New Genelec Main Monitor

[ssashton]

Now you’ve got me imagining coaxial Genelec live-sound systems - big arrays of 8381 style coaxials with shaded 6" or 8" lower mids. Almost like a MEH design, but without the diffraction and destructive interference issues. Maybe I’d end up enjoying live sound after all, haha.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Who is going to send one to Amir or Erin?(puts finger on nose)

 

[ssashton]

So does this new 8380 also use a different tweeter design compared to the 8381? If I remember right, the 8381’s coaxial has a compression chamber in front of the tweeter with a 13 mm exit, while this one looks more like a direct radiator—apart from the large waveguide it’s sitting in.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I can tell you something. Carbon fibre diaphragm was developed for 8380A and 8381A coaxials to minimize the moving mass and still maintain the structural stiffness to avoid break-up modes and distortion in the midrange band. Minimizing the moving mass improves the efficiency of the driver which is required for these very high SPL models. At the same time, steeper cone angle of the midrange driver did not allow us to use the materials and design which have been successfully used in the smaller Ones range coaxial drivers. This does not mean either material, carbon fibre or aluminium, is superior to each other, both result in very good performance in their respected designs and will continue to live side by side in our product offering.

Why is the woofer different in 8380 in comparison to 1238?
What material is it?

 

[Tovarich007]

Speaking of the tweeter now, it's indeed a direct dome tweeter. But is it the same model used in The Ones series ?
And what it is made of ? aluminium, beryllium, other alloy ?
The specs indicate it can go up to 43 kHz at -6dB, which is one full octave higher than 20 khz. That's a massively impressive figure even if 40 khz is inaudible !

 

[dagfinn]

Seen through a form-follows-function lens, imo it is an incredibly elegant design.



I think the 8480A would work quite well at distances much shorter than 3 meters, as the ear's ability to localize vertically starts decreasing below about 1.5 kHz and will be relatively poor by the time

Absolutely elegant, and I agree, I think 2 metres is fine.

we get to the crossover between the coaxial cone and woofer. So even though the center-to-center vertical distance between the coaxial and cone is probably around fifteen inches, that may well go completely unnoticed even at unusually small listening distance. Hopefully @Ilkka Rissanen will comment.

Dome to dome edge distance= 15" cone diameter.

Acoustic axis is closer to the woofer than 1238a...

 

[JaapD]

However, the vertical directivity isn't that great at the cross-over frequency between low and mid driver around 470 Hz. Comparing 8380a against 1238a we can see that the distance between low and mid drivers has increased. Look at the following resulting graph:

 

[Ilkka Rissanen]

So does this new 8380 also use a different tweeter design compared to the 8381? If I remember right, the 8381’s coaxial has a compression chamber in front of the tweeter with a 13 mm exit, while this one looks more like a direct radiator—apart from the large waveguide it’s sitting in.

8380A coax has a direct radiating 1 in / 25 mm dome tweeter (aluminium diaphragm) while 8381A has a compression driver. This is due to maximum SPL requirements of each design.

Operating manual: https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...nelec_8380A_Main_Monitor_Operating_Manual.pdf

 

[Neadych]

How is the 8380 woofer better than the 1238?

 

[Ilkka Rissanen]

How is the 8380 woofer better than the 1238?

Better linearity, lower distortion. Much improved reflex port design also helps with reducing distortion, air chuffing noises and improves maximum output.

 

[PristineSound]

Damn, $20,500 for the pair.

 

[dfuller]

Why is the woofer different in 8380 in comparison to 1238?
What material is it?

They're both doped paper. One just has stiffening ribs.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Better linearity, lower distortion. Much improved reflex port design also helps with reducing distortion, air chuffing noises and improves maximum output.

Why does S360 has a compression tweeter and the 8380 doesn't as it supposed to have more SPL then S360?

 

[Tovarich007]

Well, I don't want to answer instead of Ilkka Rissanen, but I just point out that these two speakers are not entended to be used in the same configuration : the 8380 is a big verstaile monitor mainly used soffit mounted, the S360 is used in open space mainly for multi speakers audiovideo broadcast or production studios. It's probably more difficult to obtain the same dynamics and energy with a dome tweeter in such cases.

As it has beeen observed, the very large line up of Genelec speakers is able to cover numerous specific situations in variuos pro domains. The technical solutions are different, because the specific needs are different.

In some cases, the S360 is over all the best choice., in other cases it could be the large main monitor 8380, and for another one it could be The Ones series.

In the pro industry, there is no "best solution" in absolute terms, but there is "the most adequate solution" for a particular task in a particular situation and space. Genelec is particularly good and regognized for covering a lot of various requests with high quality offerings.

That's a quite a different approach than the music lover or audiophile quest for the overall best quality

 

[Neadych]

Well, I don't want to answer instead of Ilkka Rissanen, but I just point out that these two speakers are not entended to be used in the same configuration : the 8380 is a big verstaile monitor mainly used soffit mounted, the S360 is used in open space mainly for multi speakers audiovideo broadcast or production studios. It's probably more difficult to obtain the same dynamics and energy with a dome tweeter in such cases.

As it has beeen observed, the very large line up of Genelec speakers is able to cover numerous specific situations in variuos pro domains. The technical solutions are different, because the specific needs are different.

In some cases, the S360 is over all the best choice., in other cases it could be the large main monitor 8380, and for another one it could be The Ones series.

In the pro industry, there is no "best solution" in absolute terms, but there is "the most adequate solution" for a particular task in a particular situation and space. Genelec is particularly good and regognized for covering a lot of various requests with high quality offerings.

That's a quite a different approach than the music lover or audiophile quest for the overall best quality

Come on, then the ones and the two-way 83xx series should all have compression tweeters, judging by your logic.

 

[dfuller]

Come on, then the ones and the two-way 83xx series should all have compression tweeters, judging by your logic.

The S360s are specifcically designed to get insanely loud for their size - and they do.

Compare them to the 8361, which is no slouch in the SPL department itself, and at 106dB the 8361 is engaging limiters to protect itself. The S360 just keeps on going. Those sheer SPL capabilities just aren't needed in most scenarios, but you do need them for things like mixing for film where there is easily 20-30dB dynamic swings. THX and Dolby spec both require 20dB peaks over the average 85dB(C) level.

The S360 is a purpose built speaker, though it is a good general purpose design too (we demoed some here for stereo music mixing and were pretty universally loved).

 

[Neadych]

The S360s are specifcically designed to get insanely loud for their size - and they do.

Compare them to the 8361, which is no slouch in the SPL department itself, and at 106dB the 8361 is engaging limiters to protect itself. The S360 just keeps on going. Those sheer SPL capabilities just aren't needed in most scenarios, but you do need them for things like mixing for film where there is easily 20-30dB dynamic swings. THX and Dolby spec both require 20dB peaks over the average 85dB(C) level.

The S360 is a purpose built speaker, though it is a good general purpose design too (we demoed some here for stereo music mixing and were pretty universally loved).

The S360 does not turn off the tweeter, but it does increase distortion.

 

[Blockader]

Why does S360 has a compression tweeter and the 8380 doesn't as it supposed to have more SPL then S360?

The S360 was designed to be paired with the 7382A studio subwoofer system. In this setup, all drivers... the subwoofer, 10-inch woofer, and compression driver have sufficient SPL to match with each other.

 

[Neadych]

The S360 was designed to be paired with the 7382A studio subwoofer system. In this setup, all drivers... the subwoofer, 10-inch woofer, and compression driver have sufficient SPL to match with each other.

8380 will only benefit when working with 7382

 

[kharan]

Why does S360 has a compression tweeter and the 8380 doesn't as it supposed to have more SPL then S360?

My own speculation is that the crossover with the woofer in the S360 is at 1400 Hz whereas it's at about 500 Hz in the 8380. Thus a midrange driver is needed on the 8380. And since we have midrange driver, the tweeter only need to go down to 2500 Hz. This allows a dome tweeter to be used instead of a compression driver.

The S360s are specifcically designed to get insanely loud for their size - and they do.

Compare them to the 8361, which is no slouch in the SPL department itself, and at 106dB the 8361 is engaging limiters to protect itself. The S360 just keeps on going. Those sheer SPL capabilities just aren't needed in most scenarios, but you do need them for things like mixing for film where there is easily 20-30dB dynamic swings. THX and Dolby spec both require 20dB peaks over the average 85dB(C) level.

The S360 is a purpose built speaker, though it is a good general purpose design too (we demoed some here for stereo music mixing and were pretty universally loved).

I wonder if the 8361 engaging limiters is a problem with musical content. In Amir's test, it limits tweeter output above 7500 Hz with a sine wave sweep. With musical content, I think it's more likely that the 8361's limits are reached because the bass driver's limits encountered. The energy content of very high frequencies is often limited.