New Gustard R30 Flagship DAC/Streamer

[voodooless]

Let me know if I'm missing something.

Yes! You’re missing the part where you should remove biases. That is my whole point all along. Even if the difference is audible. You should still remove biases when making a preference judgement. It all very nice that you’re ridiculing the process, but it’s time and time evident that these measure are vital for making objective judgements.

And mind you, you’re not just claiming differences between NOS and DS, you’re also claiming obvious differences between other perfectly well functioning DACs. And extrapolating from that, I have to perceive any judgement with extreme caution.

Observation IS empirical evidence, it just requires leaning into the field of statistics.

For example, if you're investigating "too hot" in the context of McDonald's coffee:

• If 1 person says its "too hot," a single sample size is too small to make a conclusion.
• If 8 of the first 10 people surveyed say it "too hot," you can only conclude "possibly too hot, with low certainty."
• If 980 people out of the 1000 people surveyed say the coffee is too hot, then you can objectively say "the coffee is too hot, with a statistical correlation close to +1."

But NOS DACs are not preffered by 980 out of a 1000 people, are they?In fact, NOS was always seen as a compromise and quickly disappeared when technology caught up and better became available. Only when some boutique brands brought it back it again caught on in some circles, under the guise of different is better.

 

[IronPyrite]

And yet he doesn't describe how they sound. Doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit?

And yet he doesn't say all DACs sound alike. Doesn't that make you wonder just a bit?

 

[voodooless]

And yet he doesn't say all DACs sound alike

Nobody in their right mind does… it’s a straw man. It’s all competently designed DAC sound the same, I’m sure Amir would agree with that.

 

[Svend P]

And yet he doesn't say all DACs sound alike. Doesn't that make you wonder just a bit?

You're acting in bad faith.

I have a scale for how much measurements matter for each category of products:

DACs: 100%
Amplifiers (headphone and speaker): 80 to 90% due to variability of available power. Hard to internalize how much power is available/enough without listening tests.
Speakers: 70 to 80%
Headphones: 50 to 80% (measurements too variable)

This is why you see me do listening tests for the last two categories and half of second (headphone amps).

Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?

Seems like so many review threads get challenged with: 1. Measurements are not everything. 2. You all never listen. 3. I trust my ears, not graphs. 4. I don't listen to graphs. I listen to music. 5. You all must not listen to music at all. 6. Why don't you all buy the best SINAD gear? 7...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Snoopy]

Nobody in their right mind does… it’s a straw man. It’s all competently designed DAC sound the same, I’m sure Amir would agree with that.

You would be surprised how many people with tinnitus and substantial hearing loss are among the biggest contributors about sound differences between loudspeakers, dacs and even cables.

Wonder how much their opinion should be valued.

I also know someone with 300 $ loudspeakers and multiple 3K SACD players that hears the tiniest differences between them.

 

[voodooless]

You would be surprised how many people with tinnitus and substantial hearing loss are among the biggest contributors about sound differences between loudspeakers, dacs and even cables.

I’m not… most people on these forums are old farts But differences in loudspeakers aren’t that strange. They measure orders of magnitude more differently than electronics. But even there biases prevail. Slight difference here is that you also have to look at the damn things, so the visual appeal is often an important factor.

 

[Mike123]

and reminds me of the all-analogue equipment of my youth

The last thing I want is for my modern equipment to sound like the equipment of my youth .

 

[boXem]

The last thing I want is for my modern equipment to sound like the equipment of my youth .

Thank you!
This

was not really HiFi.

 

[Purité Audio]

‘The posters over at head-fi may be talking about the smell of rainbows, but at least their main focus is on enjoying the hobby and having a good time.’
That isn’t my idea of a good time but if it’s yours have at it.
Keith

 

[IronPyrite]

Thank you!
This

was not really HiFi.

I had a toy push truck that slid along a groove with a record needle on the bottom that would say "fire...fire."

I've never seen one of those record players, it must have been a Europe only market product. Probably a better design for kids, since they didn't have to interact with the needle.

 

[IronPyrite]

‘The posters over at head-fi may be talking about the smell of rainbows, but at least their main focus is on enjoying the hobby and having a good time.’
That isn’t my idea of a good time but if it’s yours have at it.
Keith

Most of the people here are great to converse with, Keith, just 2 negative interactions, which led to recency bias.

The first contributor, the smarter of the two by a wide margin, is likely on the autistic spectrum, and I feel bad that it took me so long to notice. Retroactively no harm, no foul, we're friends moving forward. The second contributor probably watched the security staff at the mall hassle people when they were younger and said, "I want to be like that when I grow up," and here we are.

 

[Purité Audio]

Every man interested in hi-fi is on the spectrum. On other forums anecdote is welcomed and probably even applauded not the case here.

Keith

 

[Svend P]

Most of the people here are great to converse with, Keith, just 2 negative interactions, which led to recency bias.

The first contributor, the smarter of the two by a wide margin, is likely on the autistic spectrum, and I feel bad that it took me so long to notice. Retroactively no harm, no foul, we're friends moving forward. The second contributor probably watched the security staff at the mall hassle people when they were younger and said, "I want to be like that when I grow up," and here we are.

So when we don't agree with you, we are all mean? You do know it is a site for science, right?

"But please be mindful of bringing ideas to ASR that are not grounded in proper audio science and engineering will be met with pushback. Nothing wrong with saying you like the sound of this and that gear. But insisting that such an experience overrides what we are about, is going to get you a lot of flak. You will be asked to provide sound evidence and if you can’t, you will get crunched in the gears of ASR."

Audio Science Review FAQ #1

This is the first in a series of FAQs for Audio Science Review. 1. Who created Audio Science Review? The founder is Amir Majidimehr. You can find out more about me by clicking on my background link in my signature. Briefly, I have had a long career in computing, audio, video and imaging...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Vos]

For me both could and should go hand in hand to get the best impression of a device.
When a few people have similar sound experiences it could be very meaningful/helpful for many of us.
For example, the new Topping D900 measures excellent and I’m quite a Topping fan, I like the design and price but I steered away because I needed more body/weight in my system. All the reviews point in the same direction, speed, fast transients, air, detail but not the fullest sounding. So still a great dac in many system but not what I’m looking for.

While staying critical I find it very interesting to retrieve this information from the reviews and lay it next to the measurements..

 

[IronPyrite]

So when we don't agree with you, we are all mean? You do know it is a site for science, right?

"But please be mindful of bringing ideas to ASR that are not grounded in proper audio science and engineering will be met with pushback. Nothing wrong with saying you like the sound of this and that gear. But insisting that such an experience overrides what we are about, is going to get you a lot of flak. You will be asked to provide sound evidence and if you can’t, you will get crunched in the gears of ASR."

Audio Science Review FAQ #1

This is the first in a series of FAQs for Audio Science Review. 1. Who created Audio Science Review? The founder is Amir Majidimehr. You can find out more about me by clicking on my background link in my signature. Briefly, I have had a long career in computing, audio, video and imaging...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Disagreement is fine, don't give it a second thought @Svend P. I will limit my conversation for DACs to 100% objective measurements moving forwards, and the allowable subjective percentiles set by Amir for amplifiers, speakers, and headphones.

 

[voodooless]

For example, the new Topping D900 measures excellent and I’m quite a Topping fan, I like the design and price but I steered away because I needed more body/weight in my system. All the reviews point in the same direction, speed, fast transients, air, detail but not the fullest sounding.

It’s just utter nonsense. This DAC is as transparent as most others.

While staying critical I find it very interesting to retrieve this information from the reviews and lay it next to the measurements..

And then what? The only conclusion that you can possibly come at is that the reviewers are full of it.

 

[Chagall]

For me both could and should go hand in hand to get the best impression of a device.
When a few people have similar sound experiences it could be very meaningful/helpful for many of us.
For example, the new Topping D900 measures excellent and I’m quite a Topping fan, I like the design and price but I steered away because I needed more body/weight in my system. All the reviews point in the same direction, speed, fast transients, air, detail but not the fullest sounding. So still a great dac in many system but not what I’m looking for.

While staying critical I find it very interesting to retrieve this information from the reviews and lay it next to the measurements..

While it’s reasonable to look at various sources and gather information, if a few reviewers claim the D900 isn’t the "fullest sounding", but another equally transparent DAC is - despite measurable differences being far below the threshold of human hearing - then that reviewers need to explain this. Otherwise, they’re describing their perception, not DACs.

 

[Cbdb2]

But because you know it has some ingenious internal complexity.

Like what? Anything that actual makes it sound better than dozens of other DACs that cost 1/10 the price? Or just a bunch of useless complexity used as marketing to audiophools, which is obviously working.

 

[Cbdb2]

@Beave
Don't be ridiculous.
I, of course, did all my listening at exactly the same volume, measured with a sound level meter calibrated to a frequency of 1 kHz, the level meter positioned where my ears would be.

And it's my ears that should be satisfied, not the measuring instruments.
You're one of those people who likes impressive numbers.
I like music.
Everyone has their own choices.

Actualy we all like music thats why we are here. We also like proof not imagination. You offer zero proof.

 

[Cbdb2]

And like most religions, many here seem to be trying to

Convert non believers with fairy tales and personal anecdotes and blind them with shiny gold, (sound familiar?) where as the audio SCIENCE people use physics, electronics knowledge, measurements and the scientific method.