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New interface: ID14MKII / SSL2+ / MOTU M4

Jordmungandr

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Hi everyone, I’m new around here! I’ve been reading reviews, forums and watching videos to get a better insight on the ID14MKII / SSL2+ / MOTU M4. You guys have a really nice community here, and I would like to get some extra wisdom from you.

I need to upgrade my Presonus FireStudio Mobile, as I recently moved to a MacBook Pro 2016 (all USBC connections). The device is still functional, I can connect it using 2 dongles, but Presonus stopped developing its software since MacOS moved to 64 bits. In any case, I would like to upgrade to USBC and improve the quality of my recordings.

I am crafting my own Doom Metal project, using Logic Pro. I normally use a single line input, plus an XLR if I am doing vocals. Guitar/Bass (to full analog pedalboard > Orange OR15 > Torpedo Captor 8 > Cab simulator), Keyboard (Casiotone connected by USB, to use with plugins as Arturia Analog Lab), and Mic (SM58). For output, I use two Yamaha HS5 / 599SE as headphones. As you can imagine, latency is key and I would appreciate if you also consider it, while comparing the interfaces.

Worth mentioning that I tend to use extra plugins to add texture, as amp simulators or samplers. The projects tend to be heavy and the interface has quite a lot to handle.

I am tempted by the Motu M4, because of the extra 2 line inputs. When I’m not recording, I keep my turntable connected to the interface (Pro-Ject > Denon PMA > 2 line inputs). I have the feeling that the M4 is extremely functional, but I would miss the extra mile on quality that the other two could give me. Am I totally wrong on this?

Considering that I am willing to sacrifice those two extra inputs (at the end of the day I can just connect and disconnect, not a big deal): would you say that the Audient / SSL are a better choice? Guitar / bass players: are you fully satisfied preamp quality?

Note: it seems that the headphone output on Audient has great feedback. I still have a Behringer HA400 at home. I can perfectly use it to compensate that lack of power, if the other interfaces worth it. Headphone amplifiers are cheap anyway.

Also, I have considered the Zen Go…it is a great idea, but unfortunately out of my budget and I am not interested on the built in plugins.
 
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RickSanchez

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would you say that the Audient / SSL are a better choice?
From an ASR perspective it's hard to say. I don't believe the either the ID14MKII or the SSL2+ have been measured here. The Motu M4 measurements show that it's a solid performer, although it's headphone output is nothing to write home about.

Others more knowledgeable than me about audio interfaces / mics / recording will be able to provide you with better direction. But a question to ask is will your current mic be the limiting factor? (For example: see this post.) In other words, a higher quality audio interface isn't going to get you any meaningful improvements if your mic is the gating item, in which case just buy the audio interface that has the right feature set (and price).

This might help?
 
OP
Jordmungandr

Jordmungandr

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Thanks for the answer! Well, I did not mention that but the SM58 is my reference mic while recording sessions but my best friend works at the Kitroom in my local Uni.

In other words, if I need a good mic I can get a C414 for a few days and take it back once I’m happy with the result. Still, I did not mention the mic as a definitive factor because I am not totally sure if I will do vocals for the project either I have a clear idea on what I’m looking for.

You can find videos of Matt Pike saying that he’s running his vocals through a Marsh hahaha…it’s all about experimentation, but the truth is that I’m not after pristine voice tracks. I am more orthodox about my guitar signal coming as clean as possible, either if it’s coming straight from the pedalboard or through the Torpedo Captor.

But hey, it is a good consideration! Maybe I am being too picky with the preamps and I will be fine with any of them if my priority is the line / instrument input. Thanks for the video!
 

Blumlein 88

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Motu M4 is probably the one to beat in this group for performance. I'd probably go with the SSL 2+ because I like the form factor /ergonomics better. It isn't far behind the M4 on specs in any way assuming it more or less meets those specs.

I've not watched this video review, but Julian Krause does a good job and does some basic measurements. He'll show a chart vs the others at some point. I think he has also reviewed the other two you are interested in.
 
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Jordmungandr

Jordmungandr

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Thanks a lot! I called to my local store today and we discussed that the Motus are not abundant in the UK at the moment, there are a few stores around with prices around £210-230. I hate the feeling that I have to rush and decide if I want one, before it’s sold out…

The SSL looks beautiful, and I was initially sold, but as I discussed with the guy at the store I would spend and extra £40-50 compared to the Audient, just to have an extra headphones output (as I am not using Midi, and I am not expecting to do it).

I am almost convinced that the Audient is the best option, looks solid, the reviews are great and the price is the lowest: £170. I would still like to hear more feedback, specially regarding the M4. Is the hype around it justified?
 
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AnalogSteph

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According to its specs, the FireStudio Mobile is no slouch. ADC PCM4204 and DAC PCM4104 (so 118 dB(A) parts), mic EIN -130 dBu unweighted at 55 dB gain, and max mic input level +14 dBu (the SSL 2+ can only take +5.5 even if the instrument input can take +15 dBu, and the M4 tops out at +10 dBu). Input SNR is a bit less impressive at 101 dB unweighted ref. +4 dBu (unity gain, so +4 dBu maximum input as well), though the gain range covers an impressive range of -10 to +70 dB.

If you want a modern interface in the same class, you may have to aim a bit higher. The ones you've been looking at are all decent and may even perform better here and there, but overall something like an iD22, Focusrite Clarett+ 4Pre or RME Babyface Pro may be more like it if you want a clear upgrade.

Latency wise, as a rule of thumb you should be using the highest sample rate you can get away with, which tends to reduce converters' intrinsic filter group delay into insignificant terrain. Driver quality and stability tends to be an even bigger factor (generally best with custom FPGA solutions, not quite as good with XMOS etc.).

For a lot of interfaces, USB Type C just means USB 2.0 with more available bus power... not nearly as spectacular as you might think, and roughly on par with FW400. After all, the bandwidth needed for a mere handful of channels even at 384/32 (let alone 192/24) is comparatively modest. Consequently, most interfaces using Thunderbolt are ones with quite a few channels, though some with fewer ones do exist - TB is basically external PCIe, so you can shave off some extra latency like that.
 
OP
Jordmungandr

Jordmungandr

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Thanks! A few days ago I checked the iD44 and I totally felt in love, it would be my dream audio interface…still, in the UK goes to the £400-430. Everyone mentions that the iD22 is much better than the 14, still I am not really convinced with the connections…the 44 is more attractive to me.

Obviously, it’s twice the price that I am considering…but it’s not impossible. I might be able to get the money if I stretch a few months.

In the other hand, the 44 is really close to the Apollo. I’m definitely entering in a whole new territory.
 

dfuller

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According to its specs, the FireStudio Mobile is no slouch. ADC PCM4204 and DAC PCM4104 (so 118 dB(A) parts), mic EIN -130 dBu unweighted at 55 dB gain, and max mic input level +14 dBu (the SSL 2+ can only take +5.5 even if the instrument input can take +15 dBu, and the M4 tops out at +10 dBu). Input SNR is a bit less impressive at 101 dB unweighted ref. +4 dBu (unity gain, so +4 dBu maximum input as well), though the gain range covers an impressive range of -10 to +70 dB.

If you want a modern interface in the same class, you may have to aim a bit higher. The ones you've been looking at are all decent and may even perform better here and there, but overall something like an iD22, Focusrite Clarett+ 4Pre or RME Babyface Pro may be more like it if you want a clear upgrade.

Latency wise, as a rule of thumb you should be using the highest sample rate you can get away with, which tends to reduce converters' intrinsic filter group delay into insignificant terrain. Driver quality and stability tends to be an even bigger factor (generally best with custom FPGA solutions, not quite as good with XMOS etc.).

For a lot of interfaces, USB Type C just means USB 2.0 with more available bus power... not nearly as spectacular as you might think, and roughly on par with FW400. After all, the bandwidth needed for a mere handful of channels even at 384/32 (let alone 192/24) is comparatively modest. Consequently, most interfaces using Thunderbolt are ones with quite a few channels, though some with fewer ones do exist - TB is basically external PCIe, so you can shave off some extra latency like that.
Unfortunately, it's really pretty bad. High distortion everywhere and very noise prone from bad circuit design.

OP, I'd advise the Audient. Preamps sound good, low noise, plenty of headphone amp for high impedance phones.
 
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Jordmungandr

Jordmungandr

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Unfortunately, it's really pretty bad. High distortion everywhere and very noise prone from bad circuit design.

OP, I'd advise the Audient. Preamps sound good, low noise, plenty of headphone amp for high impedance phones.
Thanks a lot for the advise! And yeah, back when I got it I was really happy as this was my first audio interface.

My FireStudio Mobile didn’t age well, I took good care of it but the front XLR are noisy, the headphone output is just terrible, and over the years developed some background noise while connected to my laptop.

Originally I was going to upgrade to a 68c, but after reading reviews I understood that Presonus does the job in therms of quality/price, but I wouldn’t choose it again for an upgrade.
 

AnalogSteph

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Unfortunately, it's really pretty bad. High distortion everywhere and very noise prone from bad circuit design.
My FireStudio Mobile didn’t age well, I took good care of it but the front XLR are noisy, the headphone output is just terrible, and over the years developed some background noise while connected to my laptop.
Now that sounds more like the Presonus I know. They are no strangers to issues with construction and parts quality, and what you describe sounds like it may all be related. These symptoms remind me of those exhibited by ailing Audient iD22s, where a single (poorly dimensioned) dead electrolytic cap causes the analog supply voltages to take a nosedive.

This interface never was too expensive, selling as low as ~200€ in the early 2010s. I won't be one bit surprised if it was full of dodgy electrolytics and other sins. Should be a good "fixer-upper" project for someone... I bet with some fresh electrolytics and ceramic caps in the signal path strategically replaced by NP0s performance would be a different animal (as much as the board layout will permit, anyway). The ADC and DAC chips alone go for a small fortune in this day and age.
 

JeffGB

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I think you will be happy with either but I have an Audient ID14 MKII and a MOTU M4 on my desk now. They are mostly used for the DAC to power a Topping PA5 amplifier. There are a few drawbacks to the Audient that may or may not be important to you. The MOTU M4 has a true balanced output and a properly summed single-ended output as well. The Audient ID14 MKII has only a pseudo balanced output to a set of TRS connectors. The Audient uses a resistive balancing technique and is not fully balanced from the DAC. It also only has about 3v max output. The MOTU provides up to 5.2v.
In my own use, I wanted a true balanced system so that the summing could be done at the loudspeaker when connected to the PA5. The MOTU provides this and the Audient doesn't.
The headphone output of the Audient has a higher output impedance than the MOTU if that matters to you. The Audient tends to run a lot hotter. It can be very noticeable if you like to rest your hand on the volume control. The Audient is limited to 24bit 96khz and the MOTU is limited to 24bit 192khz if that is important to you.
I can't comment on the ADC, because I have only used them for an occasional ZOOM meeting. I also can't comment on the sound or power of the headphone amplifiers because I use speakers.
That's all I can think of right now. Good luck with your decision!
 

cajadas

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Audient ID14 MKII sounds close to Antelope Audio Discrete 4 (AD/DA conversion). It's still hard to believe to me after several A/B testing. Main difference I notice is in the highs (a bit muffled in ID14 MKII in comparison) and soundstage width. Discrete 4 sounds more open, due to the 64-bit clocking and jitter management. But if you don't compare, ID 14 MKII sounds terrific and it's very capable of doing great mixings. For 200€ it's a no-brainer IMO.
 
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Gzom

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Я думаю, вам понравится и то, и другое, но сейчас у меня на столе стоит Audient ID14 MKII и MOTU M4. Они в основном используются для ЦАП для питания усилителя Topping PA5. У Audient есть несколько недостатков, которые могут быть важными для вас, а могут и не быть. MOTU M4 имеет настоящий симметричный выход, а также правильно суммированный несимметричный выход. Audient ID14 MKII имеет только псевдосимметричный выход на набор разъемов TRS. Audient использует метод резистивной балансировки и не полностью балансируется от ЦАП. Он также имеет максимальное выходное напряжение около 3 В. MOTU обеспечивает до 5,2 В.
Для собственного использования мне нужна была по-настоящему сбалансированная система, чтобы суммирование можно было выполнять на громкоговорителе при подключении к PA5. MOTU обеспечивает это, а Audient — нет.
Выход на наушники у Audient имеет более высокое выходное сопротивление, чем у MOTU, если это важно для вас. Аудиент имеет тенденцию работать намного горячее. Это может быть очень заметно, если вы любите держать руку на регуляторе громкости. Audient ограничен 24 бит 96 кГц, а MOTU ограничен 24 бит 192 кГц, если это важно для вас.
Я не могу комментировать ADC, потому что я использовал их только для случайных встреч в ZOOM. Я также не могу комментировать звук или мощность усилителей для наушников, потому что использую динамики.
Это все, о чем я могу думать прямо сейчас. Удачи в вашем решении!

I think you will be happy with either but I have an Audient ID14 MKII and a MOTU M4 on my desk now. They are mostly used for the DAC to power a Topping PA5 amplifier. There are a few drawbacks to the Audient that may or may not be important to you. The MOTU M4 has a true balanced output and a properly summed single-ended output as well. The Audient ID14 MKII has only a pseudo balanced output to a set of TRS connectors. The Audient uses a resistive balancing technique and is not fully balanced from the DAC. It also only has about 3v max output. The MOTU provides up to 5.2v.
In my own use, I wanted a true balanced system so that the summing could be done at the loudspeaker when connected to the PA5. The MOTU provides this and the Audient doesn't.
The headphone output of the Audient has a higher output impedance than the MOTU if that matters to you. The Audient tends to run a lot hotter. It can be very noticeable if you like to rest your hand on the volume control. The Audient is limited to 24bit 96khz and the MOTU is limited to 24bit 192khz if that is important to you.
I can't comment on the ADC, because I have only used them for an occasional ZOOM meeting. I also can't comment on the sound or power of the headphone amplifiers because I use speakers.
That's all I can think of right now. Good luck with your decision!
Hello. I am faced with the choice of one of these sound cards: ID14MKII or M4 I read on the forum that you have both. Help with the choice please.
The main direction is listening to music and working with sound inside the computer (without recording), what would you advise? And is it true that the ID14 has less bass in the sound than the M4?
 

cajadas

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Hello. I am faced with the choice of one of these sound cards: ID14MKII or M4 I read on the forum that you have both. Help with the choice please.
The main direction is listening to music and working with sound inside the computer (without recording), what would you advise? And is it true that the ID14 has less bass in the sound than the M4?
ID14 MKII.
 

JeffGB

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Hello. I am faced with the choice of one of these sound cards: ID14MKII or M4 I read on the forum that you have both. Help with the choice please.
The main direction is listening to music and working with sound inside the computer (without recording), what would you advise? And is it true that the ID14 has less bass in the sound than the M4?
For absolute performance and flexibility I would recommend the M4. The Audient is also very nice but doesn't have the full differential output. The M4 has both single ended and differential output. The only downside to the MOTU M4, in theory, is the slight IMD/noise hump that the ID14MKII doesn't have but the audibility of that measurement deficiency has never been proven.

I would not say that the Audient has less bass to the sound. It does have a "warmer" sound signature than the MOTU but in my use, with a Topping PA5 amp, I prefer the MOTU for it's ability to delineate a complex mix clearly. This last comment is a subjective only assessment. I may be biased, although I own both and originally thought I would prefer the Audient (because I was concerned about the IMD hump with the MOTU). I keep returning to the MOTU but your taste, state of mind, and associated equipment may push you in a different direction.
 

Hubilgan

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The Audient ID14 MKII has only a pseudo balanced output to a set of TRS connectors. The Audient uses a resistive balancing technique and is not fully balanced from the DAC.
Hello.
This message of yours caused me confusion and disrupted my plans to purchase the device.
Could you tell me where I can learn more about this.
Thanks in advance.
P.S. I apologize for possible mistakes. My English with translator.
 

Blumlein 88

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Hello.
This message of yours caused me confusion and disrupted my plans to purchase the device.
Could you tell me where I can learn more about this.
Thanks in advance.
P.S. I apologize for possible mistakes. My English with translator.
It really is impedance balanced.
This will explain it. No reason to worry.

Many devices both cheap and pro grade use this type of output. The most notable maybe being Neumann microphones. Any of their transformerless condenser microphones use this arrangement to output the mic signal to the mic preamp.

Here is an excerpt from the Audient ID14 mk II manual.

Speaker Outputs.

id14 has two pairs of stereo speaker outputs on the back panel in the form of balanced TRS jack connectors.
The outputs are impedance balanced using the same topology as our flagship console the ASP8024.


The ASP8024 is a full sized studio recording console with 60 channels costing about $75k.
 
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Hubilgan

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It really is impedance balanced.
This will explain it. No reason to worry.

Many devices both cheap and pro grade use this type of output. The most notable maybe being Neumann microphones. Any of their transformerless condenser microphones use this arrangement to output the mic signal to the mic preamp.

Here is an excerpt from the Audient ID14 mk II manual.

Speaker Outputs.

id14 has two pairs of stereo speaker outputs on the back panel in the form of balanced TRS jack connectors.
The outputs are impedance balanced using the same topology as our flagship console the ASP8024.


The ASP8024 is a full sized studio recording console with 60 channels costing about $75k.
Thank You very much.
This is another coin in my piggy bank of knowledge. :)
Do I understand correctly that a fully balanced Topping A90 type amplifier, when connected to this interface, will fully preserve its balanced topology?
 

Blumlein 88

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Thank You very much.
This is another coin in my piggy bank of knowledge. :)
Do I understand correctly that a fully balanced Topping A90 type amplifier, when connected to this interface, will fully preserve its balanced topology?
Fully preserve can get into some semantics in a way. What it will do is preserve the nature of the balanced connection rejecting common mode noise and will not adversely effect the accuracy of the signal you will get form the Topping A90 by feeding it with this type of connection.
 
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