I don’t see how else.Strange thing is that the amps are electrically rated way lower:
The wait is over: Genelec 8381A point source main monitor has arrived
I'm sure they sound very good. Now, I read somewhere weight and measures: these monitors are gigantic: you have to explain to me where I should put them. I'd spend 70k to get this same performance, but loudspeakers have to be the size of a shoebox Very funny ;)
So capacitance takes care of the peaks?
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New mysterious Genelec monitors
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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dedobot
Active Member
I'm imagining something (stupid) like a left channel through each speaker from front to back, same for the right channel . The ceiling in mono. More SPL to FR and FL speakers less for the rest.
I see. You mean to create a home made upmixer?
The one I have some familiarity with is old school matrixing. Which is basically what the original Dolby surround and Pro Logic did.
It wouldn’t hurt to acquire some old Dolby pro logic unit for experimentation.
I’ve seen them as low as $50 at used audio stores. Which I suppose don’t exist anymore. I hope decibel audio in Chicago still exists. I picked up some cool good oldies there.
Then I would send that “rear” signal to all those extra speaker positions and also play with their positions.
It’s worth experimenting with.
Also you can do matrixing for free by just playing with the wiring. There are diagrams out there for that. Just do it at the low level before the amps to be safe.
Basically what you are doing is separating what is common between left and right and and what is different.
So that common signal could be better than mono on the ceiling. The difference signal can be placed anywhere all over to provide ambience.
Pretty much you end up with L R sum and difference signals. Which you can place as you see fit.
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ernestcarl
Major Contributor
About the phase shuffler... there's an extensive thread that covers the topic at diyAudio here:
Fixing the Stereo Phantom Center
Stereo is a marvelous illusion. Done right, it works remarkably well. The illusion of sounds coming from the center is an important part of stereo, but one that causes many arguments. With good speakers and a good room, it can be very convincing. But it isn't perfect. One thing that has...
It just enhances the phantom center at playback if one doesn't have a center channel speaker to begin with.
For those who already use FIR convolution, two simple presets can be applied additionally to (only) the left and right channels:
To improve matching of voicing individually between left, right and phantom center even further, we can also apply EQ to the center mix exclusively -- or all channels -- well, whatever subjectively works/sounds best.
"Dullness" of the phantom center voicing (in contrast to the left and right mains) is much more evident in rooms where a lot of acoustic absorption is applied -- i.e. very dry rooms.
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As to stereo upmixing into multichannel, it's briefly discussed in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/acoustics-service-at-kvålsvoll-design.42899/post-1587149
Same as it’s played with just two speakers.
A lot to read. I suspected this was related to to problem Bacch-SP tries to solve.About the phase shuffler... there's an extensive thread that covers the topic at diyAudio here:
Fixing the Stereo Phantom Center
Stereo is a marvelous illusion. Done right, it works remarkably well. The illusion of sounds coming from the center is an important part of stereo, but one that causes many arguments. With good speakers and a good room, it can be very convincing. But it isn't perfect. One thing that has...www.diyaudio.com
It just enhances the phantom center at playback if one doesn't have a center channel speaker to begin with.
For those who already use FIR convolution, two simple presets can be applied additionally to (only) the left and right channels:
View attachment 286400
To improve matching of voicing individually between left, right and phantom center even further, we can also apply EQ to the center mix exclusively -- or all channels -- well, whatever subjectively works/sounds best.
"Dullness" of the phantom center voicing (in contrast to the left and right mains) is much more evident in rooms where a lot of acoustic absorption is applied -- i.e. very dry rooms.
--------
As to stereo upmixing into multichannel, it's briefly discussed in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/acoustics-service-at-kvålsvoll-design.42899/post-1587149
Basically that we have a nose that blocks some beneficial crosstalk at 700Hz+
I need to read up on it again. I remember one of the “solutions” was to place a baffle between left and right ears. I’m confused about why that works. Maybe it blocks cancellations due to the nose?
Anyway I tried it once by placing a thick bass absorber in front my nose. I didn’t notice much difference.
However I have coaxials aimed pretty much at my nose so maybe that helps.
I too have a very dry room and I made it that way with a lot of bass panels. I like it.
I’ll try this again and see if I notice any timbral differences as that signal travels left to right.
ernestcarl
Major Contributor
I dunno... placement and angling of the speakers probably also contributes to the "severity" of the dulling/darkening effect on (phantom centered) dialogue/vocals.
According to F. Toole:
"Anyone claiming that a phantom center image is superior to a real center loudspeaker has some persuading to do. The phantom-image situation is significantly muddled, and most listening situations are not perfectly symmetrical. As we will see later, eliminating all of the reflections does not solve the fundamental problem with the phantom center; in fact it makes it worse."
To test for voicing changes, I extract and isolate vocal only recordings and re-route or solo them while quckly alternating (via switching presets) between left, right and phantom center repeatedly. At least in two of my setups (coaxials and traditional two-ways), the timbral difference between phantom and mains is rather obvious.
I’ll give it a try. I’ve done some rudimentary testing and didn’t find anything alarming.
I can mono via both (phantom) or one speaker but i have to turn my head to hear the real mono signal.
I almost don’t want to know about this problem. Keep my head in the sand. But I’ll check.
Auromatic is the best at this sort of upmix, and mono audio (1950's movies) sound amazing through 7.1.4 Auromatic upmix
What is AURO-3D®? An In-Depth Exploration - Yamaha Music - Blog
Here's a deep dive into AURO-3D® -- a new three-dimensional audio technology that immerses the home theater listener in a hemisphere of sound.
hub.yamaha.com
Would this be the easiest and cheapest way to try?
OP
Pearljam5000
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The fact that they have 5 midrange drivers
Does it mean the sound will be midrange heavy ?or the mids would be too forward like ATC?
Does it mean the sound will be midrange heavy ?or the mids would be too forward like ATC?
All I have to say is that this forum would be boring without you.The fact that they have 5 midrange drivers
Does it mean the sound will be midrange heavy ?or the mids would be too forward like ATC?
OP
Pearljam5000
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I'll take it as a complimentAll I have to say is that this forum would be boring without you.
Sokel
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Instead of trying to find questions just post "say something,I need my fix".The fact that they have 5 midrange drivers
Does it mean the sound will be midrange heavy ?or the mids would be too forward like ATC?
We will understand.
OP
Pearljam5000
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Lol
No
But that's not the case
I'm just not ashamed to ask stuff that could sound stupid
because that's the only way to learn
dedobot
Active Member
I was thinking of lot more simple processing. Stereo/mono channels redirection to certain speakers with SPL correction and may be a pan corrections . No content rendering. , no 3D sound field. Avid ..I had to deal at daily basis with the Media Composer stations at the IT support role. it's everything but easy and cheap.What is AURO-3D®? An In-Depth Exploration - Yamaha Music - Blog
Here's a deep dive into AURO-3D® -- a new three-dimensional audio technology that immerses the home theater listener in a hemisphere of sound.
Would this be the easiest and cheapest way to try?
My question was dull and derailing the thread, please excuse me.
When are you going to learn?
OP
Pearljam5000
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It's a process
The fact that they have 5 midrange drivers
Does it mean the sound will be midrange heavy ?or the mids would be too forward like ATC?
I found it interesting that those four domes apparently cover 150/250-500 Hz (the low crossover frequency is variable) so really mid/upper-bass to lower midrange (the way I usually think about it at least). In other words, a lower range than I expected.
The fact that they have 5 midrange drivers
Does it mean the sound will be midrange heavy ?or the mids would be too forward like ATC?
Most ATC speakers are not "midrange heavy", just the old version of SCM19 that Amir did measure a while ago. That one is the odd one out, don't spread a myth created by some members at this forum.
