New LaiV harmony GanM monoblocks sounds better than purifi (warning subjective information)

[kemmler3D]

But i have tried the dac filters on every volume level, and I could never hear a difference with my purify power amp. And now I do hear differences. And I did not know what these filters do with the sound, so it is like a blind test.
On every volume level. I have a decibel meter.
Exactly the same equipment and XLR cables.

I am not saying what you are describing is impossible or definitely isn't real, but it's impossible for the rest of us to judge what's going on without strictly narrowing down the possible causes, as @voodooless mentions.

The difference between strict controls and casual controls is the difference between prime beef and "mystery meat"... you can eat either one but be sure not to pay premium prices before you get the details

 

[voodooless]

I am not saying what you are describing is impossible or definitely isn't real

It might very well not be. If the amp does not employ a post filter feedback, the impedance of the speaker will influence the frequency response, and notably, the high-frequency bit of the speaker impedance has quite a bump:

[Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-confidence-30-loudspeaker-measurements ]

So that may lead to a significant bump in the high-frequency response.

None of this is a good reason to spend 5x more on amps. You can get the same effect with a Fosi V3 for only around €$ 100,0. Or totally for free, by using the EQ of the Eversolo.

Send the amp in for testing, then we will know soon enough!

As for DAC filters, I would expect that potentially Slow and Super slow would yield an audible difference, but I see no reason that this isn't audible in both amps. Maybe with the LAiV, it's easier to pick out if it indeed has elevated high-frequencies.

 

[boXem]

It it one of those? I very much doubt that.

Edit: nope, it claims a damping factor of 500.

Outside of @orchardaudio I have yet to hear about a GanFET amp with global feedback.

Damping factor 500, yes, but at 1 kHz. FR 20Hz – 22kHz, within ± 3 dB may cast a bit more doubt.

 

[voodooless]

I have yet to hear about a GanFET amp with global feedback.

Well, I guess it's a matter of definition. I still think an amp with pre-filter feedback should be considered global feedback.

 

[Human Bass]

Well, as long you happy with the results, we are objectively trying to please or subjectivity

 

[boXem]

Well, I guess it's a matter of definition. I still think an amp with pre-filter feedback should be considered global feedback.

So how should we name Hypex/Purifi amplifiers? Please not PFFB, the 6dB loop from some TI implementations is absolutely not related.

 

[Panelhead]

Also, consider how much noise an amplifier generates. The norm is THD+N expressed as a percent of total output. So the louder the music the higher the distortion for the same THD+N. The music masks the distortion.
I am a Benchmark fanboi. Here is a link to a Technote they released yesterday. Along with the items mentioned above, this may be applicable to hearing a difference in amplifiers that have good measurements.

https://ctoz.omnicamp1.com/ce/c/5cf...f02b04bfba04164dc67c1347ba83c7baa96c496270917

 

[NTK]

Also, consider how much noise an amplifier generates. The norm is THD+N expressed as a percent of total output. So the louder the music the higher the distortion for the same THD+N. The music masks the distortion.
I am a Benchmark fanboi. Here is a link to a Technote they released yesterday. Along with the items mentioned above, this may be applicable to hearing a difference in amplifiers that have good measurements.

https://ctoz.omnicamp1.com/ce/c/5cf...f02b04bfba04164dc67c1347ba83c7baa96c496270917

Extremely disappointed that John Siau is spouting this kind of BS. He is basically denying the existence of auditory masking, claiming 25 dB SPL of noise/distortion is a problem when the music is 105 dB SPL. Total BS.

 

[Geert]

At the end of the whole story the distortion SPL is still 80dB lower than the signal SPL, as depicted by the THD+N graph, at a level we know is difficult (or nearly impossible) to detect. Not to mention the speakers adding a ton of distortion. So I’m also not sure what I just watched.

 

[Soniclife]

Extremely disappointed that John Siau is spouting this kind of BS. He is basically denying the existence of auditory masking, claiming 25 dB SPL of noise/distortion is a problem when the music is 105 dB SPL. Total BS.

View attachment 464989

Those typical components don't look typical to me either, much worse than you can get for very little money.

 

[Purité Audio]

Counter productive, they need to re-think their marketing before he becomes PS Audio Paul.
Keith

 

[NTK]

Those typical components don't look typical to me either, much worse than you can get for very little money.

John Siau used third party measurement data from Stereophile in the video. I'd assume those numbers represent the performance of the typical devices Stereophile reviews, and the majority of which are from a different segment of the market than the one ASR members are most enthusiastic in.

 

[Audionaut]

What I noticed is a somewhat more lively sound and more depth and separation. Equally width soundstage but deeper.
I didn’t expect that.

A thread title and a sound description to open a popcorn bag. The course of the thread is just as predictable as a thread in a forum for vegans in which someone extols the virtues of a T-bone steak.

 

[Audionaut]

By the way, it's about these amplifiers.
I think it would be nice if you didn't have to google them yourself first.

https://www.laiv.audio/harmony-ganm

 

[Qwert]

It might very well not be. If the amp does not employ a post filter feedback, the impedance of the speaker will influence the frequency response, and notably, the high-frequency bit of the speaker impedance has quite a bump:

View attachment 464918
[Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-confidence-30-loudspeaker-measurements ]

So that may lead to a significant bump in the high-frequency response.

None of this is a good reason to spend 5x more on amps. You can get the same effect with a Fosi V3 for only around €$ 100,0. Or totally for free, by using the EQ of the Eversolo.

Send the amp in for testing, then we will know soon enough!

As for DAC filters, I would expect that potentially Slow and Super slow would yield an audible difference, but I see no reason that this isn't audible in both amps. Maybe with the LAiV, it's easier to pick out if it indeed has elevated high-frequencies.

So I have spent 3500 euros for nothing you say. Well it is a hobby and gives us a lot of pleasure. And the amps don’t run hot and have a small form factor. Feels like quality product. Still happy with them.
Thanks for all the answers! Very interesting.

I would love to sent them in for measurement, but I live in the Netherlands.

 

[voodooless]

So I have spent 3500 euros for nothing you say. Well it is a hobby and gives us a lot of pleasure.

Well, sometimes that is the most valid argument to have: fun and pleasure. Just don't get distracted by all the marketing fluff.

And the amps don’t run hot and have a small form factor. Feels like quality product. Still happy with them.

They do look like quality parts for sure. No argument there. The OLED screen is really cool!

I would love to sent them in for measurement, but I live in the Netherlands.

Yeah, too bad. Maybe someone closer to Amir will do it... Otherwise, I doubt we'll see any objective data soon. It doesn't seem like LAiV is interested in sending products to outlets like Stereophile that also measure the equipment they review.

 

[Panelhead]

Your pictures did not do them justice. The website shows them properly. Very professional and appealing.
They definitely are not chasing specs. Those published numbers seem closer to tube amplifiers.
Like most recent amplifiers they are smaller than they look. From your pictures I assumed about twice as large.
This is a hard audience. If you had spent 350 Euros some would say why not a Fosi for less.

 

[Foxxy]

Your pictures did not do them justice. The website shows them properly. Very professional and appealing.
They definitely are not chasing specs. Those published numbers seem closer to tube amplifiers.
Like most recent amplifiers they are smaller than they look. From your pictures I assumed about twice as large.
This is a hard audience. If you had spent 350 Euros some would say why not a Fosi for less.

And here is the explanation: better than true.
Like Bruno Putzey said, a Macintosh will always win against a purely honest power amplifier in a listening test. You add just that little bit of fairy dust to sweeten the deal.

I trust no amp outside of Chipamps(most), Hypex, Purifi, IcePower, Benchmark, maybe Emotiva. Noone else will guarantee to not tamper with the sound to make it sound better than neutral. It's the whole business with HiFi amps.

 

[Qwert]

And here is the explanation: better than true.
Like Bruno Putzey said, a Macintosh will always win against a purely honest power amplifier in a listening test. You add just that little bit of fairy dust to sweeten the deal.

I trust no amp outside of Chipamps(most), Hypex, Purifi, IcePower, Benchmark, maybe Emotiva. Noone else will guarantee to not tamper with the sound to make it sound better than neutral. It's the whole business with HiFi amps.

It is not as simple as that. Impedance has an effect on the linearity of the amplifier.
Look at the interesting video from Erin about the effects of different impedance trajectories of amplifiers and speakers.

 

[jlopes89]

Hey Barry from Holland, I have several Ganfet amps that I use for an active crossover and they do sound "livelier" than my Classe 2300s; probably the best word to describe them. At the end of the day, your ears and preferences are the most important; regardless of what the rest may say. That being said, aren't power amps supposed to be "invisible", meaning that their job is to provide gain and leave the coloration to the DACs, preamps and, most importantly, your speakers.

BTW, I met the owner of LAIV at Axpona last year and based on his beliefs and the quality of components LAIV uses in their products, I believe they are a worthy competitor in a very competitive market.

If your change to Ganfets and selection of LAIV are a welcome surprise for you, that's all that counts. Congrats and cheers.