New JBL 1 Series Monitors

[napilopez]

Are these measurements gated or do they include environmental reflections?

Gated at 7ms

 

[617]

Gated at 7ms

That's really interesting. Definitely some HF reflections going on for it to look that wavy. Good pattern control for the size though.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Definitely some HF reflections going on for it to look that wavy.

I suspect that is the result of standing waves across the “mouth” of the “horn”, it being (I presume) circular and conical.

 

[617]

I suspect that is the result of standing waves across the “mouth” of the “horn”, it being (I presume) circular and conical.

Yes, for all we love to praise coaxial speakers, the idea of using a speaker cone and its surround as a waveguide is a compromised solution at best. There are a whole bunch of discontinuities between the baffle and tweeter, and all of them are circular.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yes, for all we love to praise coaxial speakers, the idea of using a speaker cone and its surround as a waveguide is a compromised solution at best. There are a whole bunch of discontinuities between the baffle and tweeter, and all of them are circular.

Absolutely the discontinuities contribute, but you would see this behaviour to a certain extent in any circular, conical horn, even absent the discontinuities. Which absolutely supports your point ofc

 

[617]

Absolutely the discontinuities contribute, but you would see this behaviour to a certain extent in any circular, conical horn, even absent the discontinuities. Which absolutely supports your point ofc

Yes you are correct, these problems exist for woofers, but generally we don't try to use woofers at frequencies where these things become an issue. One exception is the surround resonance, which is very prominent in the SB satori woofers, not so much because the surround is poorly designed, but because the high frequency response is so smooth and extended, the surround resonance becomes visible.

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/midwoofers/satori/7-satori-mw19p-4/

See the dip above about 1k.

Putting a tweeter in the center of this situation is a very dicey proposition.

 

[napilopez]

All this being said I do think coaxial is useful for a small nearfield speaker like this intended as an entry-level option. You can place them on a desk well below ear level and still get a pretty clean sound.

 

[617]

Also, I don't know much about driver motor d

All this being said I do think coaxial is useful for a small nearfield speaker like this intended as an entry-level option. You can place them on a desk well below ear level and still get a pretty clean sound.

Yes, I would argue that vertical response is more important in a desktop speaker than almost anywhere else where you are listening very close, and the speakers may not be angled up ideally.

 

[napilopez]

Also, I don't know much about driver motor d

Yes, I would argue that vertical response is more important in a desktop speaker than almost anywhere else where you are listening very close, and the speakers may not be angled up ideally.

I think the first part of your post got cut off =]

But yeah. Smoothest response up to 10K or so seems to be around 15 degrees above axis, although it's a bit hard to tell from this messy graph. Regardless, the vertical response is very close to the horizontal response

For an unfair comparison, here's the Neumann KH80 in the horizontal and vertical planes. The Neumann is a similar compact size - a bit smaller in fact - but cost $1,000 a pair.

As anyone who's been following Neumann speakers knows, the KH80's on-axis performance is crazy-flat, the flattest of any I've measured certainly. The horizontal dispersion is pretty much textbook.

In fact, it was flatter than my original stock MiniDSP Umik-1 could capture, so it was only after purchasing a calibrated Umik-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs that I was able to get this close to Neumann's own measurements. It's always great to see a manufacturer provide a plethora of measurements, and then be able to back those up at home. I wish Harman brands would make their own data more accessible given how much influence Harman research has had on the industry.

In the vertical dimension, the KH80 maintains the impressive flatness up to about 15 degrees above/30 degrees below the listening axis (which Neumann defines as the midpoint between the tweeter and woofer), but then you start to see the expected more of the expected dip in the crossover region.

In (sighted) listening comparisons, the Neumann is certainly the better speaker - to me, the best I've heard in a nearfield config at home - but the JBL puts in an impressive performance nonetheless. The latter is also easier to set up; its dispersion performance at steep vertical angles suggest reflected sound from a desk will be more similar in character to the original sound. Meanwhile, Neumann specifies you should raise the KH80 to avoid desk reflections.

This all makes some sense of course; the KH80 is a "pro" speaker, and typical buyers will be more likely to spay special attention to placement and whatnot. But while the 104 is part of JBL's Pro family, it's price point is definitely more entry-level and aimed at newbies. It's a solid option as an affordable desktop speaker that allows you to get good sound and stable imaging with little-to-no attention to placement.

Anyways, I think this all just goes to show that you tend to get more for your money with studio monitors =]

 

[GGroch]

The JBL Series 1 Model 104s are discounted to $99 shipped at the moment as detailed here.

 

[leonroy]

I use old Kef uni-q. They're cheap now because almost all of them have tweeters that need service and kef no longer carries replacements. They're easy to service though.

Not to derail the thread but are these the old ferro fluid filled tweeters you’re referring to? Any tips or links on how to service them?

 

[bigx5murf]

Not to derail the thread but are these the old ferro fluid filled tweeters you’re referring to? Any tips or links on how to service them?

Yes, NT18 and NT25. I've replaced fluid in dozens of them. Just like this https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...rbishing-with-pictures-and-a-question.709897/

The ebay diaphragms must've had running changes, because the latest batch sound terrible. So if you need replacement diaphragms you're SOL.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

JBL has released a Bluetooth version of these:
https://jblpro.com/en/products/104-bt

Looks like pre-order only at the moment.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm still rev'd up hoping to hear the new JBL HDI series at the Tampa show next month???

 

[stunta]

I'm still rev'd up hoping to hear the new JBL HDI series at the Tampa show next month???

"We've got a lot of audiophile details on 'em". That kind of statement always confuses me.

They didn't say if any of these are active speakers.

 

[Sal1950]

They didn't say if any of these are active speakers.

Passive only AFAIK