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New Neumann KH 310 II and KH 350 Rumors: Leaked Pricing & Info

In general, when the limiter kicks in heavily depends on content. Case in point, in that video the light of the limiter only starts flashing when the deep bass hits with full force, about 40 seconds into the original song (as found here):
View attachment 561462
That's because lower frequencies need more excursion for the same SPL. Everything else being the same, excursion scales with 1/f^2, e.g. 35Hz needs 4x excursion of 70Hz for the same SPL - a huge difference.
Also, according to the comments below that video, only the ATC were playing at a "medium level", the Neumann were playing significantly louder:
View attachment 561485
:facepalm:

Actually I think he’s saying they were around the same volume in the room. You might be mistaken in your reading of his post!


You can hear significant amounts of IM distortion from the Neumann on the bass heavy track…
 
Actually I think he’s saying they were around the same volume in the room. You might be mistaken in your reading of his post!


You can hear significant amounts of IM distortion from the Neumann on the bass heavy track…

I would be surprised if the settings on the back panel of the ATC SCM25 (the Input Sensitivity and the Bass Boost) were tweaked (because it's a pretty fiddly operation with those 2 small holes) but I'm pretty sure he messed up the settings on the back panel of the KH310:
- Where did he set the output gain between 94-114dB SPL?
- What was the Input Gain 0, -1.5...-15dB?
- Were the EQs set to zero or something else?
We just don't know.
In the video he says the volume level in the room was medium. "Not quiet but not blasting loud" were his exact words. Seeing his room size/setup/treatment/mic placement-listening distance in the video, I would estimate that means something well below 92dB SPL at the mic/mixing position. And let's face it, 92dB in a room as small as his already feels plenty loud. One wouldn't describe it as "medium" unless being totally deaf.
With the proper settings that level, at that distance is just well within "comfortable" for a non faulty KH310. For this reason I just don't see any other reason for the distortion and limiter kicking in than him using some messed up/silly settings on the back panel (or in his signal chain on his computer).
 
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now on some questions regarding the speaker itself rather then comparison with ATC. what is the SPL toggle on the back used for? also i see it can be adjusted via the MA-1 software as well? how loud they can play or? also - whats reasonable input/output setting there? or should i leave that to MA1?
 
I wonder whether they improved the KH310 distortion below 80Hz, as this was the main limiting factor (for me) when I measured them against my DIY speakers.
Here at 92dB @2.2m <-> 99dB @1m
1790684568080.png
 
I wonder whether they improved the KH310 distortion below 80Hz, as this was the main limiting factor (for me) when I measured them against my DIY speakers.
Here at 92dB @2.2m <-> 99dB @1m
View attachment 561688

I would like to know how low the SPL must be set for this loudspeaker to prevent the distortion from rising that high in the bass frequencies. How is the distortion at 86 dB at 1 meter?

EDIT: Just remembered I can just check the measurements made by Amir for this. :)
 
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I came across this video. Interesting take on the Genelec midrange here. Is there any science that backs up such a claim that one’s physiology can actually play a significant impact on one’s speaker choice? There is a huge emphasis on thd, directivity, etc and the speaker design - but is there any science that backs up the claim that everyone’s hearing perception is fundamentally different and therefore an asset for one is another’s liability? If anyone could post any literature on the matter (if there is any), that would be fantastic. Here’s the video:
 
I came across this video. Interesting take on the Genelec midrange here. Is there any science that backs up such a claim that one’s physiology can actually play a significant impact on one’s speaker choice? There is a huge emphasis on thd, directivity, etc and the speaker design - but is there any science that backs up the claim that everyone’s hearing perception is fundamentally different and therefore an asset for one is another’s liability? If anyone could post any literature on the matter (if there is any), that would be fantastic. Here’s the video:

He would hear the real acoustic music and vocals with the same coloration as he would any speaker.
 
I came across this video. Interesting take on the Genelec midrange here. Is there any science that backs up such a claim that one’s physiology can actually play a significant impact on one’s speaker choice? There is a huge emphasis on thd, directivity, etc and the speaker design - but is there any science that backs up the claim that everyone’s hearing perception is fundamentally different and therefore an asset for one is another’s liability? If anyone could post any literature on the matter (if there is any), that would be fantastic. Here’s the video:
It just underlines his lack of the most basic logic
 
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but is there any science that backs up the claim that everyone’s hearing perception is fundamentally different and therefore an asset for one is another’s liability
This is the kind of question that seems complicated and fraught with paradoxes but is actually simple. The answer like others have said is no, but to address why takes a little more explanation.

Human perception evolved to help us understand our environment. The goals for hearing are to distinguish direction, disambiguate one sound vs. another and pick out important sounds in difficult situations, and furthermore to do all of that both automatically and at will (hearing is an active, not a passive sense). Those are the biological fundamentals consistent between people.

Differences in perception between people in psychovisual studies are termed observer metamerism. I bring it up here because these differences are measurable and account for minor variations in color perception in the general population or severe variations in those that are, for example, significantly color blind or who have macular degeneration. Hearing follows the same pattern, with minor, measured variations in perceived subjective loudness and sharper variations for those with certain types of conditions, like advanced presbycusis or Meniere's disease.

The general problem this concerns is that of personalization.

We know because of the way that headphones couple to ears that personalization is necessary for a subjective sense of realism with binaurally-rendered spatial audio formats, where the goal is physically accurate reproduction of sound pressure at the ears. Recent work by Sean Olive suggests that for stereo content (i.e., a lower standard of accuracy) personalization can be effectively limited to bass/treble controls when starting with a good baseline target.

For speakers, spatial audio (immersive audio is the commercial term) like ambisonics or wavefield synthesis aims at physically accurate reproduction of a defined soundfield. The requirements for speakers and rooms are flat response and anechoic or near-anechoic conditions because the system is meant to provide all auditory information, including reverberance. As such the speaker has a more background role: the job is not to have any sort of sound at all and to be a pure reproducer. It's telling that the speakers I've seen most often used in ambisonic settings are Genelec coaxials, which have more or less constant directivity across the listening window and a short integration distance.

For normal content relying on phantom centers, like 2-channel, 5.1, etc., the speaker and room have a more primary role in perception. However, while the same general principles apply for speaker design, the relative importance of off-axis sound increases because it interacts with room boundaries. Toole and Olive's work, building on that of others, has helped establish this.

So let's summarize: for very well-designed speakers, when listening to typical formats in nonanechoic settings, differences in individual perception, room interaction and speaker radiation are handled by using simple EQ tilts. If we are being serious we would acknowledge that any speakers falling into this category have minor rather than major differences between them (all of which are measurable) and can be used both for pleasure and critical listening.

Major, personal perceptual difficulties/differences require individual medical intervention. Hearing aids and cochlear implants, for example. Not different speakers.

Edit: Typos.
 
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The KH350 would be a no brainer for me if I wanted to build out a surround set, re-using my KH310's as surrounds.

The fact that someone could recommend their speakers 10+ years ago and Neumann still supports the old models through their DSP subwoofers is amazing.
Of course the Genelec The Ones series is also worth looking at if you are not yet in this ecosystem.

Very exciting to see all these designs!
-Ype
Depending on your listening distance a bunch of KH120ii would be easily enough as surround and ATMOS speakers. You need at least 8 of them ... this gets pricey quickly.
 
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size/output/extension of KH350 seems like a really compelling package for a small to medium room setup. I have kh150s and 2 small subs in my listening area, which I am happy with, but I think I would go 350 without subs if I had to do a do-over just for simplicity. I assume the will measure great being Neumann and especially 3 way.
 
size/output/extension of KH350 seems like a really compelling package for a small to medium room setup. I have kh150s and 2 small subs in my listening area, which I am happy with, but I think I would go 350 without subs if I had to do a do-over just for simplicity. I assume the will measure great being Neumann and especially 3 way.
whats your room size for your current setup? also, which subs are you running?
 
When they came out, they cost €1,699 per unit, not €2,000. Adjusting for inflation between mid-2013 and mid-2026, they should retail around €2,266. Yet, according to the Dutch website leak, the new version will go for €3,175... WOW. That is a massive 40% price hike.

Even if they are actually a €3k speaker, that jump is just crazy. All the competition (Genelec, Focal, Dynaudio, PSI, etc.) have their equivalent pro models sitting right between €2,100 and €2,600. Literally, ATC SCM 20 (who are the Top of the Line) are 2800 per speaker.

For audio professionals like me who work in small to mid-sized studios and were looking to upgrade our monitors to something siliar to KH 310 mk I , the new version is just way out of reach. We all know the KH 310 Mk1s are getting old&dated and have their limitations, so a lot of us will probably end up jumping ship to other brands.

If these prices are confirmed, it's an absolute joke. But if they land between 2,000 and 2,500 max, they’re going to crush it.
The ATC SCM 20 is top of the line? Compared to what? Can you please provide proof?

The 310 ii is DSP-enabled, unlike the 1st gen. Neumann improved the KH 120 ii over the first gen, so it’s plausible they will have done so here also, one the effective top-of-the-line speaker in terms of commonness in studios vs the 420 (now 350).

When you compare the KH 80 to Genelec, the former is far greater in value, if you ask me. Especially if you can get a sale, the KH 80 may be one of the best-value speakers ever. I got each of mine for 50% off!

The KH 310 is not outdated. It’s an awesome speaker still and will be a contender for years to come.
 
whats your room size for your current setup? also, which subs are you running?
Room is around 16 x 18 ('merican ft) I think. Arendhal s1 subs or whatever their smallest sealed subs are called. Listening distance ~ 10 ft. Crossover & bass management by MiniDsp SHD. Overall very happy with the setup and plenty of output. Wonder if KH350 would be much of an improvement, there is some appeal to a simpler setup though.
 
Hi,
I still have the Klein+Hummel O 300 with a O 800 subwoofer. Would the KH O310 II be a real upgrade in your opinion?
Or maybe an alternative recommandation..?
Thanks
 
Hi,
I still have the Klein+Hummel O 300 with a O 800 subwoofer. Would the KH O310 II be a real upgrade in your opinion?
Or maybe an alternative recommandation..?
Thanks
The KH310 II has massively more low end SPL capabilities than the O300, even with sub.
 
Hi,
I still have the Klein+Hummel O 300 with a O 800 subwoofer. Would the KH O310 II be a real upgrade in your opinion?
Or maybe an alternative recommandation..?
Thanks
The KH310 II has massively more low end SPL capabilities than the O300, even with sub.
Well, let's look at the data: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/27221478/o-300-active-near-field-monitor-new-klein-hummel

Directivity looks a lot smoother.

96dB SPL THD is probably incorrect:
1791074155917.jpeg



Max SPL (3% THD) has improved a lot.
1791074181161.jpeg
 
Switching to the in house dome mid from the dynaudio D76af they were using before made a big difference. Big woofer improvement too from 300 to 310.
Did not know they used a third-party dome previously. Measurements here: https://hifi-selbstbau.de/index.php/component/content/article/dynaudio-d-76af?Itemid=112&catid=15

I would very much like to speak with someone from K&H who could describe the reasons why they joined Neumann & Sennheiser, particularly from the engineering side. There must have been serious discussions about what the acquisition would mean for the quality of speakers before everyone shook hands and agreed.
 
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