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New member from Gouda

LTig

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Citation: "A form of acknowledgement that sounds less aggressive when verbally said, but is synonymous to "f*ck off" in the texting world."

Oops:oops: - definitely not what I wanted to express in our texting world.:confused:
[..] Uh huh probably means do tell(us more for confirmation) re claims when used on ASR. It could mean "not that old chestnut again" or …………. .
My understanding was something like kind of a big sceptical question mark ("one more claim without any scientific background").

I think it was @RayDunzl who came up first with in this early posting and used it regularly. It was adopted by a few ASR members, including me when I read his postings here and here.
 

LTig

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I think I've mostly been hearing class AB. The Primare was class D. The Naim had a class A pre amp, but I don't know what the rest of the amp is. It's not always easy to find those details about an amp.
Preamps are always class A (don't know one in class AB).

Regarding power amps the common ground here is that all decent amplifiers sound the same in a DBT as long as they do not clip. Therefore the more power an amp has the less are its chances to clip. IMV this is a strong argument against low powered amps and therefore against reasonably priced class A power amps. The most power for the buck currently is delivered by class D amplifiers.

The other spec to prevent clipping a power amp is enough current drive for the specific speaker load. If the speaker is not very esoteric or has no esoteric crossover a power amp specified for 4 Ohm load should be fine.

And as you may note all these problems disappear in active speakers. The load for each power amp is well known to the designer, and without a passive crossover the load is light anyway. And if the power amp of the woofer really starts to clip the mids and highs are not affected at all, meaning they still sound fine and they will not be destroyed by overheating (clippling creates tons of high frequency energy which in a passive design must be handled by the tweeter. Usually it will do so silently until the voice coil melts. In my youth a saw several tweeters of hifi speakers burned out by clipping amps in a private rock discotheque).
 
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Wenslauw

Wenslauw

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You sure are a fan of active speakers. :) I like the way the Elac Navis ARB51's do it. You can bypass the digital part completely and hook up analogue cables to feed them directly. Unfortunately I wasn't very impressed with them when I heard them. They were connected wirelessly to a discovery connect, maybe that was the issue. I heard there can be some issues with the discovery connect. They generally get good reviews.
 

LTig

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You sure are a fan of active speakers. :)
Not a fan in the meaning of fanatic although it sometimes may appear so.

I stumbled upon active speakers when a colleague asked for my advice buying speakers and he did not find anything he liked. He actually liked the sound of my speakers back then (Magnepan 1.6) but they were no option (size, WAF, ...). Finally we went to the local pro shop and there he listened to K&H O300D and bought them on the spot. I liked them as well, and a few months later I saw a very good offer of those at ebay and bought them as well. When I heard them the first time in my living room I thought "I did not know that the Maggies are sooooo bad". About one year later I added a sub (Genelec 7060B).

In the mean time I have Genelec 8020 on my desktop (and for travelling - you just need the speakers and a smartphone) and my wife has JBL LSR2325 in her working room. Three of my colleagues later asked for advice again, went into hifi shops, then listened to our setups and bought actives as well:
  • one bought a pair of Genelec 8020 for the desktop and a pair of 1st gen Mackie HR824 for the living room
  • one bought 7 Genelec 8020 and a 7060B sub
  • one bought a pair of KH420 (wow)
In the end it was the listening experience which convinced my colleagues.

Most people who listen to any of my setups are very impressed of the SQ, especially when taking the small size in account. The only exception was a neighbour with an expensive tube based audiophile system with Focal Electra 1038B in an almost naked room with just a big sofa inside. It was a very reflective environment and the Focals threw a very diffuse sound field, very different to the pin point exact sound stage thrown by the O300D in my very dry living room. I didn't like his as he didn't like mine, although there were 1 or 2 recordings he actually liked on my system. Side note: the Focals are twice as expensive as the O300D and you still need a power amp.
 

Willem

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It is perhaps useful to list the facts that we have discovered:
1 modern instrumentation like Amir's Audio Precision has a far higher resolution than human hearing. Hence many measured differences will be inaudible. Therefore, the idea that there are audible things that cannot be measured is nonsense. It is precisely the other way around.
2 to be meaningful listening tests have to be level matched, near instantaneous and double blind. Sighted tests of the kind you do in a dealer's showroom are demonstrably misleading.
3 analogue sources are sonically inferior to digital ones at cd resolution. A 35 euro Google Chromecast Audio streaming Spotify will beat any expensive turntable quite easily.
4 properly designed electronics such as DACs and power amplifiers do not have a sonic signature and are completely transparent. Hence they all sound the same if used within their design parameters. If you think they sound different, see point 2). The proviso about use within their design parameters means proper gain matching on analogue inputs, enough power (preferably a lot, and about 2x100 watt at a minimum), and a low output impedance. The good news is that such perfection can be cheap. Sonically transparent integrated 2x100 watt amps like the Yamaha AS501/701 can be had for a few hundred euros, and in a small to medium sized room you usually do not need more power. Even a high powered and perfectly measuring combination like the RME ADI-2 and the 2x350 watt March Audio P502 can be had for less than 2000 euro.
5 speakers are by no means transparent. They are devices on the interface of the mechanical and electrical and cannot be perfect, even though modern ones are a lot better than older designs. Even the best are a weak link in your system, and therefore deserve a large proportion of the budget. Sadly, good ones are expensive. As you will have noticed, there are some dedicated supporters of active speakers on this forum, and it is certainly true that the technology has a bright future. However, for now, my own two favourites happen to be passive designs: the Quad electrostatics and the Harbeth dynamic speakers. Since speakers are so imperfect, you will have to decide for yourself by listening which combination of imperfections bothers you least.
6 the listening room has a major degrading influence on sound quality. Above the so called Schroeder frequency (some 100-300 Hz, depending on room size) reflections degrade the sound, often making it harsher. The solution is to have soft furnishings, carpets, bookcases etc. Below the Schroeder frequency, this will not help, and you will often need to resort to dsp room equalization if you want to have tight bass. In a really small room you will want to avoid deep bass altogether.

So, all in all speakers and the room's acoustics are the most important issues. The good news is that as long as you avoid costly audiophile electronics or expensive fashion objects like turntables, you can have excellent sound for your budget.
 

Doodski

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Thanks, but I only want new stuff I can audition with speakers/components I want.
OK. Used gear is out of the matter. Are you a local shopper or can you order in?
Arcam has a nice high powered class G amp that might wiggle it's way into your price range.
https://www.arcam.co.uk/products,HDA,Power-Amplifier,PA240.htm
https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/arcam-pa240-two-channel-power-amplifier#

The Sankens LAPTs are worth it alone.
I provided warranty repair service for Kinergetics and eventually over the years I bought 2 of those KBA 75 class A amplifiers for personal use. They sound wonderful and yes they actually do sound different. I consider myself fortunate to have had such product for service. Fantastic stuff from a company that mainlines with the design and build of underwater communications gear and made stereo gear on the side. I broke my electrocution/shocking experience virginity on a Kinergetics KBA 280 w/ 40,000µF supply each channel. Took that across the forearm and near broke my face when my arm contacted the tops of the caps and slapped myself hard. Sigh* I miss those days >@^_*@<

Linearity on that amp is out of this world. 75w/ch continuous into 8 Ohms, 150w/ch continuous into 4 Ohms, 300w/ch continuous into 2 Ohms w/ 40,000 micro farad reserve with 1KV transformer. (Very optimistic specs. I never tested it to the limits with 2 ohms load resister.) This amp is pure class-A in operation which means that there is no turning on or off of the power transistors. Some power amp descriptions brag that the amps operate in class-A mode for low power levels, but change to class-AB at the higher levels. This amp uses the brute force approach of staying in class-A for all power levels. This means that the output stages are burning 75 watts of power irrespective of the volume of the music.
Page 3 for specs>
http://www.watchobs.com/Share/KBA 75.pdf
The good old days of class A >@^_*@<
2480726-kinergetics-research-kba-75-platinum-pure-class-a-power-amplifier-one-off-completely-restored.jpg

2480724-kinergetics-research-kba-75-platinum-pure-class-a-power-amplifier-one-off-completely-restored.jpg
 
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Snarfie

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Welkom Wens ik woon in Heemstede ook niet zover bij Gouda vandaan.
 

thefsb

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Call me old fashioned but I'm not a fan of putting the electronics, amp and electronic crossover in the speaker cabinet.
How is that old-fashioned?

I used a pair of Meridian M3 speakers for over 30 years. A friend is now using them in his video editing suite. That's old fashioned!
 
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