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New member with new gear. What now?

NicksDad

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Hi, everyone! First post here after lurking for several weeks. Gotta give this group credit for some great material.

Quick background: I'm 54 years old and, while I don't consider myself an audiophile, I do like for music to sound good. Nostalgia has been creeping up on me for a few years and I finally decided to buy a 2-channel setup. After a ton of research I settled on a Yamaha A-S501 integrated amp and a pair of Wharfedale Linton Heritage speakers with matching stands. (I actually started with Klipsch RP-600M II, then 'upgraded' to Wharfedale Denton 85th, then once more to the Lintons.) I'm sincere when I say I'm 100% thrilled with the sound across all my favorite music.

My setup is simple. I live in the Apple ecosystem, so my source is a Gen 3 Apple TV 4K connected via HDMI to an LG WebOS TV, then optical out of the TV to the Yamaha. I don't have records or CDs, and doubt I'd bother with those rabbit holes.

I do like gadgets, though, and I'm wondering if there are any sub-$500 devices I should consider playing with? Streamers like the WiiM Pro and Andover Songbird seem cool, as do DACs from the likes of Schiit and Topping. I'm just not sure if any of these would bring real improvements over what I already have. Should I leave well enough alone, or is there some low-budget game-changing toy that everyone should have?

General questions like this are tough to answer with any certainty, so I'm perfectly happy to hear "Nope, you're good to go."

Thanks!
 

StaresyJ

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Hi, everyone! First post here after lurking for several weeks. Gotta give this group credit for some great material.

Quick background: I'm 54 years old and, while I don't consider myself an audiophile, I do like for music to sound good. Nostalgia has been creeping up on me for a few years and I finally decided to buy a 2-channel setup. After a ton of research I settled on a Yamaha A-S501 integrated amp and a pair of Wharfedale Linton Heritage speakers with matching stands. (I actually started with Klipsch RP-600M II, then 'upgraded' to Wharfedale Denton 85th, then once more to the Lintons.) I'm sincere when I say I'm 100% thrilled with the sound across all my favorite music.

My setup is simple. I live in the Apple ecosystem, so my source is a Gen 3 Apple TV 4K connected via HDMI to an LG WebOS TV, then optical out of the TV to the Yamaha. I don't have records or CDs, and doubt I'd bother with those rabbit holes.

I do like gadgets, though, and I'm wondering if there are any sub-$500 devices I should consider playing with? Streamers like the WiiM Pro and Andover Songbird seem cool, as do DACs from the likes of Schiit and Topping. I'm just not sure if any of these would bring real improvements over what I already have. Should I leave well enough alone, or is there some low-budget game-changing toy that everyone should have?

General questions like this are tough to answer with any certainty, so I'm perfectly happy to hear "Nope, you're good to go."

Thanks!
Hi Nicksdad. I was new on this forum a few weeks back. I’m about the same age, returning to audio as a pleasure now the kids have flown the nest. I’ve experimented with a Topping DAC, it definitely makes a difference in my book. I’m waiting on delivery of a Wiim Pro to get the streaming sorted. That’s me done. From top to bottom, CD, streamer, DAC, integrated Amp, speakers. Happy camper.
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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Hi Nicksdad. I was new on this forum a few weeks back. I’m about the same age, returning to audio as a pleasure now the kids have flown the nest. I’ve experimented with a Topping DAC, it definitely makes a difference in my book. I’m waiting on delivery of a Wiim Pro to get the streaming sorted. That’s me done. From top to bottom, CD, streamer, DAC, integrated Amp, speakers. Happy camper.
Nice to meet you! What were you comparing the Topping DAC to? I'm happy to try one if a difference is easily heard. The Wiim Pro might come in handy for listening to music with the TV off. Thanks!
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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Some people will argue gadgets unceasingly, but if you like what you're listening to, then you're miles ahead of any gadget-gopher out there.

At the end of the day, the equipment is actually just one thing; a key to open the door to music.

Enjoy.

Jim
Thanks, Jim. I've mainly listened to music in my car or with headphones for the past couple of decades, so having this gear has definitely opened the music door a bit wider. Nothing really beats open air audio. I do like this setup.
 

Waxx

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You already got a quiet decent system. You can do better, but the question is, is it needed.

The (relative) weak point in your setup is the amp (and build in dac). Not that the yamaha is really bad, but it can be done much better for not so much money also. Some will also bring the lack of dsp into play, but that is something complex that most don't want to bother.

But if you do, replace the amp with a high rated amp (ncore or purifi based is good, but there is more) and a dac with dsp (like the minidsp flex) with room correction. That may make a difference but can cost a few thousands. So it's up to you to decide if it's worth it.

But again, you got a quiet decent system toghetter, so if it fits your need, no need to upgrade.
 

charleski

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A miniDSP flex with the Dirac Live licence and a measurement mic will cost $770, so a bit beyond your budget. But (when properly setup) it will do a lot more for the sound quality than tinkering around with a different amp, DAC or streamer. Getting DSP right can be tricky, though, so you might want to read up (there are lots of threads on it here) before going down that route.

[Edit]You can save $200 by not buying the Dirac licence and doing adjustments yourself using REW. This will require some expertise, though it's not massively complicated. It depends on how much time you have to spend on learning the process and adjusting things.
 
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Rednaxela

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Nice to meet you! What were you comparing the Topping DAC to? I'm happy to try one if a difference is easily heard. The Wiim Pro might come in handy for listening to music with the TV off. Thanks!
Is there no way to use your Apple TV as a streamer without the LG TV on? I mean by connecting and controlling it differently? If so I'd probably not bother with any other streamer.

As others have noted, get a measurement microphone, install REW, and do some measurements. The results will blow your mind and put you on a path towards real improvements. It only takes a hundred or so bucks and some free software. Best gadget you can get yourself at this point IMO.
 

Galliardist

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What is your streaming provider?
Apple Music, if you are using that, is quite difficult to change equipment for. In your setup, if you use the digital audio will be converted somewhere to 48/24 for the optical output of the TV. The conversion itself shouldn't be an issue, but the TV may do other processing as well and cause some issues. (I use a Samsung TV for some streaming, and the Tidal app gives dropouts and some other audible issues. I can of course not use the Tidal app and others don't appear to be affected). While it's probably not a problem, it's worth checking for.
Apple Music isn't built into most (in fact all) non-Apple streaming devices. So, you need to use an Apple device to stream, or use AirPlay. That in turn would limit your options for streaming it. There are some threads about this here (search) and other information elsewhere. It appears that macOS is an issue - you can use an iPad and a DAC with USB input to get around the limitation of your current setup if there is one and it becomes important to you.

If you use a different streaming provider then the world's your oyster. Any streamer with an iOS control app (or even a web app) and SPDIF out will work with the Yamaha and you can use a different DAC as you wish. If you have an old but still fairly recent Mac lying around, it's worth considering software like Audirvana or Roon that can use DSP. It may be a bit more difficult, but everything stays in the Mac ecosystem. It's just a pain that these applications can't directly interface to Apple Music even on Mac hardware.
 

StaresyJ

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Hi Nicksdad. I was new on this forum a few weeks back. I’m about the same age, returning to audio as a pleasure now the kids have flown the nest. I’ve experimented with a Topping DAC, it definitely makes a difference in my book. I’m waiting on delivery of a Wiim Pro to get the streaming sorted. That’s me done. From top to bottom, CD, streamer, DAC, integrated Amp, speakers. Happy camper.
Hi. My only reference point for the DAC is, do most songs (streamed or from CD source) sound fresher, lifted and more sparkly via the external DAC, and my conclusion is yes, they do. This might be recency bias, it might not! The one thing I have learnt is that we all have different ears and brains for processing what we hear and how we interpret sound, so what works for me might not for others, and vice versa. That’s a very basic standard statement I know, but I keep it in mind all the time!
 

DavidEdwinAston

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Hi. My only reference point for the DAC is, do most songs (streamed or from CD source) sound fresher, lifted and more sparkly via the external DAC, and my conclusion is yes, they do. This might be recency bias, it might not! The one thing I have learnt is that we all have different ears and brains for processing what we hear and how we interpret sound, so what works for me might not for others, and vice versa. That’s a very basic standard statement I know, but I keep it in mind all the time!
Fresher, lifted and more sparkly might be a bit "subjective" for these here regions StaresyJ.
But if you are happy with your gear, that's the main thing.
Happy new year!
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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You already got a quiet decent system. You can do better, but the question is, is it needed.

The (relative) weak point in your setup is the amp (and build in dac). Not that the yamaha is really bad, but it can be done much better for not so much money also. Some will also bring the lack of dsp into play, but that is something complex that most don't want to bother.

But if you do, replace the amp with a high rated amp (ncore or purifi based is good, but there is more) and a dac with dsp (like the minidsp flex) with room correction. That may make a difference but can cost a few thousands. So it's up to you to decide if it's worth it.

But again, you got a quiet decent system toghetter, so if it fits your need, no need to upgrade.
I'm quite happy with the amp for the moment, but the idea of a DSP interests me. Years ago I had a Pioneer DEH-80PRS car stereo configured for 3-way (high, mid, low) with a nice set of component speakers and subs. The first time I used the auto-tuning DSP it almost blew my mind. I can see where tuning might be helpful. Thanks!
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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A miniDSP flex with the Dirac Live licence and a measurement mic will cost $770, so a bit beyond your budget. But (when properly setup) it will do a lot more for the sound quality than tinkering around with a different amp, DAC or streamer. Getting DSP right can be tricky, though, so you might want to read up (there are lots of threads on it here) before going down that route.

[Edit]You can save $200 by not buying the Dirac licence and doing adjustments yourself using REW. This will require some expertise, though it's not massively complicated. It depends on how much time you have to spend on learning the process and adjusting things.
Thanks for mentioning the miniDSP Flex. I'll definitely look into it, along with REW. This is exactly the kind of product recommendation I was looking for. As I was Googling I also ran across the HiFiBerry DAC+ DSP hat I could slap on top of one of my Pis. It might be a fun way to get my feet wet.
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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Is there no way to use your Apple TV as a streamer without the LG TV on? I mean by connecting and controlling it differently? If so I'd probably not bother with any other streamer.

As others have noted, get a measurement microphone, install REW, and do some measurements. The results will blow your mind and put you on a path towards real improvements. It only takes a hundred or so bucks and some free software. Best gadget you can get yourself at this point IMO.
Unfortunately, the TV needs to be on to complete the signal path. I could add a streamer/AirPlay device between the TV and amp, though. I'll have to see how badly I want it first. Thanks for seconding the REW recommendation.
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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What is your streaming provider?
Apple Music, if you are using that, is quite difficult to change equipment for. In your setup, if you use the digital audio will be converted somewhere to 48/24 for the optical output of the TV. The conversion itself shouldn't be an issue, but the TV may do other processing as well and cause some issues. (I use a Samsung TV for some streaming, and the Tidal app gives dropouts and some other audible issues. I can of course not use the Tidal app and others don't appear to be affected). While it's probably not a problem, it's worth checking for.
Apple Music isn't built into most (in fact all) non-Apple streaming devices. So, you need to use an Apple device to stream, or use AirPlay. That in turn would limit your options for streaming it. There are some threads about this here (search) and other information elsewhere. It appears that macOS is an issue - you can use an iPad and a DAC with USB input to get around the limitation of your current setup if there is one and it becomes important to you.

If you use a different streaming provider then the world's your oyster. Any streamer with an iOS control app (or even a web app) and SPDIF out will work with the Yamaha and you can use a different DAC as you wish. If you have an old but still fairly recent Mac lying around, it's worth considering software like Audirvana or Roon that can use DSP. It may be a bit more difficult, but everything stays in the Mac ecosystem. It's just a pain that these applications can't directly interface to Apple Music even on Mac hardware.
My streaming provider is only Apple Music at the moment, but I've had trials of Amazon Music, Tidal, and Spotify in the past few months. My biggest issues is I'm old and lazy, so I want to have one platform that works with my phone, Apple TV, and CarPlay. Plus, we have a family subscription and NicksMom and the kids already know how to use Apple Music.

I should mention I've got the LG 75SM9070PUA optical connection set to Pass Through mode. I don't use any of its built-in apps. I would hope it's not processing the signal from the Apple TV, but who knows? I haven't had any dropouts or issues.
 

Multicore

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I do like gadgets, though, and I'm wondering if there are any sub-$500 devices I should consider playing with?
Yes, absolutely. In that price range I would get a Yamaha FG850.

Given what you said about how thrilled you are with the new home stereo, I think it's a very bad idea to modify that with gadgets. At best you can do things like getting expensive interconnects and speaker cables, if you like that kind of thing. They are decorative and harmless.

Otoh, there are devices for under $500 you can play with, enjoy, learn from, and be creative with for many years to come.

Or spend it on books. Or maybe some art to decorate the spaces between the Wharfedales.

As some say over here: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 

GXAlan

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If you are 100% happy, you don’t need to get lost in the tweaks at this point. Bringing a UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 into the mix is a no brainer in my mind since it can help you fine tune toe in or speaker position from wall, etc. You can then try eq later. A good mic will “grow” with you if you think you will do more with your system down the line. It makes less sense if you are 100% happy.

I do think that all speakers have compromises. Since your Yamaha has A and B speaker switching, having a different speaker like the JBL Studio 530 to give you *options* for picking a speaker that suits your mood. You can also do this if your room has two sitting positions.

I didn’t see a subwoofer in your setup. The Monolith 10” sub is out of your price point but the 8” would still be a nice addition. It will fill out the lowest octave.


The subwoofer will be the biggest bang for the buck, but as an 8” subwoofer, it will have the least long term value unless you are very space constrained.
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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Yes, absolutely. In that price range I would get a Yamaha FG850.

Given what you said about how thrilled you are with the new home stereo, I think it's a very bad idea to modify that with gadgets. At best you can do things like getting expensive interconnects and speaker cables, if you like that kind of thing. They are decorative and harmless.

Otoh, there are devices for under $500 you can play with, enjoy, learn from, and be creative with for many years to come.

Or spend it on books. Or maybe some art to decorate the spaces between the Wharfedales.

As some say over here: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Ha! I love this response, and there's no harm in getting another instrument (we've got a guitar, keyboard, bongos, ukulele, and a drum set already).

A couple months ago I decided to scratch the 2ch itch and started looking at what $500 would get me. Then I increased the budget to $1000, then $1500, then a hair north of $2000 for the Yamaha and Lintons. I know I can keeping creeping up the price ladder ad infinitum, but I've got to be reasonable at some point. I adore the speakers. They're never going anywhere. I don't believe I can get a better amp (with the features I'm enjoying) for less than double the cost unless I stay in Yamaha's lineup, but I'm open to eventually replacing the A-S501. I've got an itchy attraction to the Peachtree Nova models, but do I really need one? Probably not. I think what I could use most is more time to listen to what I have.
 

Rednaxela

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Unfortunately, the TV needs to be on to complete the signal path. I could add a streamer/AirPlay device between the TV and amp, though. I'll have to see how badly I want it first.
Or maybe you could use this.

 

LouB

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I got one these streamers used and love it. I'm using Qobuz as there content is CD quality and sounds like it. Probably best 300 bucks ever spent on gear.
 
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NicksDad

NicksDad

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If you are 100% happy, you don’t need to get lost in the tweaks at this point. Bringing a UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 into the mix is a no brainer in my mind since it can help you fine tune toe in or speaker position from wall, etc. You can then try eq later. A good mic will “grow” with you if you think you will do more with your system down the line. It makes less sense if you are 100% happy.

I do think that all speakers have compromises. Since your Yamaha has A and B speaker switching, having a different speaker like the JBL Studio 530 to give you *options* for picking a speaker that suits your mood. You can also do this if your room has two sitting positions.

I didn’t see a subwoofer in your setup. The Monolith 10” sub is out of your price point but the 8” would still be a nice addition. It will fill out the lowest octave.


The subwoofer will be the biggest bang for the buck, but as an 8” subwoofer, it will have the least long term value unless you are very space constrained.
I'm down for tweaking the sound I have, so a mic would come in handy. I'll spend the next couple weeks evaluating what all needs to be done there. That's a door I didn't expect to open at the beginning of this thread, but it's already sounding like fun.

I hadn't thought of adding a second set of speakers. That's a great idea. There are still some much less expensive options I wanted to try and I already know the differences can be night and day.

When I had the Denton 85s I borrowed the sub from my home theater and it really helped. I'm sure it would help the Lintons, too, but I really like how low the Lintons go by themselves.

For more background, this is all in our master bedroom. The room is 14'x17' and the TV is centered on one of the long walls. The amp and Apple TV sit on a long dresser beneath it, and the speakers are left and right of the dresser by about 12" and about 12" away from the wall. Our bed is on the opposite long wall, evenly flanked by windows and bedside tables. A French door to our deck is centered on one of the 14' walls, and the opposite wall has a passage door for the bedroom and another for the bathroom. The two windows and French door have drapes. The flooring is hardwood with no rugs. I'm sure room treatment would help a lot, but I doubt I could sell it to NicksMom. And I know I'm getting a bit of room gain from the speaker placement, but I can't bring them forward much more without bumping into them. Still, they do sound amazing as-is, especially considering the only audio we had in here before was from the TV's speakers.
 
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