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new KEF KC62 dual 6.5" subwoofer

prmfeddema

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Given the fact that SVS have just released the 3000 Micro i'm holding back on the KC62 until i either have seen a comparison or heard them myself.
 

simple6

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Given the fact that SVS have just released the 3000 Micro i'm holding back on the KC62 until i either have seen a comparison or heard them myself.

It would be awesome if a reviewer could put them next to each other and take some shots for us to better understand also the size differences. A visual size comparison to a standard 10-12 inch sub would be even better.
 

sfdoddsy

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Back in the good old days (OK, the Eighties) such subs were a thing. A thing started by Bob Carver and the True Subwoofer and continued by Velodyne with the HGS10 and its descendants. I owned an HGS10 for over 20 years and can attest to the fact that such a sub can indeed get down as low as you might want, but never as loud as you might want.

Heck, now that DSP is cheap I can (and sometimes do) EQ my mains (with 8 inch drivers) to be flat below 20Hz.

Commercially, look at what D&D achieve.

But as so many have mentioned, you cannot overcome the laws of physics.

Equally, as so many forget, 80-85db is actually far louder than most people listen.

Using a dB meter I've measured my full range speakers with multiple subs at what my ears say is very high volume only to discover it is actually averaging under 75dB.

I manage to (just) get away with 12 inch subs for the system in our family area. Could I not, the petiteness of the KEF would be very tempting.

I do wish they'd go one step further though and make a dedicated stand using the same technology and aesthetics for the LS50.

It certainly needs stereo subs acoustically.

Small subs are easy to hide. Subs that look like speaker stands are even easier.
 

sigbergaudio

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I do wish they'd go one step further though and make a dedicated stand using the same technology and aesthetics for the LS50.

It certainly needs stereo subs acoustically.

Small subs are easy to hide. Subs that look like speaker stands are even easier.

But if you use the subwoofers as stand, you basically have floorstanding speakers. And you miss out on the opportunity to place the subwoofer elsewhere to smoothe out the frequency response.
 

YSC

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But if you use the subwoofers as stand, you basically have floorstanding speakers. And you miss out on the opportunity to place the subwoofer elsewhere to smoothe out the frequency response.
Very true, I didn't think of that! and considering the cost of the KEF stacks... if you have made it 2 pieces floor stander may better off getting just a floor stander..

This KC62 and LS50 set is obviously for 2.1 systems where space or aesthetics are important
 

prmfeddema

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It would be awesome if a reviewer could put them next to each other and take some shots for us to better understand also the size differences. A visual size comparison to a standard 10-12 inch sub would be even better.

The 3000 micro will be availble by the end of april at which point i will have a listening session. I'll put them side by side and take a few photos (unless someone else beats me to it :) ) and post them
 

prmfeddema

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Back in the good old days (OK, the Eighties) such subs were a thing. A thing started by Bob Carver and the True Subwoofer and continued by Velodyne with the HGS10 and its descendants. I owned an HGS10 for over 20 years and can attest to the fact that such a sub can indeed get down as low as you might want, but never as loud as you might want.

Heck, now that DSP is cheap I can (and sometimes do) EQ my mains (with 8 inch drivers) to be flat below 20Hz.

Commercially, look at what D&D achieve.

But as so many have mentioned, you cannot overcome the laws of physics.

Equally, as so many forget, 80-85db is actually far louder than most people listen.

Using a dB meter I've measured my full range speakers with multiple subs at what my ears say is very high volume only to discover it is actually averaging under 75dB.

I manage to (just) get away with 12 inch subs for the system in our family area. Could I not, the petiteness of the KEF would be very tempting.

I do wish they'd go one step further though and make a dedicated stand using the same technology and aesthetics for the LS50.

It certainly needs stereo subs acoustically.

Small subs are easy to hide. Subs that look like speaker stands are even easier.

Could't agree more. And if KEF had included wireless tuning and the wireless module in the KC62 price it would have been a no-brainer for me, but they did not and as a result of that i'm a) delaying my purchase and b) eyeballing the SVS 3000 micro. Both subs are fantastic in size/color - now it comes down to music quality.
 

sfdoddsy

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But if you use the subwoofers as stand, you basically have floorstanding speakers. And you miss out on the opportunity to place the subwoofer elsewhere to smoothe out the frequency response.

If you have the space to place subwoofers elsewhere then of course you should. But the whole point of these tiny subs is to trade acoustic purity for invisibility. And having a speaker sit on stands with scattered subs goes against that idea.

But putting my purist cap back on there are strong acoustic reasons to couple such speakers as the LS50 to dedicated bass stands.

The LS50 in all its iterations starts gasping for air below about 200Hz. You can EQ it like the Wireless version does at the cost of massive distortion and compression. There's only so much that tiny midrange can do.

But it is superb above that range. The LS50 Wireless with active dedicated bass stands would be up there with KEF's own Reference models at half the price. Which is perhaps why they don't do it.

You're much better off adding stereo subs and crossing at 150-200Hz, ie well above where you can localise.

Yes you give up something in placement flexibility and bass smoothing, but gain far more in dynamics and lack of distortion.

Plus the bass is still coming from multiple sources, and can be EQed.
 
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YSC

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If you have the space to place subwoofers elsewhere then of course you should. But the whole point of these tiny subs is to trade acoustic purity for invisibility. And having a speaker sit on stands with scattered subs goes against that idea.

But putting my purist cap back on there are strong acoustic reasons to couple such speakers as the LS50 to dedicated bass stands.

The LS50 in all its iterations starts gasping for air below about 200Hz. You can EQ it like the Wireless version does at the cost of massive distortian and compression. There's only so much that tiny midrange can do.

But it is superb above that range.

You're much better off adding stereo subs and crossing at 150-200Hz, ie well above where you can localise.

Yes you give up something in placement flexibility and bass smoothing, but gain far more in dynamics and lack of distortion.

Plus the bass is still coming from multiple sources, and can be EQed.
from the various modes the sub provides it looks to me that it's all for the sake of placement freedom, it have even a preset inside TV cabinets!
so it could be as in their pormo that speakers on stands and add the sub else where, put in a corner, put inside cabinet or so.

mostly this thing is for a upgrading path. LS50 itself with proper wall loading could provide quite some bass at nearfield, if anyone demands more they could buy this KC62 to complement. In such case no matter the LS50s are placed on desk or stands the stand will be originally in place of the customer's home and if you make a speaker stand sub it will just need to throw away the original stand... so making it separate would be more logical. specifically tailored speaker stand type for say the LS50 would be good for their own combo but will restrain use case for others and hence selling less
 

FeddyLost

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Using a dB meter I've measured my full range speakers with multiple subs at what my ears say is very high volume only to discover it is actually averaging under 75dB.
It depends on weighting. Also, track itself and distortion of reproduction chain will kick in. Clean production at low distortion system can be cranked up a little bit even without noticing.

I do wish they'd go one step further though and make a dedicated stand using the same technology and aesthetics for the LS50.
So, you can go for Amphion, they have this option already.

The LS50 in all its iterations starts gasping for air below about 200Hz. You can EQ it like the Wireless version does at the cost of massive distortion and compression. There's only so much that tiny midrange can do.
I doubt that it's very obvious at 75-80 dB.
5% of 2nd harmonic below 100 Hz at 90 db is totally ok for such size. I think if you brickwall cut bass below i.e. 50-80 Hz, it will work much better.

You're much better off adding stereo subs and crossing at 150-200Hz, ie well above where you can localise.
It will be not subwoofers anymore and will require something front-firing. I mean technically it's possible, but something weird will still happen with midbass. 100-200 Hz is a male voice base, so I'm not sure that correct stereo will present if dual-opposing woofers will play this region.
 

prmfeddema

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Steve Guttenberg’s review on the 3000 micro confirmed my suspicions - i’m getting the kc62. More nimble/faster and a better match to my ls50’s
 
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muad

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Steve Guttenberg’s review on the 3000 micro confirmed my suspicions - i’m getting the kc62. More nimble/faster and a better match to my ls50’s
A faster sub? What's that? Does it move faster than the speed of sound? Does it move so fast that plays higher frequency notes?

Subjectively faster sound, usually means less bass.

Besides that, Steve Guttenburg is not the best person to trust for reviews
 

RMW_NJ

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A faster sub? What's that? Does it move faster than the speed of sound? Does it move so fast that plays higher frequency notes?

Subjectively faster sound, usually means less bass.

Besides that, Steve Guttenburg is not the best person to trust for reviews

Agreed...I would not make a purchasing decision based on Steve’s recommendation (though I’m sure a lot of people do).

I will wait to see how the Micros test, but on the surface being able to get two Micros for the price of one KC62, plus the SVS longer warranty and stellar customer service, plus the SVS app...certainly has me leaning heavily towards SVS.
 

Chrispy

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I wouldn't even watch Guttenberg....faster, lol.
 

richard12511

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Does anyone know of good research on the localizability of bass notes and why the 80Hz crossover was chosen by THX?

I remember (years ago) reading that it was selected because it was an octave lower than the lowest test tone any subject was able to localize, at 160Hz. I also remember reading that no one else was really able to localize below 200Hz.

This is all coming from memory, though, and I have no idea where I read it or how to search for it again. I would think multiple subs would be even harder to localize. These subs are tiny enough to easily hide around the room. I'm imagining a scenario with 4 of these hidden around the room and crossed at 180-200Hz(with steep filters). It seems like that could potentially fix the Meta's only real weakness(imo), turning them into an end game speaker that's still rather aesthetic. Personally, I'd still go for larger subs, but my mom despises the look of visible giant subwoofers. She loves the sound of my RS2s, but hates the appearance. Something like this may the Goldilocks solution.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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A faster sub? What's that? Does it move faster than the speed of sound? Does it move so fast that plays higher frequency notes?

Subjectively faster sound, usually means less bass.

Besides that, Steve Guttenburg is not the best person to trust for reviews
This can be weird in speakers but For example not in ears world ( no one here cares about in ears...)
Now, talking about speed is very common in in-ears world, because most of good in-ears doesn't have a roll off in the sub bass maybe a big jump in mid bass, but for example a flat B.A/ dynamic driver/electroestat sound very different and they are direct in the ear..., you can't compare this in speakers world because 99.99% of subs use Dynamic driver.
 

prmfeddema

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Agreed...I would not make a purchasing decision based on Steve’s recommendation (though I’m sure a lot of people do).

I will wait to see how the Micros test, but on the surface being able to get two Micros for the price of one KC62, plus the SVS longer warranty and stellar customer service, plus the SVS app...certainly has me leaning heavily towards SVS.

Thanks for the feedback :) taking the right decision seems to more complicated than i initially thought :). In any case: i’m really with all the feedback on this forum.

re Guttenburg: no idea about his reputation. Just like his review + the fact he has had both subs for review.
 

More Dynamics Please

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I think I just wasted 19 minutes and 47 seconds of my life watching that whole Guttenberg video. It struck me as like trying to follow a stream of consciousness blog from a scattered Valley girl. Most of it was about the 3000 MicroSub's features that I'd already read on the SVS site plus many generic subwoofer comments plus lots of descriptions of various esoteric test music. Actual meaningful performance information was virtually non-existent. I now understand that I'm not part of Mr. Guttenberg's target audience and will await more serious reviews.
 

RMW_NJ

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Thanks for the feedback :) taking the right decision seems to more complicated than i initially thought :). In any case: i’m really with all the feedback on this forum.

re Guttenburg: no idea about his reputation. Just like his review + the fact he has had both subs for review.

I have 3 SVS subs so perhaps I am biased, but honestly the customer service is a big factor for me. They literally respond to emails and resolve issues in minutes. I’ve read quite a few customer reviews of Kef customers, mainly with their active speakers, who have problems and can’t even get a response to their inquiry let alone a resolution. That was the main reason I didn’t buy a C62 right when it came out. I’m glad I didn’t because the Micros, to me, seem like the better value...at least on paper.
 

prmfeddema

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Agreed...I would not make a purchasing decision based on Steve’s recommendation (though I’m sure a lot of people do).

I will wait to see how the Micros test, but on the surface being able to get two Micros for the price of one KC62, plus the SVS longer warranty and stellar customer service, plus the SVS app...certainly has me leaning heavily towards SVS.

what
I think I just wasted 19 minutes and 47 seconds of my life watching that whole Guttenberg video. It struck me as like trying to follow a stream of consciousness blog from a scattered Valley girl. Most of it was about the 3000 MicroSub's features that I'd already read on the SVS site plus many generic subwoofer comments plus lots of descriptions of various esoteric test music. Actual meaningful performance information was virtually non-existent. I now understand that I'm not part of Mr. Guttenberg's target audience and will await more serious reviews.


yes - actual measurements are missing - something i am desparately waiting for. Note that i like the svs features and looks better than Kef’s, but in the end the deciding factor is how they will match my LS50w2’s... ie sound quality in combination with the la50s
 
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