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New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

DjBonoBobo

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Thankyou DJBonobobo !

May I ask did you originally set up your 310's with one KH750 then add a second ? If so was there an significant improvement for you ?

best wishes

I only have one yet but am considering buying a second. However, my experience will not help you. My room is much worse than yours.
 

NickH

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Now have received a single KH750 and hope to do MA1 calibration with my existing KH310s at the weekend .

I have wired it in and it has no problem matching the 310's in volume at my listening volumes - range from 70db to 90db . I also had to reduce the gain by 5db on the Kh750 as the 310's were quieter.
The sub integrates well and I can hear that the KH310s are clearer which I put down the 80hz and below frequencies being handled by the sub.

I will post when I have completed MA1 calibration .

i am interested in any views as to doing a Sonarworks measurement and applying their correction in studio One DAW before signal sent to KH750?

thanks

Nick
 

hch

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For those of you with Neumann & MA1 in a home hifi setup, how do you control system volume?
 

DjBonoBobo

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For those of you with Neumann & MA1 in a home hifi setup, how do you control system volume?

RME ADI-2 DAC.
But you can use any preamp, just like with other active speakers. The calibration is stored in the speakers. The only thing you can´t use for volume control when using the MA1 calibration is the Neumann.control iPad-app.
 

audafreak

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For those of you with Neumann & MA1 in a home hifi setup, how do you control system volume?
I calibrated to 80dB SPL and use also RMA ADI-2 DAC but you can use any DAC with output volume control.
Other option is use of some preamp, for temporary use is possible to use also some cheap Chinese passive preamp like this Nobsound NS-05p
Other option is forget MA1 and use ipad Neumann.control where you can set SPL. Not ideal.
Other option is wait for some future MA1 version where hopefully will be some kind of separate SPL setting without recalibration.
 

hch

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RME ADI-2 DAC.
But you can use any preamp, just like with other active speakers. The calibration is stored in the speakers. The only thing you can´t use for volume control when using the MA1 calibration is the Neumann.control iPad-app.
I calibrated to 80dB SPL and use also RMA ADI-2 DAC but you can use any DAC with output volume control.
Other option is use of some preamp, for temporary use is possible to use also some cheap Chinese passive preamp like this Nobsound NS-05p
Other option is forget MA1 and use ipad Neumann.control where you can set SPL. Not ideal.
Other option is wait for some future MA1 version where hopefully will be some kind of separate SPL setting without recalibration.
I see. I guess feeding the kh750 a digital signal and attenuating in MA1 (when/if that becomes possible) would theoretically be the best, but using a dac with a volume control should be good enough.
 

DjBonoBobo

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I see. I guess feeding the kh750 a digital signal and attenuating in MA1 (when/if that becomes possible) would theoretically be the best, but using a dac with a volume control should be good enough.

Yes, should be. You can feed the KH750 a digital signal, but then you need a digital source or interface with digital volume control. At the moment I am thinking of using a RME UCX with an ARC remote in the future, but that is even less "home hifi" than the ADI. I expect no difference in audible sound quality.
 

audafreak

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At the moment I am thinking of using a RME UCX with an ARC remote in the future, but that is even less "home hifi" than the ADI. I expect no difference in audible sound quality.
This can be interesting setup, I was also thinking about something this but it is more money and wired control. I like ADI wireless remote much much more and from time to time I use alse B/T and eq control on remote. Much better for home use. With UCX you are also limited to playback format to PCM 192 I think.
 

DjBonoBobo

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This can be interesting setup, I was also thinking about something this but it is more money and wired control. I like ADI wireless remote much much more and from time to time I use alse B/T and eq control on remote. Much better for home use. With UCX you are also limited to playback format to PCM 192 I think.

I think the ADI 2 Pro has digital outputs, but i don´t know for sure if they can be controlled with the remote.
But like i said i think if it´s only to avoid the DA/AD conversion i don´t think it is necessary or makes an audible difference. I´m thinking about the UCX (2) because i may try it for some multichannel experiments and i don´t need a wireless remote. Also i want a new interface with 48V phantom power anyway. It´s a bit sad that even the ADI 2 Pro is not completely sufficient, because you need an additional interface for the calibration process. Not a big problem though.
 

richard12511

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https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-a#technical-data
and
https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-750-dsp#technical-data

Neumann seems to have a reputation that their data is sincere and reproducible.

There's a few different ways to look at bass behavior in that data, but probably a good start is "bass capability" and one of the plots that shows max SPL at 3% THD. For 3%, it does seem that KH310 can reach a higher SPL. But what's unclear to me is what SPL the KH310 can reach regardless of distortion - the 750 has a plot that does reach much louder at 10% THD.

Probably the main reason to pair 310 and 750 would be to (1) extend bass down to 18 Hz, maybe (2) to reduce distortion of the 310 Woofer above 80 Hz, but likely not to increase SPL.

That just seems so weird to me. Surely a $1,600 subwoofer should demolish any full range speaker, let alone a small sealed speaker with just one 8" driver? Amir noted that he liked the JBL 708p more than the KH310 because of the power/dynamics in the bass, but even the 708p is terrible in comparison to actual subwoofers. We don't have real CEA-2010 data for Neuman subs(afaik), but for $600 less than the KH750 you can get a SVS S3000 sealed sub that gives you 95db @15Hz and 106dB @20Hz with less than 10% distortion. The KH310 can't come anywhere close to that, so it really stuns me that the KH750 is even worse than the KH310.
 

DjBonoBobo

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That just seems so weird to me. Surely a $1,600 subwoofer should demolish any full range speaker, let alone a small sealed speaker with just one 8" driver? Amir noted that he liked the JBL 708p more than the KH310 because of the power/dynamics in the bass, but even the 708p is terrible in comparison to actual subwoofers. We don't have real CEA-2010 data for Neuman subs(afaik), but for $600 less than the KH750 you can get a SVS S3000 sealed sub that gives you 95db @15Hz and 106dB @20Hz with less than 10% distortion. The KH310 can't come anywhere close to that, so it really stuns me that the KH750 is even worse than the KH310.

I don't think the KH750 is a price/performance wonder either, but it does have some unique advantages for Neumann speaker owners. It also does some things better than the SVS, such as linear frequency response up to 700 Hz. I don't know who needs that, but you can tell from the fact that the two products were designed differently. Probably the SVS is the better deal for many, but that doesn't mean the KH750 is useless.
As for the addition of the KH310, @shawnsingh had already written everything: KH750 is only a little worse in the 50-100Hz-area than the KH310, but reaches down to 18 Hz instead of 34.

1624524808137.png

Source: Sound & Recording, https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/9395/download

1624524838038.png

Source: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...b-2000-pro-vs-sb-3000-subwoofer-review.21428/
 

Frgirard

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The efficiency of a little sealed sub is weak. It's the case of the kh750. This sub is a nearfield use coupled with the kh80 or 120.
18 hz, your hear at 120 dB? I owend kh810 with k+h o300. The extention to the low end was used to decrease the GD.
 

NickH

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Now have received a single KH750 and hope to do MA1 calibration with my existing KH310s at the weekend .

I have wired it in and it has no problem matching the 310's in volume at my listening volumes - range from 70db to 90db . I also had to reduce the gain by 5db on the Kh750 as the 310's were quieter.
The sub integrates well and I can hear that the KH310s are clearer which I put down the 80hz and below frequencies being handled by the sub.

I will post when I have completed MA1 calibration .

i am interested in any views as to doing a Sonarworks measurement and applying their correction in studio One DAW before signal sent to KH750?

thanks

Nick

Update- I have now carried out MA1 installation and the overall system has more punch ,better imaging and the sub is well integrated - a definite improvement .There is plenty of overall power for my 6m x 3m treated room . 95db no prop and very clear.

The MA1 software had no glitches and was straightforward.

The system is balanced sonically with defined bass - I am doing classic rock and pop rather than dance /edm .

I am very happy and do not need the second KH750 I was thinking of.

I have attached my MA1 measurements together with my previous Sonarworks - they seem consistent and were from the same listening position .The MA1 has picked up a trough /dip of 12db compared to 6db on Sonarworks for what I think is a similar frequency. I would be interested in anty comments on this ?

also looks like it is a low end null ?

thanks and best wishes
Nick
 

Attachments

  • sonarworks measurement.PNG
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  • MA1.jpg
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DjBonoBobo

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The MA1 has picked up a trough /dip of 12db compared to 6db on Sonarworks for what I think is a similar frequency. I would be interested in anty comments on this ?

Different smoothing maybe? Or maybe the position of the sub is worse in your room for that frequency than the position of the KH310?
 

NickH

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Thanks - I will change the sub position and remeasure over the weekend just out of curiosity

best wishes
 

badboygolf16v

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I've got a KH80/KH805 system and I'm considering replacing the KH805 with two KH750s so I can use the MA1 room correction kit.
I thought I'd see if the MA1 software works OK with my audio interface, an EMU 0404 USB, on my Windows 10 laptop.
When I run the MA1 wizard the EMU ASIO driver shows but the input and output dropdowns are unpopulated.
I can see and use the EMU ASIO inputs and outputs OK in Ableton.
I guess I could use ASIO4ALL, would there be any drawbacks?
I'm not very experienced with audio interfaces and ASIO.
I wondered if anyone had any suggestions?
I appreciate the EMU is a bit long in the tooth but if I can avoid buying a new interface that would be great.
 

audafreak

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When I run the MA1 wizard the EMU ASIO driver shows but the input and output dropdowns are unpopulated.
I can see and use the EMU ASIO inputs and outputs OK in Ableton.
Maybe it is because of very old driver (10 years) and MA1 is checking something what this driver does not have. Device is present but lower functionality.
Asio4all - hard to say. Try.
MA1 is not very standard application so compatibility with old sw may not be perfect. I use relatively cheap Focusrite Scarlett 212 3rd gen just for measurement. Or even cheaper Solo.
 
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