New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[v3kt0r]

Hey Guys, couple questions:

1st. question:
I use a pair of KH120 + KH750 with iPad Neumann control app. Looking for MA1 but don't want to buy extra audio interface. What if I use Tascam DR-40x recorder with phantom 48v input, which can be also used as usb audio interface and Mytek Brooklyn DAC+? Is that possible to use DR-40x for input and Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ for output? I would use DR-40x only, it has 3.5 output, I could solder xlr L+R to 3.5 cable but don't think the result will be correct since it's balanced to unbalanced connection.

2nd. question:
Or, I should keep it running like that and save money since I use my system for listening only? Does it worth it from perspective of listening only


Thank you all in advance

 

[audafreak]

@v3kt0r
1. Unfortunately you need the same ASIO interface for input and output to run MA1. But Focusrite Scarlet Solo is relatively cheap. Use it for calibration and then switch back to Mytek.
2. Yes, it is. At least my experience. I also have it only for listening. I have both MA1 and iPad and iPad settings seem too muddy comparing MA1 in my living room.

 

[v3kt0r]

@v3kt0r
1. Unfortunately you need the same ASIO interface for input and output to run MA1. But Focusrite Scarlet Solo is relatively cheap. Use it for calibration and then switch back to Mytek.
2. Yes, it is. At least my experience. I also have it only for listening. I have both MA1 and iPad and iPad settings seem too muddy comparing MA1 in my living room.

Thanks! I'm going to BH today to pickup both

 

[audafreak]

In the last step in MA1, when you can change parametric eq like in ipad, you can switch back to Mytek, start your player with your test recordings and change eq according your taste. There is a checkbox to switch alignment on/off to be able to compare before/after. You can set also your output SPL level here. I have 85dB.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I think you could use the Tascam with an adapter cable from 3.5 to xlr. You only need it for the calibration. Afterwards you can use your other dac. At least i don't know any reason against it. Connection doesnt have to be balanced for calibration.

 

[v3kt0r]

Thank you guys both. I'll get Focusrite Scarlet Solo just in case and will craft an adapter. If it would be same or close with adapter on Tascam then I'll return Focusrite Scarlet Solo.

 

[audafreak]

You can try it immediatelly now. Download MA1 sw, connect Tascam, start MA1, and try to set Tascam soundcard in sw. If it will be possible, then maybe it will work. But question is auto level setting when calibrating if you use lower single ended output instead of higher xlr.
Scarlet is safe way.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

But question is auto level setting when calibrating if you use lower single ended output instead of higher xlr.

AFAIK auto level by the MA1 is for calibration process only. It should not affect the listening volume. If the Tascam works as a 2 ch USB-ASIO-interface (good idea trying it beforehand) i think it should work for calibration. But if the line out has a fixed level perhaps it could be a bit dangerous to listen through it after the calibration process. Because auto level should take care of the sweeps and level the volume down, but after the sweeps it may blast with full volume - i think. If you want to try, perhaps you should reduce the output level setting in the software when you are asked to listen to the calibration results. Something like 60 instead of 100 - just for testing and to be safe, change it back to something higher before saving!

(i used a screenshot by @NickH - hope that´s ok)

 

[v3kt0r]

You can try it immediatelly now. Download MA1 sw, connect Tascam, start MA1, and try to set Tascam soundcard in sw. If it will be possible, then maybe it will work. But question is auto level setting when calibrating if you use lower single ended output instead of higher xlr.
Scarlet is safe way.

Just tried it and it's there. I'll still get Scarlet just to test balanced and compare results to Tascam's unbalanced 3.5 output.

 

[v3kt0r]

AFAIK auto level by the MA1 is for calibration process only. It should not affect the listening volume. If the Tascam works as a 2 ch USB-ASIO-interface (good idea trying it beforehand) i think it should work for calibration. But if the line out has a fixed level perhaps it could be a bit dangerous to listen through it after the calibration process. Because auto level should take care of the sweeps and level the volume down, but after the sweeps it may blast with full volume - i think. If you want to try, perhaps you should reduce the output level setting in the software when you are asked to listen to the calibration results. Something like 60 instead of 100 - just for testing and to be safe, change it back to something higher before saving!

View attachment 143877
(i used a screenshot by @NickH - hope that´s ok)

Yes, Tascam has input and output level control. I already ordered MA1 and Scralet Solo to pickup later today from BH so will be trying both including adapter you've mentioned. I just don't like to have extra devices I won't use so if it works the same as with Scarlet I'll use Tascam which I already have for two years. Thanks for help again!

 

[v3kt0r]

Guys, another quick question before I'll let you go Tascam has two microphone inputs (R and L), can I connect MA1 to any, it doesn't need to be stereo?

Here is info from Tascam website

DR-40X
Inputs and outputs
EXT MIC/LINE IN jacks (XLR connectors can provide phantom power)
ConnectorXLR-3-31 (1: GND, 2: HOT, 3: COLD) (support phantom power)6.3mm (1/4") standard TRS jacks (Tip: HOT, Ring: COLD, Sleeve: GND)
/LINE OUT jack
Connector: 1/8” (3.5mm) stereo mini jack

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Guys, another quick question before I'll let you go Tascam has two microphone inputs (R and L), can I connect MA1 to any, it doesn't need to be stereo?

Here is info from Tascam website

DR-40X
Inputs and outputs
EXT MIC/LINE IN jacks (XLR connectors can provide phantom power)
ConnectorXLR-3-31 (1: GND, 2: HOT, 3: COLD) (support phantom power)6.3mm (1/4") standard TRS jacks (Tip: HOT, Ring: COLD, Sleeve: GND)
/LINE OUT jack
Connector: 1/8” (3.5mm) stereo mini jack

View attachment 143886

Just tried it and it's there. I'll still get Scarlet just to test balanced and compare results to Tascam's unbalanced 3.5 output.

View attachment 143879

You only need one channel for mic input and chose the same one in the software. You only have to figure out which one is "In 1" - i guess Left.

 

[audafreak]

And remember you will calibrate many times in the future for different reasons - new sw versions, changes in room, different speaker positions. So chose interface which makes it better and easier.
And tell us your opinion on sound changes.

 

[richard12511]

AFAIK auto level by the MA1 is for calibration process only. It should not affect the listening volume. If the Tascam works as a 2 ch USB-ASIO-interface (good idea trying it beforehand) i think it should work for calibration. But if the line out has a fixed level perhaps it could be a bit dangerous to listen through it after the calibration process. Because auto level should take care of the sweeps and level the volume down, but after the sweeps it may blast with full volume - i think. If you want to try, perhaps you should reduce the output level setting in the software when you are asked to listen to the calibration results. Something like 60 instead of 100 - just for testing and to be safe, change it back to something higher before saving!

View attachment 143877
(i used a screenshot by @NickH - hope that´s ok)

Does it let you bump up the bass like that for a custom target curve? If so, that's a huge plus over GLM, which forces you to the default flat bass curve. I'm aware that with GLM you can adjust the treble tilt, but that's not the same. Bumping up the bass (to the midpoint between peaks and troughs) is what's needed for neutral sound at 3m+. GLM doesn't allow you to bump the bass in any way.

 

[audafreak]

@richard12511
Yes, it does. After calibration to default target with a bit raised bass you can change default target to your taste with parametric eq. Result is mix of default with phase correction according your room plus additional changes according your PEQ settings. Very nice thing.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Does it let you bump up the bass like that for a custom target curve? If so, that's a huge plus over GLM, which forces you to the default flat bass curve. I'm aware that with GLM you can adjust the treble tilt, but that's not the same. Bumping up the bass (to the midpoint between peaks and troughs) is what's needed for neutral sound at 3m+. GLM doesn't allow you to bump the bass in any way.

This is what the corresponding screen looks like in my room. The orange target curve is the default set for my distance (1.6 m) in my room (based on reverberation i guess). I have always used a more sloped curve in the past, but was never satisfied with the bass. I like it much better this way. No need for me to adjust the target. But it is possible, like @audafreak wrote.

 

[v3kt0r]

Guys, thanks for all your input yesterday. I picked it up last night but ran first test just now, had to wait around noon today, so I do not freak out my neighbors Ran it first time with Tascam and it worked like a charm. As far as a result, there is a real difference in entire spectrum. I noticed less boomness in mid-low, less sub bass, mids are more pronounced and highs are shinier I'd say. It's more consistent/proper, really working well. I'll be trying to run it with Scarlet I got as well just in case and maybe play with mike's and monitors positions a bit. You guys rock! Thanks!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Guys, thanks for all your input yesterday. I picked it up last night but ran first test just now, had to wait around noon today, so I do not freak out my neighbors Ran it first time with Tascam and it worked like a charm. As far as a result, there is a real difference in entire spectrum. I noticed less boomness in mid-low, less sub bass, mids are more pronounced and highs are shinier I'd say. It's more consistent/proper, really working well. I'll be trying to run it with Scarlet I got as well just in case and maybe play with mike's and monitors positions a bit. You guys rock! Thanks!

View attachment 144117

This looks very good! What are your listening distance and room dimensions?

 

[v3kt0r]

This looks very good! What are your listening distance and room dimensions?

Like I mentioned, I use it for listening.... 2.5M or 7-8ft. Pretty close to max for KH120, I think it's 3.5-4M. Room is 8Mx4M with wooden floors, there are some Auralex panels on opposite wall.
My colleague owns KH310s and I've tested them in my room before. I still prefer KH120 with KH750. KH310 sounds a bit relaxed to me. Mids on KH120 more aggressive and that small size is insane. I literally bet one of my friend when demonstrated him how that size of monitor could play, that guy dropped his jaw

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Does it let you bump up the bass like that for a custom target curve? If so, that's a huge plus over GLM, which forces you to the default flat bass curve. I'm aware that with GLM you can adjust the treble tilt, but that's not the same. Bumping up the bass (to the midpoint between peaks and troughs) is what's needed for neutral sound at 3m+. GLM doesn't allow you to bump the bass in any way.

This is what the corresponding screen looks like in my room. The orange target curve is the default set for my distance (1.6 m) in my room (based on reverberation i guess). I have always used a more sloped curve in the past, but was never satisfied with the bass. I like it much better this way. No need for me to adjust the target. But it is possible, like @audafreak wrote.

View attachment 144012

Guys, thanks for all your input yesterday. I picked it up last night but ran first test just now, had to wait around noon today, so I do not freak out my neighbors Ran it first time with Tascam and it worked like a charm. As far as a result, there is a real difference in entire spectrum. I noticed less boomness in mid-low, less sub bass, mids are more pronounced and highs are shinier I'd say. It's more consistent/proper, really working well. I'll be trying to run it with Scarlet I got as well just in case and maybe play with mike's and monitors positions a bit. You guys rock! Thanks!

View attachment 144117

Like I mentioned, I use it for listening.... 2.5M or 7-8ft. Pretty close to max for KH120, I think it's 3.5-4M. Room is 8Mx4M with wooden floors, there are some Auralex panels on opposite wall.
My colleague owns KH310s and I've tested them in my room before. I still prefer KH120 with KH750. KH310 sounds a bit relaxed to me. Mids on KH120 more aggressive and that small size is insane. I literally bet one of my friend when demonstrated him how that size of monitor could play, that guy dropped his jaw

View attachment 144126

Interesting. Your target curve seems to be a bit more sloped than mine - i guess because your LP is 2,5 m while mine is 1.6 m.
Also nice to see how much better a bigger room is (mine is only 3 x 4.7 meters).