New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[Jachó]

¡Estoy muy feliz de informarles que finalmente todo funcionó!

Según tengo entendido, el problema era el firmware antiguo que tenían mis monitores (1.0 o algo así). Algún tipo de falta de comunicación entre los monitores y el último software MA1.

Me envían una versión anterior del software MA1. (Versión 1.6.4.3433)

La versión anterior detectó los monitores en el primer intento e inmediatamente me pidió que actualizara al firmware 1.1.7 para ambos monitores.

Después de la actualización exitosa, probé la última versión disponible para MA1 en ese momento (2.1). Nuevamente el software detectó los monitores y me pidió que actualizara la 1.1.10 y ambos monitores se actualizaron exitosamente.

Tuve otro problema en el siguiente paso ya que MA1 no pudo detectar el micrófono.

Neumann me dijo que lanzarán una versión actualizada de MA1 que solucionará errores menores. ¡Afortunadamente ese fue el caso!

¡Se actualizó por última vez a 2.2 y finalmente todo funcionó!

Estoy más que satisfecho con el resultado final después de las mediciones de mi habitación semitratada. La respuesta de graves es mucho más ajustada y la imagen estéreo ahora es muy clara.

¡Gracias a Markus que intentó ayudarme, a todos los que respondieron aquí y, por supuesto, al equipo de soporte de Neumann por encontrar la solución finalmente!

Hola, tengo exactamente el mismo problema, ¿podrías enviarme la versión del software 1.6.4.3433 por favor? Mi correo electrónico es [email protected], muchas gracias.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

As a follow up: I think i found how to include analog speakers - i tried it with a 5.1 layout:

View attachment 370268

As i don´t have i center, i cannot continue though. Quad is not working this way. Maybe i´ll borrow another KH80 from my friend and try if it´s working. I think it should probably be okay to ditch the center afterwards as the corrections are stored in the speakers.

Another follow-up: I was able to perform a 5.1 calibration with a borrowed KH80 as center (total system: 2 KH750, 2 KH310, 3 KH80). As far as i understand, this only works with at least 2 KH750s and you have to connect 1 analog speaker to the left channel (A) of 1 KH750 and send the subwoofer (LFE) channel to the right channel (B).
Afterwards i disconnected the borrowed KH80 and am able to use the calibrated system in a quad configuration.
This means, the 2.3 version + multichannel extension should support systems with KH120/310/420, if there is 1 KH750 per analog channel in the system - but you don´t need another dedicated sub for the .1 LFE.
Not sure about the details as i did not find documentation. Also it is marked as a "preview" feature, so they may change things in the future.

 

[Caprichoso]

If I understand you correctly, the problem might be that the MA1 software needs the mic and the speakers connected to the same audio interface. So far as I know (if its still this way), you cannot use a separate DAC for speakers and separate interface for mic, you need an interface which manages both.

For example, I used a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 for calibration and afterwards switched speaker connection to my SMSL DO100 DAC.

While I wait for Neumann support I looked at the Scarlett 2i2. Not sure how I would use it.

1. It has an XLR microphone jack. My microphone output is USB via a Shure X2u converter.

2. The speaker outlets are 1/4" jacks. The KH 120 uses XLR inputs.

Part of the problem is I don't understand what "the same audio interface" means. The DAC and microphone are all connected to the Mac audio interface as shown in the Audio Midi setup app from the same USB hub.

 

[danielpugh]

Hello,

I have KH80 combined with a SVS-1000 subwoofer. The SVS subwoofer is doing the filtering: 80Hz lowpass and KH80 high pass for the KH80. Filters slope is at 12dB/octave.

With such a set-up can I benefit from the MA1 system? I believe not really as:

• MA1 can configure the KH80 but they only kick in above 80Hz,
• MA1 can't correct the part done by the SVS subwoofer.

But maybe there are MA1 features or use cases I'm not aware of and that could allow to workaround my hybrid set-up?

I have a Umik microphone and some experience with REW, so it is my way to go. But the good results achieved with MA1 looks really interesting, so if I miss something, then good to know.

JMF

Hi, sorry for jumping on the thread. I have a svs sub and small d6-s DAC. I'm looking for some active monitors and thinking kh80 would be perfect (was thinking 8030c, but distance is small so worried about hiss).

The only bit I was worried about is I can't see any controls on the rear for high pass filter i.e. to filter what is being played by the sub so it doesn't play on the monitors.

How have you added the high-pass on the kh80? Via the iPad app, control on the rear of speaker I've misunderstood or via the MA1 in theory?
Sorry if this is obvious/asked before.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

While I wait for Neumann support I looked at the Scarlett 2i2. Not sure how I would use it.

1. It has an XLR microphone jack. My microphone output is USB via a Shure X2u converter.

2. The speaker outlets are 1/4" jacks. The KH 120 uses XLR inputs.

Part of the problem is I don't understand what "the same audio interface" means. The DAC and microphone are all connected to the Mac audio interface as shown in the Audio Midi setup app from the same USB hub.

For the calibration process with MA 1, you only use the Scarlett as sound device (mic input and "soundcard"). You don´t use you DAC or th Shure thingy. You connect the Scarlett via USB to your computer, plug the MA 1 mic into the XLR mic input jack and connect the speakers to the outputs of the Scarlett with 1/4" to XLR adapters. In MA 1 software, you use the Scarlett as sound device. The same interface means, everything is connected to the Scarlett.
When calibration is done, you can use your other DAC for music listening again, instead of the Scarlett, if you want. The calibration is stored in the speakers and works independent from the sound device.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hi, sorry for jumping on the thread. I have a svs sub and small d6-s DAC. I'm looking for some active monitors and thinking kh80 would be perfect (was thinking 8030c, but distance is small so worried about hiss).

The only bit I was worried about is I can't see any controls on the rear for high pass filter i.e. to filter what is being played by the sub so it doesn't play on the monitors.

How have you added the high-pass on the kh80? Via the iPad app, control on the rear of speaker I've misunderstood or via the MA1 in theory?
Sorry if this is obvious/asked before.

The KH80 does not have a subwoofer output, so it can not filter the signal for the sub. It is the other way round: Neumann subs have filtered outputs for the main speakers. If you use the iPad app, you can configure a high pass for the KH80, if you want, but you can´t manage the SVS sub with the Neumann software, of course. MA 1 can automatically calibrate the KH80 without sub (full range) or integrate the KH750 sub, but only this, not a third party sub. If you want a third party sub, it is more practical using a MiniDSP Flex or something like that.

 

[danielpugh]

The KH80 does not have a subwoofer output, so it can not filter the signal for the sub. It is the other way round: Neumann subs have filtered outputs for the main speakers. If you use the iPad app, you can configure a high pass for the KH80, if you want, but you can´t manage the SVS sub with the Neumann software, of course. MA 1 can automatically calibrate the KH80 without sub (full range) or integrate the KH750 sub, but only this, not a third party sub. If you want a third party sub, it is more practical using a MiniDSP Flex or something like that.

So it's for pc -> DAC -> (2 outputs) RCA to sub with its own filter, and XLR to monitors.
I can't afford the kh 750 so yes 3rd party.
So I need the iPad and can use it to add the filter - cool.
Ideally I'd avoid having to get the expensive mic.
I have a umik-1 and a umik-2 (and roon).
Was thinking rew and using as a filter via roon.
Minidsp would be nice, but initially looking to just filter the lower frequency to the monitors and maybe experiment a bit with what I've got (I can get hold of an iPad)...

 

[Caprichoso]

You don´t use you DAC or th Shure thingy. You connect the Scarlett via USB to your computer, plug the MA 1 mic into the XLR mic input jack and connect the speakers to the outputs of the Scarlett with 1/4" to XLR adapters

Are you aware of any DAW that doesn't require the adapters? I.E.

1. Microphone USB and XLR inputs
2. Speaker XLR outputs

Neumann support confirms, as you said, that both devices need to be connected to the same interface

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Are you aware of any DAW that doesn't require the adapters? I.E.

1. Microphone USB and XLR inputs
2. Speaker XLR outputs

Neumann support confirms, as you said, that both devices need to be connected to the same interface

You mean an interface? I am sure there are some, but only the bigger, more expensive units have XLR outputs. Most smaller devices have balanced 6.3mm TRS jack outputs (a "stereo" plug per channel). These are as good as XLR and there is no problem using either an adapter or a TRS to XLR cable. I use this one, for example: https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_stage_22_sgn4_0500_sw.htm

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Version 2.3.1 released

 

[dasherzx]

Hi, what would be the cheapest budget audio interface i can use with the kit as i only have a dac? would a behringer umc22 suffice? https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=0805-AAJ

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hi, what would be the cheapest budget audio interface i can use with the kit as i only have a dac? would a behringer umc22 suffice? https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=0805-AAJ

Hardware should be sufficient, because it has 48v phantom power, but i don't know if it has an ASIO driver. This is the thing i would check before buying.

 

[Ron78]

Do I really need 2 KH750s for 2 KH310s for MA1 5.1 calibration or is 1 KH750 also sufficient for 2 KH310s? Would I run the KH310 Large or separate 35hz-40Hz but also use LFE via sub?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Do I really need 2 KH750s for 2 KH310s for MA1 5.1 calibration or is 1 KH750 also sufficient for 2 KH310s? Would I run the KH310 Large or separate 35hz-40Hz but also use LFE via sub?

You need one KH750 per analog channel, so 2 KH750 for 2 KH310 or 3 KH750 for 3 KH310.
Not 100% sure about the signal routing, but as far as i understand, each KH750 has 2 channels. One is used for the connected speaker and the other for LFE. So both subs get the same LFE signal and also - i think - are used to relieve the main speakers from content below 80Hz. So i think the left sub gets LFE plus < 80 Hz content from the front left channel.
So it should be no difference if you set the fronts to large or not, because the bass content is routed to the subs anyway.

 

[oslius]

in regards to the 3rd party sub (ex: svs 1000pro) integration (with a DSP speaker like kh150), if this sub has DSP (peq, phase so on ), why we can't do a manual integration based on MA1 measurements? isn't MA1 displaying the necessarily configuration in the installed app (to be manually entered into the 3rd party sub) ? or maybe there are more parameters involved there aside of the ones available in a common sub with DSP ? or i'm missing something ...

 

[vssyla]

I have the kh120ii, love them. I definitely want a sub to extend low end, but the kh750 is $$$ (especially if I want dual subs). Thinking about the minidsp and Dirac live.

Also side note: while I love the kh120ii, the ma-1 calibrations I’ve done feel like they could be improved. I’ve followed all directions and repeated measurements, but the readings of my room are a bit bizarre and also I’m always left with A LOT of mid-high presence in my speakers post calibration.

 

[scooby don't]

Does anyone know if the calculations or corrections MA-1 makes are appropriate or valid for setups that aren't equilateral triangles?

And also, does MA-1 software still require me to steal a mic's serial number from somewhere if I just want to use it to turn off the led or the standby function (if I don't buy the MA-1 kit)?

Thanks

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Does anyone know if the calculations or corrections MA-1 makes are appropriate or valid for setups that aren't equilateral triangles?

Yes, just enter the listening distance (speaker -> LP), not the distance between speaker a and speaker b. 1st mic position should be at listening position.

And also, does MA-1 software still require me to steal a mic's serial number from somewhere if I just want to use it to turn off the led or the standby function (if I don't buy the MA-1 kit)?

Thanks

Not 100% sure, but i think the serial is asked only when you try starting the alignment. So you should be able to just define a setup and save, but cancel the alignment. Then you should be able to change the LED setting. Maybe someone can confirm.

 

[Zaireeka]

Does anyone know if the calculations or corrections MA-1 makes are appropriate or valid for setups that aren't equilateral triangles?

And also, does MA-1 software still require me to steal a mic's serial number from somewhere if I just want to use it to turn off the led or the standby function (if I don't buy the MA-1 kit)?

Thanks

You don't even need to install MA-1 to access such settings.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-monitor-alignment.17902/page-68#post-1964856

 

[fakemaxwell]

Neumann really needs to come out with a multichannel DSP sub. Multichannel MA 1 really does not work with their current range of monitors.