB, this must be due to distortion which is way too high for PFFB. Is this maybe a copy-paste error from the D3 which does not have PFFB?

 

[capslock]

On the other hand, I have doubts about the announced performances given its PFFB implementation.

Dani, can you say what misgivings you have about the PFFB implementation. From the measurements I have seen

O-Noorus D1 [TPA3255 PFFB] Stereo Amplifier - User Impressions | Owner's Thread

Wonder if there's a signal sensing auto-on/off function when used as a power amp (BP mode). There is no auto-ON/Off signal sensing feature for the amplifier, auto-ON/OFF is there only for screen display

www.audiosciencereview.com

the unmodded D1 performs better than some PFFB implementations (Fosi V3 Mono, Aiyima A70) but not quite at the level of a Topping PA5 or 3e A5. To my understanding, the D4 incorporates the mods by @ICIETDIYEUR, so it should be even better?

 

[SirManos]

Hello

So I just registered in the forum because after some research I decided to buy a D4 and wanted to share my impresions and ask a few questions.
I just received it and I'm still getting used to it. The build quality is good, all aluminium. Knobs are also good and smooth, zero complaints there.

I have to say I'm a complete audio noob. Before getting this D4 I had a cheap amp with an integrated subwoofer (a 5.1 home cinema that started to fail after many years in service) paired with my father's pioneer Z72, which I'm still using but without the subwoofer.

So far I'm missing a bit the bass I had before , but I can tell the difference in some low-mid frequencies that were a complete mess before and now they are all clear and diferentiated, if that makes any sense, so I'm happy in that regard

Has anyone ordered from O-Noorus directly? Do they prepay EU-VAT like Aliexpress, hifigo, Linsoul do?

They have an Aliexpress store (and prices seem to be the same as on their homepage), but the D4 is not listed on Ali.

I ordered directly from their store and didn't have to pay any aditional taxes (I'm a spaniard), so it's the same as ordering any other product from AliExpress

Here comes the question. I'm using the USB input directly from my pc, and i found out that it only gets to 16/48Khz. I didn't see it in the specs, but checking the manual it's true that the USB input is like that, while optical/coaxial gets to 192Khz. My motherboard does not have those outputs, so I'm stuck with USB.

According to this post, the D3 goes up to 32/384 (supposedly at least), so I think it's very strange that the D4 is only 16/48

O-NOORUS D3 - TPA3255 Amp with ES9023P DAC, NJW1194 Vol Control with remote

yeah the Chinese should be praying every day to Texas Instruments for delivering the TPA3225 about psu rolling on integrated amps... someone tried this on some brand of chinese integrated and it fried the unit on a Fosi V3 all the power is going into the power amp stage but these units...

audiosciencereview.com

Is this a bad thing? Should I get an external DAC? or do you think it won't make any difference?
Do you all have any advice for me or need any information now that I have the device in my hands?

Thanks!

 

[Guddu]

Hello

So I just registered in the forum because after some research I decided to buy a D4 and wanted to share my impresions and ask a few questions.
I just received it and I'm still getting used to it. The build quality is good, all aluminium. Knobs are also good and smooth, zero complaints there.

I have to say I'm a complete audio noob. Before getting this D4 I had a cheap amp with an integrated subwoofer (a 5.1 home cinema that started to fail after many years in service) paired with my father's pioneer Z72, which I'm still using but without the subwoofer.

So far I'm missing a bit the bass I had before , but I can tell the difference in some low-mid frequencies that were a complete mess before and now they are all clear and diferentiated, if that makes any sense, so I'm happy in that regard



I ordered directly from their store and didn't have to pay any aditional taxes (I'm a spaniard), so it's the same as ordering any other product from AliExpress

Here comes the question. I'm using the USB input directly from my pc, and i found out that it only gets to 16/48Khz. I didn't see it in the specs, but checking the manual it's true that the USB input is like that, while optical/coaxial gets to 192Khz. My motherboard does not have those outputs, so I'm stuck with USB.

View attachment 420136

According to this post, the D3 goes up to 32/384 (supposedly at least), so I think it's very strange that the D4 is only 16/48

O-NOORUS D3 - TPA3255 Amp with ES9023P DAC, NJW1194 Vol Control with remote

yeah the Chinese should be praying every day to Texas Instruments for delivering the TPA3225 about psu rolling on integrated amps... someone tried this on some brand of chinese integrated and it fried the unit on a Fosi V3 all the power is going into the power amp stage but these units...

audiosciencereview.com

Is this a bad thing? Should I get an external DAC? or do you think it won't make any difference?
Do you all have any advice for me or need any information now that I have the device in my hands?

Thanks!

Might be a driver issue?

 

[Alexander Lin]

Hello

So I just registered in the forum because after some research I decided to buy a D4 and wanted to share my impresions and ask a few questions.
I just received it and I'm still getting used to it. The build quality is good, all aluminium. Knobs are also good and smooth, zero complaints there.

I have to say I'm a complete audio noob. Before getting this D4 I had a cheap amp with an integrated subwoofer (a 5.1 home cinema that started to fail after many years in service) paired with my father's pioneer Z72, which I'm still using but without the subwoofer.

So far I'm missing a bit the bass I had before , but I can tell the difference in some low-mid frequencies that were a complete mess before and now they are all clear and diferentiated, if that makes any sense, so I'm happy in that regard



I ordered directly from their store and didn't have to pay any aditional taxes (I'm a spaniard), so it's the same as ordering any other product from AliExpress

Here comes the question. I'm using the USB input directly from my pc, and i found out that it only gets to 16/48Khz. I didn't see it in the specs, but checking the manual it's true that the USB input is like that, while optical/coaxial gets to 192Khz. My motherboard does not have those outputs, so I'm stuck with USB.

View attachment 420136

According to this post, the D3 goes up to 32/384 (supposedly at least), so I think it's very strange that the D4 is only 16/48

O-NOORUS D3 - TPA3255 Amp with ES9023P DAC, NJW1194 Vol Control with remote

yeah the Chinese should be praying every day to Texas Instruments for delivering the TPA3225 about psu rolling on integrated amps... someone tried this on some brand of chinese integrated and it fried the unit on a Fosi V3 all the power is going into the power amp stage but these units...

audiosciencereview.com

Is this a bad thing? Should I get an external DAC? or do you think it won't make any difference?
Do you all have any advice for me or need any information now that I have the device in my hands?

Thanks!

D4, USB supports up to 48Khz, DAC is ES9023P, the highest normal frequency is 192khz, USB IIS is decoded by ES9023P,
D3 is another architecture, USB chip is directly output analog.

 

[Alexander Lin]

@Alexander Lin
This is still in the specs on the O-Noorus homepage:
Specifications：
Model: D4
THD: ≤ 0.01%
SNR: ≥ 108dB
SINAD: 87dB

If SNR is indeed 108 dB and SINAD 87 dB, this must be due to distortion which is way too high for PFFB. Is this maybe a copy-paste error from the D3 which does not have PFFB?

Let's confirm the parameters again.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hello SirManos

regarding your D4 amplifier and optimal use with your PC, here is a solution with answer in pictures ->

Thanks to the addition of this small card in your PC, you will get the most out of the resolution offered by your new O-NOORUS D4 amplifier.

Personally, I use 24bit/96KHz.

Kind regards.

 

[Aaronb1138]

Been lurking for so long and it just seems like they're just going in circles purposely not giving people what they want. Every thread on Chinese amps has people telling companies what they want but they just continue to ignore it.

Why even have low pass when you don't amplify the sub channel?

Oh because some people use amps without low pass filter?

Then why have it fixed at 80Hz?

Mind boggling.

All of these companies have learned from the West's most narcissistic sociopaths in marketing how to convert durable goods into consumables.

They've been pretty successful unfortunately, with people who would have bought one solid $500-1000 AVR or amp 20 years ago have dropped a few $k $100-200 at a time chasing a class D that does it all.

I'm guilty of it. It took getting a Aiyima A70 and racking my brain about the absurd sub crossover range for it to finally click. The including the feature but making it a disability is part of the grift.

 

[bolo_nz]

All of these companies have learned from the West's most narcissistic sociopaths in marketing how to convert durable goods into consumables.

They've been pretty successful unfortunately, with people who would have bought one solid $500-1000 AVR or amp 20 years ago have dropped a few $k $100-200 at a time chasing a class D that does it all.

I'm guilty of it. It took getting a Aiyima A70 and racking my brain about the absurd sub crossover range for it to finally click. The including the feature but making it a disability is part of the grift.

You're spot on about everything, if they make the one product that does everything within a reasonable budget then people would only need to buy it once.

For example the WiiM amp not having PFFB to the amp pro with PFFB and all products not being able to be used as a USB DAC could be intentional so you can buy the next one that will have it (just my speculation)

You can already see from all the Chinese amp reviews that they just drip feed us with the same old products with missing key features that measure slightly better to prep you for the next iteration that gives us features nobody even asked for but yet you pay extra for.

 

[Robertosimus]

You're spot on about everything, if they make the one product that does everything within a reasonable budget then people would only need to buy it once.

For example the WiiM amp not having PFFB to the amp pro with PFFB and all products not being able to be used as a USB DAC could be intentional so you can buy the next one that will have it (just my speculation)

You can already see from all the Chinese amp reviews that they just drip feed us with the same old products with missing key features that measure slightly better to prep you for the next iteration that gives us features nobody even asked for but yet you pay extra for.

I understand how you can interpretate it that way but i do not believe they intentionally do it.

I think most of these companies are engineers and business ppl who spin off from big manufacturing firms realizing they can deliver a good products for competitive prices to customers. They might not have the resources to do a proper market investigation and probably dont have a real R&D department and the western market probably doesn't demand the same as asia and africa (who often simply cant afford the mainstream stuff).
These communities are their R&D departments.

Fosi etc is great stuff for the money they sell. They cant compete with big brands because they cant deliver that functionality and quality (yet) They dont intend to offer full options models. They target the people who dont want to pay big brand prices.

I think they are doing a great job offering great quality and functionally for around $100.

We shouldn't expect full options and high spec implementation. The more they move towards that the more the prices move towards the big brands.

Your expectations are too high

 

[bolo_nz]

I understand how you can interpretate it that way but i do not believe they intentionally do it.

I think most of these companies are engineers and business ppl who spin off from big manufacturing firms realizing they can deliver a good products for competitive prices to customers. They might not have the resources to do a proper market investigation and probably dont have a real R&D department and the western market probably doesn't demand the same as asia and africa (who often simply cant afford the mainstream stuff).
These communities are their R&D departments.

Fosi etc is great stuff for the money they sell. They cant compete with big brands because they cant deliver that functionality and quality (yet) They dont intend to offer full options models. They target the people who dont want to pay big brand prices.

I think they are doing a great job offering great quality and functionally for around $100.

We shouldn't expect full options and high spec implementation. The more they move towards that the more the prices move towards the big brands.

Your expectations are too high

If you're talking about what they offer at their price point then sure, they're great value. But it doesn't mean we should accept their draw backs if it could've been avoided.

The Aiyima A70 is the best and most egregious example, doesn't it cost them (and subsequently us, the consumer) to implement a low pass filter? Only for it be at a completely useless crossover range. If the Aiyima implemented usable low pass frequencies they could make more sales since the consumer can now make use of the low pass filter with say a bare bones amp without any crossovers for a passive subwoofer.

I think if you're on this forum you most likely have unrealistic expectations somewhere so I won't deny that!

 

[Robertosimus]

i'm a bit confused by everyone in this discussion.
Aren't these the most common scenarios:
Scenario 1: A person uses full range speakers an no subwoofer.
For this scenario the ampifier needs a full range for the main speakers.
For this scenario the ampifier does not need a low pass for the subwoofer output.

Scenario 2: A person uses small speakers and an active subwoofer with internal low pass.
For this scenario the ampifier needs a high pass for the main speakers ~ around 120hz.
For this scenario the ampifier does not need a low pass for the subwoofer output.

Scenario 3: A person uses full range speakers and an active subwoofer with internal low pass.
For this scenario the ampifier needs a full range for the main speakers.
For this scenario the ampifier does not need a low pass for the subwoofer output.

So a low pass for the subwoofer is never needed but high pass ~120hz for the main speakers is very very usefull.

So would'nt a full range/high pass toggle (cheap and efficient) or variable range (adds more costs and risks) for the main speakers and no low pass for the subwoofer be a better option for the amplifier?

Maybe this can still be implemented in the D3 PRO?

Also i dont like the fixed low pass for the sub at 80Hz. That could result in a gap between 80Hz for the subwoofer and ~120Hz for the main speakers.



I fully support the request for a high pass filter for the mains, not necessarily adjustable but why do you want a low pass filter for the (unpowered) subwoofer output?

I see its not possible to edit your own posts later in time.


I would like to paddle back on my own comment.

I just came to the realisation that not all active subwoofers have a quality LPF implemented and a proper LPF on the SUB out actually is a good idea.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Yes: manufacturers could even include the speaker while you're at it -> LOL

 

[SirManos]

Hello SirManos

regarding your D4 amplifier and optimal use with your PC, here is a solution with answer in pictures ->

View attachment 420200

View attachment 420201
Thanks to the addition of this small card in your PC, you will get the most out of the resolution offered by your new O-NOORUS D4 amplifier.

Personally, I use 24bit/96KHz.

Kind regards.

Hello!

Thanks, that's very interesting. I'll look into it.
I've compared the built in DAC of my PC (24/192) with the one in the D4 (so I've used the D4 only as amplifier connected with RCA to minijack adapter) and I just can't use the one in the PC, I didn't think there would be a difference, but there is, and very noticeable, the one in the D4 sounds so much better. I don't normally use hi-res audio, so I don't think I could tell anything between 16 and 24 bits.

Having said that, there are two things I want to point out about the device:
- When connected through USB, there is a slight audio start delay, so if there is a song that starts right away after coming from stand by, the first, 0.5s are not played. It's a bit annoying honestly.
Do you think that using a spdif adapter would solve it? I think it's a problem of the DAC itself, as it does the same when connected with bluetooth, but not when using the pc as DAC. Right now I would say it's my main complain about the D4

- The USB is powering other devices that are connected to my PC, like a desktop lamp or the keyboard, when the PC is off. I always turn off the D4 when I turn off the PC just in case, but it seems a bit weird that I can power a lamp with the D4 PSU. I don't know if it is triggering the mobo usb stand by power or something.

Regards

 

[Alexander Lin]

Hello!

Thanks, that's very interesting. I'll look into it.
I've compared the built in DAC of my PC (24/192) with the one in the D4 (so I've used the D4 only as amplifier connected with RCA to minijack adapter) and I just can't use the one in the PC, I didn't think there would be a difference, but there is, and very noticeable, the one in the D4 sounds so much better. I don't normally use hi-res audio, so I don't think I could tell anything between 16 and 24 bits.

Having said that, there are two things I want to point out about the device:
- When connected through USB, there is a slight audio start delay, so if there is a song that starts right away after coming from stand by, the first, 0.5s are not played. It's a bit annoying honestly.
Do you think that using a spdif adapter would solve it? I think it's a problem of the DAC itself, as it does the same when connected with bluetooth, but not when using the pc as DAC. Right now I would say it's my main complain about the D4

- The USB is powering other devices that are connected to my PC, like a desktop lamp or the keyboard, when the PC is off. I always turn off the D4 when I turn off the PC just in case, but it seems a bit weird that I can power a lamp with the D4 PSU. I don't know if it is triggering the mobo usb stand by power or something.

Regards

Thank you for your feedback. This is a DSP feedback issue. You can update the DSP firmware via a USB flash drive. I will notify you when we have a new version after optimization.

 

[ElJRe]

Hi all!

Anyone knows if the HDMI input is compatible with CEC?

Cheers!