New mysterious Genelec monitors

[574stereo]

Vifa D27 ... every ScanSpeak was better at that time. What Seas do they use now? How much was the D27 - €50,- or less? It's "successor" tweeter at peerless is now €40,- (but don't know how they compare) and it looks like they use them with the old faceplate? https://atc.audio/professional/loudspeakers/scm50a-pro/
These are not bad tweeters but compared to what we use now - entry level. And even then far from top notch, I always wondered why they didn't care more cause the rest of the chassis is really world class, even after all these years.


Seriously?
The 3" is about 4dB down already at 30° at the crossover frequency. A 1" doesn't beam at all at that frequency.
There are very little measurements of these speakers around ... why?

ATC-SM75-150

http://zaphaudio.com/temp/ATC-SM75-150S-offaxis-0-15-30-45-60.gif

So no, dispersion is absolutely not matched. You would at least need a waveguide for the tweeter and to call the rounded edges of the ATC a waveguide ... is marketing.


How much is this, 10mm radius? That's not working with such a wide baffle. I used 25mm for my first design with a 12" lf driver and bought a 34mm router cause it was not good enough, you still see edge effects.

Don't get me wrong - these are great sounding speakers and give an amount of SPL which you only achieve with a 3" midrange dome and is stunning for big rooms and as main monitors! PMC and ATC got me in the midrange dome wagon and what for e.g. the big PMCs did in a huge room at AES recording competition presentations is incredible.

But to tell that ATC is INNOVATIVE with building the same speaker for 40 years ... simply no.
And they could do better in 2025, add a top notch tweeter with a small waveguide to match or shift the crossover frequency lower (that's what I do in my designs) to achieve a wide radiation speaker.

And ALL speakers from PMC and ATC I heard without the midrange dome ... aren't worth their money (but I don't know all of them, maybe bad luck in selection).

They've not been using the Seas driver for about 10 years now...

How is calling the edges of the waveguide only marketing? Do you mean a horn? I'm sorry to be oblivious to this here but maybe there's something which wasn't covered in my acoustics degree & postgraduate.

I've not made any claims about ATC being innovative, that's something you've bought to the table. The basic design hasn't changed for a long time but many improvements have been made to the motor structures, diaphragm geometry, crossovers, amplification, completely different tweeters, port flaring etc.. You can't also say they 'haven't changed'... my new 50s were a staggering improvement over my old 100s (which had been refurbished). Next to my Neumann 310s the voicing is pretty similar.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Another photo from Genelec press release.

 

[dedobot]

View attachment 449630

Another photo from Genelec press release.

Still no grills ! Excuse my arrogance but naked big woofers are not the best living room decoration .

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Still no grills ! Excuse my arrogance but naked big woofers are not the best living room decoration .

I could get used to them. Might take 2 or 3 songs, but it would happen.

 

[IamJF]

How is calling the edges of the waveguide only marketing?

In which frequency range plays the midrange? What's the wavelengths? What dimension has the "waveguide".
This was for sure covered at university ... at least we did
Or just look at some measurements of this driver ... no waveguide effect to detect.

Back to topic - this Genelec does proper controlling of off axis radiation down to low frequencies. It needs a huge waveguide and the help of additional filler drivers to achieve this and really is a fascinating design with for sure plenty of R&D involved. The whole Ones series is outstanding engineering, big respect to Genelec for these!

 

[Leporello]

Still no grills ! Excuse my arrogance but naked big woofers are not the best living room decoration .

What could be better?!

 

[poopy]

Still no grills ! Excuse my arrogance but naked big woofers are not the best living room decoration .

Usually subs are sold without grill so people should be used to 'naked' big woofers

 

[boXem]

Thanks

So, I went on a mission for you, result is that I have nothing to say, be it positive or negative: soft jazz, not loud, so not stressful at all for a speaker. Guy was on big discussion with a distributor, so I didn't disturb him to get more fun. Sorry...
Only thing I am sure about is that they are less ugly than on picture, but still ugly.

 

[Pearljam5000]

So, I went on a mission for you, result is that I have nothing to say, be it positive or negative: soft jazz, not loud, so not stressful at all for a speaker. Guy was on big discussion with a distributor, so I didn't disturb him to get more fun. Sorry...
Only thing I am sure about is that they are less ugly than on picture, but still ugly.

Many thanks for the efforts
Really appreciate it

 

[DSJR]

So, I went on a mission for you, result is that I have nothing to say, be it positive or negative: soft jazz, not loud, so not stressful at all for a speaker. Guy was on big discussion with a distributor, so I didn't disturb him to get more fun. Sorry...
Only thing I am sure about is that they are less ugly than on picture, but still ugly.

I'd have honestly thought that a show (domestic audio mainly?) would have been the place to blow people's socks off Soft jazz my backside

 

[Purité Audio]

If it’s too loud the staff can’t hear themselves chat.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

I think you can ask them to play any song you like
If I had just one
I'd choose this one as a test track :

 

[boXem]

As I said, today and tomorrow are the industry days, demonstrators are usually open to fun but when I see them discussing business, I don't disturb them with my non-business requests.
Additionally, at Munich, there are clearly two schools of thought: business first where demo room includes a discussion space and a relatively small demo space (Genelec but not only them) or demo first with almost no space for discussion (Kii but not only them).

 

[DSJR]

Not a 'HiFi' recording, but this one blew me into the back wall when played LOUD on big ATC 200As I remember, sending the sales manager scuttling from the room while we indulged ourselves -

 

[dfuller]

Vifa D27 ... every ScanSpeak was better at that time. What Seas do they use now? How much was the D27 - €50,- or less? It's "successor" tweeter at peerless is now €40,- (but don't know how they compare) and it looks like they use them with the old faceplate? https://atc.audio/professional/loudspeakers/scm50a-pro/
These are not bad tweeters but compared to what we use now - entry level. And even then far from top notch, I always wondered why they didn't care more cause the rest of the chassis is really world class, even after all these years.


Seriously?
The 3" is about 4dB down already at 30° at the crossover frequency. A 1" doesn't beam at all at that frequency.
There are very little measurements of these speakers around ... why?

ATC-SM75-150

http://zaphaudio.com/temp/ATC-SM75-150S-offaxis-0-15-30-45-60.gif

So no, dispersion is absolutely not matched. You would at least need a waveguide for the tweeter and to call the rounded edges of the ATC a waveguide ... is marketing.


How much is this, 10mm radius? That's not working with such a wide baffle. I used 25mm for my first design with a 12" lf driver and bought a 34mm router cause it was not good enough, you still see edge effects.

Don't get me wrong - these are great sounding speakers and give an amount of SPL which you only achieve with a 3" midrange dome and is stunning for big rooms and as main monitors! PMC and ATC got me in the midrange dome wagon and what for e.g. the big PMCs did in a huge room at AES recording competition presentations is incredible.

But to tell that ATC is INNOVATIVE with building the same speaker for 40 years ... simply no.
And they could do better in 2025, add a top notch tweeter with a small waveguide to match or shift the crossover frequency lower (that's what I do in my designs) to achieve a wide radiation speaker.

And ALL speakers from PMC and ATC I heard without the midrange dome ... aren't worth their money (but I don't know all of them, maybe bad luck in selection).

To be clear, ATC was using the SEAS T25CF001 before they moved to their own, which certainly is a nice tweeter and it definitely is not a cheap part ($172 per in small quantities atm)

 

[Neadych]

I never said they were cheap
I would never be able to afford them anyways

The 8381 will have a noticeable advantage over other high-quality speakers only at long distances.
Where less powerful systems will not be able to provide direct sound.
In other cases, the difference in quality can be leveled out with lower quality and, importantly, much cheaper speakers and subwoofers.