NEW GaN Amplifier : Dual ACM8816 GaN amplifier chips + AK4118AEQ [YJCO D816]

[Buckeye Amps]

I’m biased and subjective.

Oh, we know

 

[pma]

My problem is that we're writing here in a technical forum. People here tend to trust measurements more than their ears. I don't have a problem with that. I'm just saying that's how it is.

Maybe it is your assumption, or prejudice. Ears are fine, IF you support your "findings" and impressions with the results of a controlled, level matched, double blinded test. If not, then you are talking only about your personal impressions, which may or may not be based on a real sound difference. You never know what is a product of your brains (which is a part of your perception and may evaluate something else than a change in sound stimulus) and what is the product of a real change in the sound.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

At first, I didn't want to answer your question about my 'bias' when it comes to Full Digital Amplifiers. The reason is that I was hoping you would name an analog Class D amplifier and an inexpensive DAC as a concrete (Price) comparison to the Full Digital Amp YJCO D816. You didn't do me that favor, even though it would have been really easy. So I did it myself.

I don't follow your logic. What does my naming a Class D amp + a DAC have to do with you addressing the question of bias?
(by the way it's not your bias. Please don't think I'm singling you out, we all have bias.)

 

[Pausi]

Why True Digital Amplifiers are better than analog ones. The following text excerpts are from

Lyngdorf:

Unlike traditional amplifiers, it eliminates analog conversion until the speaker outputs, using a digital signal to drive speakers directly. This approach, powered by Lyngdorf’s Equibit technology, removes noise, hiss, crosstalk, and distortion, ensuring pristine audio at all volume levels. The innovative volume control adjusts gain in the output stage, preserving signal integrity for a dynamic, uncolored sound experience.

NAD:

DirectDigital is the next step forward, eliminating all analogue circuits completely. With NAD DirectDigital the conversion from digital data stream to electrical waveform occurs right at the speaker output jack of the amplifier; up to that point the signal remains in the digital domain.

DirectDigital. The source material is digital, the signal processing is digital, and the amplification is digital. By removing many layers of analogue circuitry and digital conversions, the music reveals its truevibrancy and intimacy. This is the audio system architecture of the future.

Just marketing blah blah? I dont think so.

Yes it’s pure marketing language. It even says that there is conversion before the speaker output. A speaker is a transducer that converts one form of energy (electrical signals, not digital) to mechanical movements in the tweeters and woofers that push sound waves in the air to our ears. Really quite simple.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Maybe it is your assumption, or prejudice. Ears are fine, IF you support your "findings" and impressions with the results of a controlled, level matched, double blinded test. If not, then you are talking only about your personal impressions, which may or may not be based on a real sound difference. You never know what is a product of your brains (which is a part of your perception and may evaluate something else than a change in sound stimulus) and what is the product of a real change in the sound.

I don’t believe that. I believe in what I wrote. The fact that we don’t agree is no problem.
I also think that there are people reading here who can relate to my thoughts.
I’d like to ask everyone: Has anyone ever done a blind comparison? I mean one like the kind Amir describes in his video. That would interest not only me, i think.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Yes it’s pure marketing language. It even says that there is conversion before the speaker output. A speaker is a transducer that converts one form of energy (electrical signals, not digital) to mechanical movements in the tweeters and woofers that push sound waves in the air to our ears. Really quite simple.

I don't dare to believe that an absolute image high-end company like Lyngdorf would spread marketing lies. It could be possible, but I would find that very cheeky, and if it turns out that they are liars, that would be a significant loss of image. If a company like Lyngdorf (so also Steinway Lyngdorf, those are EVEN MUCH more expensive devices) cannot afford one thing, it is image loss.
The next thing is that someone actually called this amplifier type "Full Digital Amplifiers". I don't know who. Does anyone know?
And finally, why shouldn't digital signals be able to drive a speaker directly? The question is serious, and the truth is, I really don't know. People here in the forum have tried to explain it to me, but I admit that I haven't completely understood it.

 

[Michael Kohler]

I don't follow your logic. What does my naming a Class D amp + a DAC have to do with you addressing the question of bias?
(by the way it's not your bias. Please don't think I'm singling you out, we all have bias.)

It has nothing to do with each other. I just didn't want to answer you because I had asked you to name devices for a price comparison. That would have been really easy. But you didn't.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

And finally, why shouldn't digital signals be able to drive a speaker directly? The question is serious, and the truth is, I really don't know. People here in the forum have tried to explain it to me, but I admit that I haven't completely understood it.

In the most simplest of terms, movement of a speaker driver requires an electrical signal. Which is why no matter what happens, the digital signal has to be converted to analog somewhere before the speaker. Even in a fully active speaker design using a "fully digital" amplifier.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

It has nothing to do with each other. I just didn't want to answer you because I had asked you to name devices for a price comparison. That would have been really easy. But you didn't.

Pot calling the kettle black eh?

 

[Pausi]

I don’t believe that. I believe in what I wrote. The fact that we don’t agree is no problem.
I also think that there are people reading here who can relate to my thoughts.
I’d like to ask everyone: Has anyone ever done a blind comparison? I mean one like the kind Amir describes in his video. That would interest not only me, i think.

This whole thing might have a natural explanation. Double blind tests or ABX comparators with amplifiers that have the same measurements will only show random and non significant results. I don’t doubt that you hear differences between two or more devices if they also measure differently in the audible range. Many badly designed amplifiers and speakers do. That’s doesn’t prove anything. Which one you prefer is up to your own personal taste. Some like tube amplifiers that lack high treble others prefer one with exaggerated or bloated bass. The interesting experiment is to test between two, or 10, different amplifiers from different manufacturers and prices, that all fall in the preferred high end category of being neutral (transparent), load independent and with distortion below audible hearing levels. Amplifiers should be built transparent and load independent. It they are, you have to be Superman to hear any differences.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Oh, we know

"I’ve decided to trust my ears more than the measurements. In that sense, I’m biased and subjective. For some of you."

This is what I actually wrote. You're misquoting me. And I think you're doing it on purpose. I don't have a problem with that. But I'm telling you, it will come back to you.

 

[JustJones]

And finally, why shouldn't digital signals be able to drive a speaker directly?

Steinway Lyngdorf doesn't claim a "digital signal" drives a speaker directly.

Digital signal processing right up to the speaker outputs​

As conventionally defined, the Lyngdorf TDAI and Steinway Lyngdorf power amps do not amplify at all. Instead of a conventional D/A converter in the input stage, true digital amplifiers are digital-to-analog converters with sufficient power (current and voltage) to drive loudspeakers directly. This eliminates hundreds of active and passive components and signal paths in the analog domain, which are a major source of noise, hiss, crosstalk, and distortion. Right up to just before the speaker outputs, the signal processing is handled 100% in its original digital domain, allowing to deliver the full musical potential. This makes more sense than ever, since nowadays almost all music is recorded, produced, distributed and streamed digitally. Only a single coil and capacitor is employed in the output stage to create a 60 kHz second-order low-pass filter, generating the analog signal to drive the loudspeakers. To improve signal purity further, this technology is an open-loop amplifier with zero negative feedback.

Bold mine.

​

https://steinwaylyngdorf.com/fully-digital-systems/

 

[Buckeye Amps]

"I’ve decided to trust my ears more than the measurements. In that sense, I’m biased and subjective. For some of you."

This is what I actually wrote. You're misquoting me. And I think you're doing it on purpose. I don't have a problem with that. But I'm telling you, it will come back to you.

Even with the entire quote we still get it, you are definitely biased and subjective.

 

[Pausi]

"I’ve decided to trust my ears more than the measurements. In that sense, I’m biased and subjective. For some of you."

This is what I actually wrote. You're misquoting me. And I think you're doing it on purpose. I don't have a problem with that. But I'm telling you, it will come back to you.

Why are you even here on ASR if you don’t trust science and measurements? Maybe you should think about joining all the subjective shill Youtubers like Cheapaudioman, Darko Audio or Old Guy Hifi. It’s a pretty tough competition though.

 

[Michael Kohler]

This whole thing might have a natural explanation. Double blind tests or ABX comparators with amplifiers that have the same measurements will only show random and non significant results. I don’t doubt that you hear differences between two or more devices if they also measure differently in the audible range. Many badly designed amplifiers and speakers do. That’s doesn’t prove anything. Which one you prefer is up to your own personal taste. Some like tube amplifiers that lack high treble others prefer one with exaggerated or bloated bass. The interesting experiment is to test between two, or 10, different amplifiers from different manufacturers and prices, that all fall in the preferred high end category of being neutral (transparent), load independent and with distortion below audible hearing levels. Amplifiers should be built transparent and load independent. It they are, you have to be Superman to hear any differences.

I'll answer you with something that happened to me personally.
In Germany, there are internet forums where owners of Chinese amps exchange ideas about what you can do to make them sound even better. Since many Chinese amps have outsourced power supplies, one idea is to replace them. With stronger ones. Exceptionally, the people who have tried it all agree: If you replace the standard power supply with a stronger one, the amp sounds better. That's what everyone writes. I read that and thought to myself: Yeah, if you turn the volume up and really push it, okay. But at normal room volume? No. But I wanted to try it myself. With my new YJCO D816, bought out of curiosity, I have 2 power supplies, both in GAN technology, that I can compare. One has 48 volts 5 Ampere, the other one 48 Volts 10 Ampere.
I assumed there wouldn’t be any difference on my speakers because they are partially active Martin Logan Ethos, so they have a built-in amplifier for the bass range. What can I say? Everyone is right. It’s exactly as everyone writes: stronger power supply, better sound. But why should that be the case when at room volume you rarely need more than 10 watts per speaker? I suspect you measure such an amplifier up to, let’s say, 10 watts and you wouldn’t see any difference in the measurement results.

The best thing is, anyone can just try it themselves.
Surely there are enough readers with with an amplifier with an external power supply.

 

[Purité Audio]

Those amp designers they know nothing.
Keith

 

[NTK]

Those amp designers they know nothing.
Keith

Especially when they can make more money selling 10 A power supplies instead of 5 A ones.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Why are you even here on ASR if you don’t trust science and measurements? Maybe you should think about joining all the subjective shill Youtubers like Cheapaudioman, Darko Audio or Old Guy Hifi. It’s a pretty tough competition though.

I look at both sides, that's obvious. When I write that I trust my ears MORE than the measurements, that doesn't mean I don't trust the measurements. But when in doubt, my ears decide.
In Germany, there's a saying: "Der Kluge lernt aus allem und von jedem".
(The smart person learns from everything and from everyone)

 

[Buckeye Amps]

The best thing is, anyone can just try it themselves.
Surely there are enough readers with with an amplifier with an external power supply.

You continue to ignore everything being told to you about sighted bias, limits of acoustic memory, why a double blind is needed, etc.

sigh

 

[Buckeye Amps]

(The smart person learns from everything and from everyone)

And yet, you refuse to be open to learning from some very knowledgeable people on here.
Ironic.