New Kii Seven

[Pearljam5000]

They sound pretty good

 

[Puddingbuks]

Magnificent speakers. I like them a lot.

I was waiting for them to arrive Q1 2024 for my smaller living room setup, but then the black friday Kef sales got the best of me.

Bought a pair of black LS60, wonder how they would compare at about half the price. Yes almost half the price, if you buy stands and the Kii control.

I was amazed how much low end the Kii’s can produce, and wonder if the Kef’s can match that with four smaller woofers. Kii’s play not super deep, but with a nice punch and pressure.

I also am puzzled if the Kef LS60 can be made “cardioid” like the Kii Seven. They both have woofers on the side and mid/high on the front. Although the Kii’s front woofer digs down deeper.

Is the Kef “apparent point source” comparable? Why doesn’t Kef make the LS60 cardioid?

Anyways, nice to see that more hifi speakers are coming out with active designs and dsp.

 

[Absolute]

Wow, I guess I must go listen to these because I don't believe in hype. I bought my Kii Threes for around 7500-8000$ depending on exchange rate back in 2017 and thought that was already borderline too expensive then.

I also found the bottom end and upper bass lacking and added two subs (4x 10 inch drivers) to aid in the 20-200 hz range in my small room after experiencing the magic of BXT over the course of many hours in a largish demoroom.

I can't imagine feeling a mini-kii at the same + cost would ever feel like good value to me.
Well, just goes to show that we weight different things differently.

 

[Puddingbuks]

The Kii Three is almost double the price of the Seven. Comparing new to second hand prices isn’t fair.

 

[Absolute]

I bought them new...

 

[Pearljam5000]

Back then everything was cheaper ...

 

[Puddingbuks]

I bought them new...

OK I stand corrected.

In Europe they were 10.000 euro with stands when introduced in 2015. Now they’re priced at 15.000 euro without stands.

What subs did you use?

 

[Purité Audio]

Back then everything was cheaper ...

If only PJ if only!

 

[Purité Audio]

Wow, I guess I must go listen to these because I don't believe in hype. I bought my Kii Threes for around 7500-8000$ depending on exchange rate back in 2017 and thought that was already borderline too expensive then.

I also found the bottom end and upper bass lacking and added two subs (4x 10 inch drivers) to aid in the 20-200 hz range in my small room after experiencing the magic of BXT over the course of many hours in a largish demoroom.

I can't imagine feeling a mini-kii at the same + cost would ever feel like good value to me.
Well, just goes to show that we weight different things differently.

We were the first with them in the U.K. and they were £9k a pair back then, for what you got it seemed pretty reasonable no Kii control back then of course. What are they now ( depending upon paint option) £16 k in standard grey?
Over here there are I believe only a few domestic kii retailers , Ultimate stream have their’s on Ebay one of the Scot’s have their kii/BXTs in the discounted section, the Cornish retailers don’t list them any more, probably more retailers I just don’t know about as the U.K. distributor doesn’t list retailers on their site.
Keith

 

[Absolute]

OK I stand corrected.

In Europe they were 10.000 euro with stands when introduced in 2015. Now they’re priced at 15.000 euro without stands.

What subs did you use?

Yeah, the retail was around 10k, but even then it was a tough sell in the conservative audiophile community. Small, plastic and, worst of all, active wasn't an attractive proposition in the community 7 years ago. So I got a nice discount with the Kii Control included as one of the first buyers in my country.
It was a very good price compared to retail and I managed to get it all back after 4 years, but knowing what I know now, I'll never agree that these prices we're seeing in the mid-to-high end audiophile market is good value in terms of sound quality per $.

I used two DIY subs with 2 Scan Speak 26w 4558t00 10 inch drivers on each. They were designed to play up to above 300 hz, so they didn't extend any lower than the Kii Three, but they could play with much greater authority from 20-200 hz. In short, I wanted a poor man's BXT. It worked.

We were the first with them in the U.K. and they were £9k a pair back then, for what you got it seemed pretty reasonable no Kii control back then of course. What are they now ( depending upon paint option) £16 k in standard grey?
Over here there are I believe only a few domestic kii retailers , Ultimate stream have their’s on Ebay one of the Scot’s have their kii/BXTs in the discounted section, the Cornish retailers don’t list them any more, probably more retailers I just don’t know about as the U.K. distributor doesn’t list retailers on their site.
Keith

I got the Kii Control included, but had to wait 6 months or so for it to arrive. In my opinion that Control is absolutely necessary and should be included as standard. We as consumers are morons to accept otherwise.
I remember the price of the Kii's rising very rapidly over the first few years, to an extent that they were 50 % more expensive in the first two or three years I had them.

I understand that starting up a new business-venture with rapid expansion is extremely costly and comes with high risk. But as a consumer I don't care about any of that. I measure the value of things only in how long it takes me to save that amount, how much I need it and how well it competes with anything else I could have used that money on.
Kii Three at the price I bought them at was a stretch for me to justify back then. At today's price I would never even contemplate them.

 

[thewas]

I also am puzzled if the Kef LS60 can be made “cardioid” like the Kii Seven. They both have woofers on the side and mid/high on the front. Although the Kii’s front woofer digs down deeper.

Is the Kef “apparent point source” comparable? Why doesn’t Kef make the LS60 cardioid?

Because the uni-Q used in the LS60 has a pure mid driver which must crossed high (in the LS60 it is crossed at 390 Hz) and above that frequency a cardioid wouldn't make any real sense or advantage as there is already a rising natural beaming there.

 

[Absolute]

While cardioide has real merit, it's important to not go completely overboard with the claimed importance.
While it helps to reduce spl of far off-axis, or increase the focus of the beam, however one look at it, it's not like everything disappears. Kii themselves claim something like a 4,8 dB effect on the Three iirc.

Looking at the polar plot, you'll see that there's still very much going on at 90 degree angle and that the main benefit is what happens behind the speaker;

Kii Audio THREE Review

Kii Audio THREE 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Comparing it to Buchardt s400 mk2 for context;

https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/buchardt_s400_mkii/ In my experience you'll still need to think about reflections from the side and verticals, but have far more liberty in regards to the front wall.

There's a point in here somewhere that perhaps one could achieve much of the same with simple, cheap absorption and something like the ls60 for a third of the price.

But beggars can't be choosers. If there's no flexibility in terms of speaker size, acoustics, freedom of placement etc it's hard to argue against a Kii, Dutch 8c, SigbergAudio Manta or Gkgngwhatever m2.

That was my exact reasoning when I went for the Kiis in the first place. No better option within my restrictions.

 

[dfuller]

While cardioide has real merit, it's important to not go completely overboard with the claimed importance.
While it helps to reduce spl of far off-axis, or increase the focus of the beam, however one look at it, it's not like everything disappears. Kii themselves claim something like a 4,8 dB effect on the Three iirc.

It does make a difference to the sides - Keep in mind that the orange is 10+dB down from the on-axis beam. That's a huge amount reduced in radiation. Besides that - the 200-500hz transition region is where EQ doesn't really work as it isn't minimum phase. The less off-axis you have there, the better. And boy do the Kiis do that.

 

[Absolute]

It does make a difference to the sides - Keep in mind that the orange is 10+dB down from the on-axis beam. That's a huge amount reduced in radiation. Besides that - the 200-500hz transition region is where EQ doesn't really work as it isn't minimum phase. The less off-axis you have there, the better. And boy do the Kiis do that.

I don't want to downplay the cardioide effect either, just establish a balanced perspective on what it does - and how it translates to reality.
Thankfully I have real-life measurements where I have placed Kii and Devialet Phantom Silver (and Klipsch RP-160m) on the exact same spot so I can provide an idea of what to expect in terms of benefits.

Here's a worst case scenario - measurements of a single speaker placed near a corner in the area you're talking about.
Phantom Silver in purple. This was originally a demonstration of the Silver's insane bass-boost. Kii in Green placed in the same spot shows a little bit smoother response between 200-500 hz, but not too much of a difference in the steady-state.

Unfortunately I don't have the raw files of the measurements available so I can't remove the big difference in the bass output from that measurement. I did however find measurements of Klipsch Rp-160m vs Kii -both speakers playing measured at the same spl - same placement.

Kii is color blue here, showing about 3-4 dB lower reflection power from early reflections. Kii is taller on the stand, so time of arrival is a little bit different.

 

[Pearljam5000]

There may be a mistake or something but the price is about half of what it supposed to be.

 

[Purité Audio]

They usually price per single speaker.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

They usually price per single speaker.
Keith

Yes but it says pair

 

[JustJones]

There may be a mistake or something but the price is about half of what it supposed to be.
View attachment 345300View attachment 345301

Must be typo in the US they are $7990 pair.

Kii SEVEN Compact DSP-Controlled Monitor - Fine Touch Dark Gray, Stereo Pair

Compact DSP-controlled 3-way active monitor pair with cardioid point-source technology, minimum phase or minimum latency modes, and XLR, TRS, AES/EBU, WiFi, Bluetooth, and Dante connectivity

vintageking.com

 

[Pearljam5000]

Must be typo in the US they are $7990 pair.

Kii SEVEN Compact DSP-Controlled Monitor - Fine Touch Dark Gray, Stereo Pair

Compact DSP-controlled 3-way active monitor pair with cardioid point-source technology, minimum phase or minimum latency modes, and XLR, TRS, AES/EBU, WiFi, Bluetooth, and Dante connectivity

vintageking.com

That's why it's a bargain if anyone's quick enough

 

[Purité Audio]

Typo KMR have them for £8400 for a pair.
Keith