New mysterious Genelec monitors

[Pearljam5000]

Which inferior speakers for 73,000 euros each are you thinking of?

View attachment 448750

Audiophile speakers are sold in pairs so it's impossible to answer

 

[Sokel]

I wouldn’t say these are ‘high end’ which I associate with highly expensive but poor performance the Gens are genuinely fine measuring speakers with good SPL capability.
I have asked about the possibility of getting a pair here but I doubt it will happen, is there even a pair in the UK?
Keith

Keith, what do you think of gear like a monos Halcro Eclipse for example?

 

[Audionaut]

Audiophile speakers are sold in pairs so it's impossible to answer

Yes, sure
Well, anyone who thinks that over 35,000 euros is a bargain for this speaker is probably in the genelec fan club.
Then I won't disturb the fanboys any further while they admire this cheap gem.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Yes, sure
Well, anyone who thinks that over 35,000 euros is a bargain for this speaker is probably in the genelec fan club.
Then I won't disturb the fanboys any further while they admire this cheap gem.

I never said they were cheap
I would never be able to afford them anyways

 

[Purité Audio]

Keith, what do you think of gear like a monos Halcro Eclipse for example?

They measure well I believe, but they won’t sound any better than a similarly well engineered amp, but the 8341 will play loudly and with real bass extension and that still costs.
Keith

 

[Mort]

What's the application? A high end music performance space?

I'm a Genelec monitor fan, but I am not the audience for the big speakers.

 

[新しい人]

I listened to the 8381 at its launch event in China two years ago and thought it was great, but for home use, I think the 8351 or 8361 with the W371A would be better.

 

[IamJF]

Too bad these cost so much. When I was younger I thought “when I grow up I will have a high end set with all the bells and whistles”, but now I’m past 50 and I still can’t afford the “high end”.

What do you need/want from your high end setup?
There are great and affordable speakers out there nowadays. Depends of what extra bells and whistles defines High End for you.

 

[Pearljam5000]

What do you need/want from your high end setup?
There are great and affordable speakers out there nowadays. Depends of what extra bells and whistles defines High End for you.

There's high end and there's high end
Unfortunately the last 2% cost a lot

 

[DSJR]

Audiophile speakers are sold in pairs so it's impossible to answer

Up at this level, it's 'audiophool' speakers, almost all passive, so dealers can sell all manner of inappropriate amplification and mega-profit cabling with them as long as it's expensive I mean, the passive and ice-cold sounding Dynaudio Confidence 60 plus audiophile-suitable amp (Naim probably in the UK) would cost much the same as these Genelecs I reckon -

Dynaudio Confidence 60 | Acoustica

For big, bold, and stylish floor-standing loudspeakers that excel in sound quality, choose the Dynaudio Confidence 60. Call Acoustica today on 01244 344 227.

acoustica.co.uk

You know I still carry a torch for ATC and would own 100As again like a shot if I had the room and funds to accommodate them, but their hideous looking domestic-issue 200 and 300 towers (in very fancy veneers though) and the almost as hideous (and with discrete active crossovers?) SE versions of the single bass driver models, are in the home market, costing pretty near as much as these Genelecs these days - and we all know the dated 1990s vibe these ATCs now have - nothing that new to refine them further since the tweeter update a good while ago now.

ATC SCM 300 ASLT Active Loudspeakers

ATC SCM 300 ASLT Tower, 3-Way Ultra High-End Active Loudspeakers. [Price per Pair]

e-shop.highendstudios.de

I mean, really? Two fifteen inch bass drivers stacked, mid and top domes set way over a seated listener's head with no real 'steering' as this Genelec offers and made for the oligarch and far eastern domestic market I suspect, now the plain black Soffit studio version with side-by-side bass drivers at £45k or so arguably aren't as popular now as it was in my day. By domestic standards, stupendous sound power, but I have to admit, things have moved on now since the noughties...

Best duck back under my rock again I want to weep at the futility of it all these days

 

[Purité Audio]

ATC aren’t alone in continuing to manufacture the very same legacy designs,
a, they still sell so why change
b, their customer demographic believes in the ‘all DSP’ is evil premise, why alienate your existing clientele
c, bringing out a full range contemporary design makes three quarters of your current range redundant.
d, no will or the necessary expertise to develop a contemporary design.
Keith

 

[574stereo]

I own active 50s and use DSP. ATC themselves use DSP and regularly do installs with DSP.


Why do you think the speakers would benefit from having the DSP built in? A LR12 slope is the same whether you implement in DSP or analog.


Can you provide this evidence they don't have the expertise? Their R&D department is made up of people who studied at Saltford alongside the designers of the Neumann monitors, KEF etc. It's the place in the UK. I think there are some very strong links with Genelec as well.


I've seen you make these quite bold negative statements about these speakers many times. Would be great if you could actually back it up with some information...

 

[IamJF]

R&D ... they build the same speakers since how long now? Different colours and a HiFi implementation.
The midrange is of course GREAT. The tweeter ... was entry level, not sure about the current model. Off axis performance? Waveguides to control it? Hard edges with diffraction cause they don't want to mess with the 70s look?

I'm sorry but R&D is something different. Where is ANY innovation?

These are still really good speakers and they didn't want to mess with their loyal customers - like Gibson. But both companies could do more.

 

[DSJR]

I didn't mean to start ASR ATC bashing all over again. Pros seem to like the 25s and maybe 45s too, but larger ones do appear in classic form on the domestic market it seems. I'm sure their prime designer knows his stuff, but whether he's allowed to develop the brand I don't know. Latest models seem to be the fugly 50se and finally and thirty years too late, the classic veneer finish 20ASL.

What I'd love to see is Genelec represented better domestically, but maybe they're selling all they can make as they are - in 120 or so colours according to their news letters I enjoy receiving

 

[PristineSound]

Gloss Piano version

New Genelec Piano Black 8381 Speakers Global Debut – M & S | Ultimate High-Fidelity

www.monoandstereo.com

 

[Pearljam5000]

Gloss Piano version

New Genelec Piano Black 8381 Speakers Global Debut – M & S | Ultimate High-Fidelity

www.monoandstereo.com

Does it have less diffraction than the regular model?

 

[PristineSound]

Does it have less diffraction than the regular model?

It may diffract light a bit more

 

[574stereo]

R&D ... they build the same speakers since how long now? Different colours and a HiFi implementation.
The midrange is of course GREAT. The tweeter ... was entry level, not sure about the current model. Off axis performance? Waveguides to control it? Hard edges with diffraction cause they don't want to mess with the 70s look?

I'm sorry but R&D is something different. Where is ANY innovation?

These are still really good speakers and they didn't want to mess with their loyal customers - like Gibson. But both companies could do more.

The SEAS tweeter was not entry level, neither was the Vifa D27 back in the day (25+ years ago). I had 100As upgraded with the SEAS before the current 50ASLs with the in-house tweeter and it’s an improvement for sure. Not sure how you can say any of those drivers are entry level.

Waveguides? The mid driver has a waveguide… dispersion between the mid-dome and tweeter is well matched in all of the three ways… how would you like them to improve this with a waveguide.

Rounded edges on my 50ASLs, just like the 100As before them. Rounded edges on the consumer versions as long as the grilles are in place (the diffraction contouring is part of the frame). They’re designed to be used with the grilles on, although I’ve listened to some of the consumer versions with and without the grilled and the difference seems pretty minor (if not inaudible, can’t say I was interested in a double blind test).

ATC’s big drive has always been lowering distortion, maintaining dynamic linearity and keeping group delay down. The performance criteria you’re accusing them of failing to achieve (dispersion? I’m not sure which) is something they’ve been getting right in their active designs for years…

 

[IamJF]

Vifa D27 ... every ScanSpeak was better at that time. What Seas do they use now? How much was the D27 - €50,- or less? It's "successor" tweeter at peerless is now €40,- (but don't know how they compare) and it looks like they use them with the old faceplate? https://atc.audio/professional/loudspeakers/scm50a-pro/
These are not bad tweeters but compared to what we use now - entry level. And even then far from top notch, I always wondered why they didn't care more cause the rest of the chassis is really world class, even after all these years.

The mid driver has a waveguide… dispersion between the mid-dome and tweeter is well matched in all of the three ways… how would you like them to improve this with a waveguide.

Seriously?
The 3" is about 4dB down already at 30° at the crossover frequency. A 1" doesn't beam at all at that frequency.
There are very little measurements of these speakers around ... why?

ATC-SM75-150

http://zaphaudio.com/temp/ATC-SM75-150S-offaxis-0-15-30-45-60.gif

So no, dispersion is absolutely not matched. You would at least need a waveguide for the tweeter and to call the rounded edges of the ATC a waveguide ... is marketing.

Rounded edges on my 50ASLs, just like the 100As before them.

How much is this, 10mm radius? That's not working with such a wide baffle. I used 25mm for my first design with a 12" lf driver and bought a 34mm router cause it was not good enough, you still see edge effects.

Don't get me wrong - these are great sounding speakers and give an amount of SPL which you only achieve with a 3" midrange dome and is stunning for big rooms and as main monitors! PMC and ATC got me in the midrange dome wagon and what for e.g. the big PMCs did in a huge room at AES recording competition presentations is incredible.

But to tell that ATC is INNOVATIVE with building the same speaker for 40 years ... simply no.
And they could do better in 2025, add a top notch tweeter with a small waveguide to match or shift the crossover frequency lower (that's what I do in my designs) to achieve a wide radiation speaker.

And ALL speakers from PMC and ATC I heard without the midrange dome ... aren't worth their money (but I don't know all of them, maybe bad luck in selection).

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Photo from Genelec press release.