New headphones next to HD599

[Riez1984]

I would suggest you go a different route, you have experienced open back dynamics.. try now a closed back planar

Thanks for the suggestion. I might do that the next round. But I cannot really see myself going back to closed back. I must say I really like the 560s so far. My untrained ears can hear the difference vs the HD599 in the details.

 

[Robin L]

Thanks for the suggestion. I might do that the next round. But I cannot really see myself going back to closed back. I must say I really like the 560s so far. My untrained ears can hear the difference vs the HD599 in the details.

Glad to hear that the 560s work out for you. The biggest problem I have with the HD 599 is that lack of focus on top, coupled to all that bloat in the mid-bass/lower midrange.

 

[Riez1984]

Yeah they really sound better to me. Think these will do fine for me for the coming time. Have so far only listener on my phone but will plug them in my DAC later and also try so gaming.

 

[moosso]

HD560s has less mid bass (relatively high treble), it will feel more "detailed" than HD599, HD599 is soft and relaxed so I use it for movie without any EQ but not music, plus the sound stage is decent. HD599SE (Amazon version) is about $100 in the Prime or Cyber Monday sales, I think it's not that bad if you could get it at this price point. Anyway good to see that 560S doesn't have comfort issue with you.

 

[Riez1984]

HD560s has less mid bass (relatively high treble), it will feel more "detailed" than HD599, HD599 is soft and relaxed so I use it for movie without any EQ but not music, plus the sound stage is decent. HD599SE (Amazon version) is about $100 in the Prime or Cyber Monday sales, I think it's not that bad if you could get it at this price point. Anyway good to see that 560S doesn't have comfort issue with you.

Yes, I got the HD599 as an open box deal from Sennheiser for €85 last year so i cant complain and my wife will use them as she is just a casual listener and ill use them for my xbox games when the kid is sleeping, they are great for that.

 

[id.ray]

An nice alternative can be the qudelix 5K, an amazing little box with PEQ and the same power output as BTR5

I'm really interested in the btr5 due to it unfolding mqa ... I have to admit I'm a believer, after all my comparisons of streaming services. im hoping the 5 gets revued soon

 

[Doodski]

The biggest problem I have with the HD 599 is that lack of focus on top, coupled to all that bloat in the mid-bass/lower midrange.

I found the same and EQ'd radically by ear to get the top end and mids under control.

 

[Robin L]

I found the same and EQ'd radically by ear to get the top end and mids under control.
View attachment 163485

The missus has 'em and I don't want 'em back.

 

[Robbo99999]

I found the same and EQ'd radically by ear to get the top end and mids under control.
View attachment 163485

I think that EQ is crazy!

 

[Riez1984]

As much as I love them I'm returning them in favor of a pair of HD660s... Refurb deal for €279,- at Sennheiser.

 

[Blew]

As much as I love them I'm returning them in favor of a pair of HD660s... Refurb deal for €279,- at Sennheiser.

How did you like the HD660S?
I have both the 599SE and 660S. and find the 660S is leagues better in frequency response. Applying the Oratory1990 Harman curve EQ makes them even better. The main issue I have is they are incredibly unforgiving of poorly mastered music, which makes listening to poorly mastered music very painful. So I'm trying to EQ the 599SE to to have a similar frequency response to the 660S, but am not having much luck. The Oratory1990 Harman curve EQ for the 599SE still doesn't sound anything like that of the 660S.

 

[solderdude]

Could be that your HRTF is not similar to that of the fixture Oratory used to make the FR plots.
As the HD599 has angled drivers and HD660S does not you might perceive both headphones differently when the target EQ for both headphones is based on a different HRTF than yours.
So on your ears the response is not as 'flat' as the simulations suggest.

HD560S and HD599 are the same in construction so are say HD650 and HD660S.
These mostly differ in driver and damping so EQ can more easily make them sound very similar.

Also the measurements made where the EQ is based on is averaged (seatings and or copies of the same model) so tolerances and production spread can also be a reason why the 'exact' EQ might not lead to the exact same sound quality.

Also there is a difference in driver quality between the headphones.
To visualize... the HE-1 sounds incredible as is. Now, even if it were possible to EQ a HD201 to the exact same frequency response as the HE-1 it still will not sound like the HE-1
It will be tonally similar but the impulse response will still be different (membrane mass, shape and size and acoustic tuning) and thus the HD201 will still not have the same high quality sound as the HE-1.
EQ cannot solve everything. It can improve tonality though which is by far the biggest contributor to sound quality but not the only one.

 

[Blew]

Could be that your HRTF is not similar to that of the fixture Oratory used to make the FR plots.
As the HD599 has angled drivers and HD660S does not you might perceive both headphones differently when the target EQ for both headphones is based on a different HRTF than yours.
So on your ears the response is not as 'flat' as the simulations suggest.

Thanks, I've just learned what HRTF is!
How are the 599 drivers angled? That's interesting. Does that affect specific head shapes?
After reading this I tried moving the cans around my ears but it didn't seem to affect the sound much, definitely nowhere near as much as the difference between the EQ'd 599 and 660S. Holding my hands over the cans made a far bigger difference by making them more closed.

HD560S and HD599 are the same in construction so are say HD650 and HD660S.
These mostly differ in driver and damping so EQ can more easily make them sound very similar.

Also the measurements made where the EQ is based on is averaged (seatings and or copies of the same model) so tolerances and production spread can also be a reason why the 'exact' EQ might not lead to the exact same sound quality.

Also there is a difference in driver quality between the headphones.
To visualize... the HE-1 sounds incredible as is. Now, even if it were possible to EQ a HD201 to the exact same frequency response as the HE-1 it still will not sound like the HE-1
It will be tonally similar but the impulse response will still be different (membrane mass, shape and size and acoustic tuning) and thus the HD201 will still not have the same high quality sound as the HE-1.
EQ cannot solve everything. It can improve tonality though which is by far the biggest contributor to sound quality but not the only one.

Yes I wouldn't expect the HD599 to sound anywhere near as good as the HD660S, but that's half the point. The HD599s don't sound as detailed, which is a good thing when you're trying to ignore artifacts in poorly recorded or mastered music. It seem to have more bass than the 660S however, which is also a plus. So I am just trying to make the 599 frequency response sound similar to the 660S, but with a little extra bass.

I find it strange that the Oratory EQ settings for both don't sound anywhere near the same. Would there be a very substantial difference in different units or production batches of the same model? Or are mine perhaps faulty in some way?

 

[solderdude]

How are the 599 drivers angled? That's interesting. Does that affect specific head shapes?

The baffle it is mounted on is angled. Same construction as the HD560S.

Does that affect specific head shapes?

It does affect ear shapes more so than not angled headphones.

After reading this I tried moving the cans around my ears but it didn't seem to affect the sound much, definitely nowhere near as much as the difference between the EQ'd 599 and 660S. Holding my hands over the cans made a far bigger difference by making them more closed.

As can be expected. However you cannot de-angle the HD599 and angle the HD660S.

Holding your hands over the cups kind-of turns them in (semi) closed headphones. This makes the sound very different.

So I am just trying to make the 599 frequency response sound similar to the 660S, but with a little extra bass.

You can do that by damping the rear side of the HD599 driver which requires opening them up and applying the right amount of damping in strategic places.
Not easy to do and requires measurements.
Or you can apply some EQ.
And even then they won't sound the same as the drivers are quite different.

I find it strange that the Oratory EQ settings for both don't sound anywhere near the same.

I don't. Chances are (pad condition and product variances not withstanding) that with the applied EQ they might measure quite similar on Oratory's test fixture (with the averaging he does) but that does not mean they will 'measure' the same on your ears as your ears, with a high degree of certainty, do not comply to the standards used in his measurement fixture.

People assume an industry standard fixture and measurement protocol used will provide the absolute reality. In reality it is merely an indication valid for that particular test fixture ONLY and also to the applied (and basically not accurate) target where it is put up against.
Your ears and ears of others are not the same. Above several kHz your ears may differ many dB's.
Below 100Hz your situation (not applicable for your headphones) may also differ.
Between 100Hz and a few kHz the standard measurements should be fairly close to most ears. Tonality is mostly determined within that band but certainly also below 100Hz and above 5 or 6kHz which may very likely be the main reason why headphones are heard differently despite being somewhat closely matched (within a few dB) within that bandwidth.

The professional guys doing those measurements are all well aware of the limitation but the audience wants 'something they can use' and indeed it does bring the response closer together..... just not the same. That is not possible.

Measure the same headphone on various test fixtures (they can even conform to certain industry standards) and or with a variation of available pinna and or couplers, use different targets and or test protocols or even smoothing and you will come up with many different EQ's. One of them might be closest to your personal hearing than others but are most likely not fitting exactly...

The fortunate thing is that it really is not that important to be able to enjoy music.
Your hearing is highly adaptable and does not really care if it slightly 'off'.
This means most of these EQ's are 'good enough' and provide improvements in tonality.
It's just when you compare them AND have level matched the headphones before comparing (VERY important aspect when comparing headphones) you might still be able to detect differences.

In the vast majority of cases where someone 'compares' headphones the level differences (all headphones have a different sensitivity) are most likely causes by level differences.

I have no way to tell which is the culprit in your personal case (or which combination of effects)

 

[solderdude]

One's 'highly detailed' sound is another's 'sharp' or 'harsh' sound.