New Gustard R30 Flagship DAC/Streamer

[mocenigo]

This seems to be quite fresh, an update to the R26. https://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2376860&extra=page=1

 

[Mike_Trueman]

Just sounds the same like the smsl su1.

The link is not working for me. Here is another one.

Gustard R30 R2R 27BIT DAC

INTRODUCING THE FLAGSHIP GUSTARD R30 R2R 27BIT DAC Since 2021, AfterDark. introduce the new Giesemann 10M Master Clock. Most customers is already impressed with the improvement for UpTone EtherREGEN. This year 2022, most DAC in the market is introducing the new 10M Master Clock input for...

www.adark.co

 

[James. B. Lansing]

This is a fake listing by the way, R30 not officially released yet

 

[Mike_Trueman]

This is a fake listing by the way, R30 not officially released yet

It's called pre-order.

 

[Nutul]

27 bit? Ho-ly-cow. @ 23 hundred EUR I think nowadays everybody could do it (that is, almost everybody - I call myself out of the game, of course)

 

[nerekan]

FIRE! Already ordered.

 

[mocenigo]

Just sounds the same like the smsl su1.

The link is not working for me. Here is another one.

Gustard R30 R2R 27BIT DAC

INTRODUCING THE FLAGSHIP GUSTARD R30 R2R 27BIT DAC Since 2021, AfterDark. introduce the new Giesemann 10M Master Clock. Most customers is already impressed with the improvement for UpTone EtherREGEN. This year 2022, most DAC in the market is introducing the new 10M Master Clock input for...

www.adark.co

Thank you. For some reason, the https://www.erji.net domain can no longer ne reached from my side as well...

 

[mocenigo]

27 bit? Ho-ly-cow. @ 23 hundred EUR I think nowadays everybody could do it (that is, almost everybody - I call myself out of the game, of course)

Now €3146,95 EUR ????

 

[Nutul]

Now €3146,95 EUR ????

Sorry, no.
I remain with my über-expensive Eversolo Z8...

A NOS R2R DAC at that price is pure nonsense. Actually, R2R DACs are already pure nonsense, unless they cost 50 buck or so, that is...

 

[mocenigo]

Sorry, no.
I remain with my über-expensive Eversolo Z8...

A NOS R2R DAC at that price is pure nonsense. Actually, R2R DACs are already pure nonsense, unless they cost 50 buck or so, that is...

It is a bit like owning an expensive mechanical watch. You do not buy it because it is supposed to measure time better (it doesn't). But because you know it has some ingenious internal complexity.

 

[mocenigo]

Weird that they claim THD+N at -124Db at 1Khz, and then they show a graph which is everywhere at -97Db. I need to have another look at the graphs and their descriptions.

 

[Nutul]

It is a bit like owning an expensive mechanical watch. You do not buy it because it is supposed to measure time better (it doesn't). But because you know it has some ingenious internal complexity.

You are somehow right. BUT. I buy an expensive watch for its looks. I buy an expensive DAC for its work. I bought my Z8 because of both its looks and its works.
Resistor ladders have no magic, or super-duper-ingenious engineering in them... it's technology of the past, as it is vinyl, hence spending high numbers on such tech is a waste. of everything.
A good R2R DAC nowadays could (and should) cost no more than 250 USD. 10 to 15 times that is a theft.

 

[mocenigo]

You are somehow right. BUT. I buy an expensive watch for its looks. I buy an expensive DAC for its work. I bought my Z8 because of both its looks and its works.
Resistor ladders have no magic, or super-duper-ingenious engineering in them... it's technology of the past, as it is vinyl, hence spending high numbers on such tech is a waste. of everything.

One could argue that an expensive mechanical watch is also a waste, but here we find the actual limit of my argument: such a mechanical watch is an investment, and its value may even increase with time, not so for a DAC.

The problem is that some people buy very expensive DACs thinking that they just have some magic, and this justifies the unavoidable depreciation.

A good R2R DAC nowadays could (and should) cost no more than 250 USD. 10 to 15 times that is a theft.

I disagree, the *discrete* R2R DACs have more components, and takes more time to assemble them even with assembly robots. There is no way they can cost only 250USD. I think the cheapest Soekris DACs are close the smallest price that makes sense, and they are about 400USD, same for the Shanling EH2 — less than that and I am not sure they can be financially viable.

 

[Nutul]

Now I too agree on almost everything. 400 seems to be an acceptable "lowest" price, which we can round up to 500, if you like... this still makes 3k a theft, you may agree.
And IMHO R2R DACs cannot compete with SD ones. It's just like vinyl. No value added; just nostalgia and lack of technical knowledge.
Nevertheless, a short chat always helps, at the end of the day. Cheers mate.

 

[mocenigo]

Now I too agree on almost everything. 400 seems to be an acceptable "lowest" price, which we can round up to 500, if you like... this still makes 3k a theft, you may agree.
And IMHO R2R DACs cannot compete with SD ones. It's just like vinyl. No value added; just nostalgia and lack of technical knowledge.
Nevertheless, a short chat always helps, at the end of the day. Cheers mate.

Of course one can also find cheaper things from China, like this one https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009016154388.html
I have no idea how it sounds, but it is *cute*.

 

[Nutul]

One may just need to do three things (and the first 2 are optional):
1. measure it
2. listen to it in a DBX test and make a decision.
3. chose a modern stylish performing SD USB DAC of choice and be happy.

 

[Alain07]

Shouldn't you wait until this R30 is released before denigrating it?

I extensively tested the three Gustard DACs in the 26 series:
- the X26 based on the ESS chip
- the A26 based on the AKM chip
- the R26 based on an R2R network

These three devices were connected in the same way, on one side to a streamer and on the other to a Class D amplifier.

I quickly eliminated the X26; it was too artificial and not at all natural. The instruments didn't sound like real instruments at all. Listening was painful, and I couldn't listen to music for more than 30 minutes.

The A26 has the same flaws as the X26, but they're much less pronounced, which makes it enjoyable.

But the R26 has none of these flaws. It doesn't invent notes or overplay the music. It's the music as it was recorded. No gimmicks, no fake "details."
To my ears (which go to a concert once a week), the R26 is by far the most lifelike of the three.

 

[Svend P]

Shouldn't you wait until this R30 is released before denigrating it?

I extensively tested the three Gustard DACs in the 26 series:
- the X26 based on the ESS chip
- the A26 based on the AKM chip
- the R26 based on an R2R network

These three devices were connected in the same way, on one side to a streamer and on the other to a Class D amplifier.

I quickly eliminated the X26; it was too artificial and not at all natural. The instruments didn't sound like real instruments at all. Listening was painful, and I couldn't listen to music for more than 30 minutes.

The A26 has the same flaws as the X26, but they're much less pronounced, which makes it enjoyable.

But the R26 has none of these flaws. It doesn't invent notes or overplay the music. It's the music as it was recorded. No gimmicks, no fake "details."
To my ears (which go to a concert once a week), the R26 is by far the most lifelike of the three.

This is a unicorn moment. You literally are posting on ASR for the first time as per the title in the thread below. But sorry, all DAC's sound the same. If you did a controlled blind test, you would find that the differences disappear.

'Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...'

Nov 17, 2020

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You bought the cables and the little bridge thingies for them to sit upon and the benefits were magical. You bought the $1000 IEMs that only truly sang after 250 hours of burn-in. Not 200 hours...or 225 hours, but 250 hours! It must be that for the magic to appear! You converted...

• Sgt. Ear Ache
• Replies: 3,945
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

• 

'How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?'

Oct 4, 2019

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE, IMAGING, and MIDRANGE of a DAC? I actually don't know what to say to people to not be rude. If you try explaining that a DAC isn't something that actually changes the sound, they accuse you of having "a hard-on for measurements", as if it were the measurements themselves that tell you that DACs don't...

• Willhelm_Scream
• Replies: 10,921
• Forum: DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface

• 

 

[Beave]

Shouldn't you wait until this R30 is released before denigrating it?

I extensively tested the three Gustard DACs in the 26 series:
- the X26 based on the ESS chip
- the A26 based on the AKM chip
- the R26 based on an R2R network

These three devices were connected in the same way, on one side to a streamer and on the other to a Class D amplifier.

I quickly eliminated the X26; it was too artificial and not at all natural. The instruments didn't sound like real instruments at all. Listening was painful, and I couldn't listen to music for more than 30 minutes.

The A26 has the same flaws as the X26, but they're much less pronounced, which makes it enjoyable.

But the R26 has none of these flaws. It doesn't invent notes or overplay the music. It's the music as it was recorded. No gimmicks, no fake "details."
To my ears (which go to a concert once a week), the R26 is by far the most lifelike of the three.

Great! Can you share the results of your tests?

You did mean tests, right? And not just sighted, non-level-matched listening? Right?

 

[Alain07]

There have always been people who always say YES and people who always say NO, people who always agree and people who are systematically "against."
All of this is seriously lacking in nuance.

If your ears can't tell the difference between an MP3 listened to while jogging with your smartphone and headphones and a FLAC listened to in an auditorium with a coherent system, you're right, all DACs sound the same.

But if you're able to put yourself in favorable listening conditions and hear nuances, then you'll discover music in all its nuances and you'll hear differences between different systems. Some you'll like, others less, but that's a matter of taste, not nuance.

You shouldn't say:
"All DACs sound the same."
You should say:
"I've never heard any difference between a €200 DAC and a €3,000 DAC."
It would be more honest for the readers.