NEW GaN Amplifier : Dual ACM8816 GaN amplifier chips + AK4118AEQ [YJCO D816]

[Buckeye Amps]

Why don't you write: Why are you so attached to the 'old' analog technology?

Not attached at all. Just being objective, which is the science part of this site. All you've been posting is subjective takes and ignoring valuable responses by others on here that might make you change your mind if you were actually being open minded.

 

[Svend P]

And they even sound better—that's at least what I hear. Honestly.

In my experience new members on ASR fall into two categories:

Those that get their mind blown by the new perspective the site provides, proving to them everything they have been led to believe was just marketing BS. They become eager to learn more and read the threads suggested by members here.
And then there are those who only come to get their biases confirmed with no intent to learn or have their mind changed. They never read anything on the site and leave in silence after a week or two because the cognitive dissonance becomes to great. You clearly fall into the latter category.

This first post is for you. There is a reason it has 423 likes.

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Michael Kohler]

In my experience new members on ASR fall into two categories:

Those that get their mind blown by the new perspective the site provides, proving to them everything they have been led to believe was just marketing BS. They become eager to learn more and read the threads suggested by members here.
And then there are those who only come to get their biases confirmed with no intent to learn or have their mind changed. They never read anything on the site and leave in silence after a week or two because the cognitive dissonance becomes to great. You clearly fall into the latter category.

This first post is for you. There is a reason it has 423 likes.

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Do you still remember? How you wrote that you had owned a Lyngdorf TDAI 2200 for 15 (!) years? And before that, you had a TacT 2150. Those are really expensive image HiFi devices, right? How did that even happen? Was it cognitive dissonance? I've asked you before. So I think I'm asking you for the third time. What was it like? What went wrong for you back then?

 

[Svend P]

Do you still remember? How you wrote that you had owned a Lyngdorf TDAI 2200 for 15 (!) years? And before that, you had a TacT 2150. Those are really expensive image HiFi devices, right? How did that even happen? Was it cognitive dissonance? I've asked you before. So I think I'm asking you for the third time. What was it like? What went wrong for you back then?

My personal experience is not interesting. I bought them before I knew of ASR. Now I am wiser.

 

[Human Bass]

The benefit is staying cool without heat sinks and fans. A GaN CPU would transform computers.

GaN has a defect rate much higher than silicon, not viable for ultra small transistor for now

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

And they even sound better—that's at least what I hear. Honestly.

There's no doubt that you honestly hear that. The problem is what you are hearing is not caused by an actual audible difference between your "full digital" amp and any other amp.
Do a properly set up ABX test and tell us (honestly) if you still hear any difference

 

[AcousticTheory]

Mr. Kohler is fully committed, which is an unfortunate place to be in argumentation because it's like being mired in an unwinnable war that will drain his resources along with everyone else's without producing any new learning. His chief objection, after receiving the best possible explanation (e.g. that uncompressed PCM digital audio over I2S is not the same as PWM, so not all 'digital' is the same kind of 'digital') is that he himself doesn't understand what is being explained to him, which is somehow the fault of the people doing the explaining for not being also able to 'understand' it for him. Further explanations aren't going to help. The most he can do to save face, since this is now a face-saving exercise, is pull the 'eject' cord and maybe come back later under a different user account. Dumping a bunch of additional sound and fury into trying to save his original argument will not salvage his reputation and I would advise against it.

This thread is now derailing into the same thesis that underpins the entire site, that sufficiently well-measuring audio devices produce an audibly indistinguishable output signal when fed the same input signal, so the exchange has devolved into the same people repeating themselves. Perhaps if there is anything more to be discussed of the original topic, then the thread could be brought back, but for now it mostly seems to be over, for the purpose of evaluating the 'direct digital' process on its merits vs analog-input modulators.

I have a few questions of my own about such a GaN-based amplifier chip. I was told once that part of the difficulty in making a single-chip, high-power DSP/amplifier is the difference in manufacturing processes and the expense of packaging multiple dies of different manufacturing processes if each were to be used in the same device. So I wonder, is the entire signal path and logic of this amp IC made on one die using GaN, or are they packaging multiple dies into a single black square with some other MOS process on silicon for one part, and GaN substrate for the other? (Maybe there is some indication given, or maybe not.) I hope we will begin to see more mainstream development of Class-D amplifier ICs on GaN in order to reap its benefits in switching transistors which seem to be shorter dead time and lower on resistance.

 

[Michael Kohler]

Es besteht kein Zweifel, dass Sie das ehrlich hören. Das Problem ist, dass das, was du hörst, nicht durch einen tatsächlich hörbaren Unterschied zwischen deinem "voll digitalen" Verstärker und einem anderen Verstärker verursacht wird.
Mach einen richtig eingestellten ABX-Test und sag uns (ehrlich), ob du noch einen Unterschied hörst

Actually a good idea. But in reality, it's almost impossible to do a true blind comparison between amplifiers. If you're alone, it just doesn't work. You need a second person.
I think, though, that's not really a problem in practice. If you have 2 amplifiers at home and listen to them over weeks, switching between one and the other, then after at most a week you can say that one sounds clearer or more precise or more powerful or whatever.
In a blind comparison that only lasts a few minutes, that might not be reliably possible. I can totally imagine that.
When I make statements like "a full digital amp sounds clearer, more precise, and more neutral than an analog amplifier," it's because I've listened to such amplifiers over a long time, alternating with comparable analog ones. Often over months.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Actually a good idea. But in reality, it's almost impossible to do a true blind comparison between amplifiers. If you're alone, it just doesn't work. You need a second person.
I think, though, that's not really a problem in practice. If you have 2 amplifiers at home and listen to them over weeks, switching between one and the other, then after at most a week you can say that one sounds clearer or more precise or more powerful or whatever.
In a blind comparison that only lasts a few minutes, that might not be reliably possible. I can totally imagine that.
When I make statements like "a full digital amp sounds clearer, more precise, and more neutral than an analog amplifier," it's because I've listened to such amplifiers over a long time, alternating with comparable analog ones. Often over months.

That's not how auditory memory works, though.
And it also doesn't remove sighted bias.

Which is why the only objective way to compare two amplifiers is a true double blind test.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

For those interested in the proper way to carry out an audio comparison (and why):

Audio Blind Testing

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Actually a good idea. But in reality, it's almost impossible to do a true blind comparison between amplifiers. If you're alone, it just doesn't work. You need a second person.
I think, though, that's not really a problem in practice. If you have 2 amplifiers at home and listen to them over weeks, switching between one and the other, then after at most a week you can say that one sounds clearer or more precise or more powerful or whatever.
In a blind comparison that only lasts a few minutes, that might not be reliably possible. I can totally imagine that.
When I make statements like "a full digital amp sounds clearer, more precise, and more neutral than an analog amplifier," it's because I've listened to such amplifiers over a long time, alternating with comparable analog ones. Often over months.

What the “need a long listening time” people forget is that your auditory memory is short and you’re actually making it harder for yourself. Instant switching is there to help you it’s not there to fool you.

But you could still make your test blind. If you precisely level matched the amps at the start and then somehow arranged it so that you didn’t know which amp was playing for each week, that would probably be a good start.

 

[Michael Kohler]

This 'argument' here will resolve itself on its own. In Germany, they say, "viel Feind, viel Ehr" that means, many enemies, much honor.'
The reality and the near future will show that I am right. I claim that in the coming years, what started in recent years and has long been overdue will continue to happen, namely that manufacturers will focus more on full digital amps.
And if only for the reason that you simply don't need DACs anymore. From this perspective, it’s not important whether I am right or wrong when I say a full digital amplifier sounds clearer than an analog one.
A few examples. The following devices are equipped with full digital amplifiers:

JBL 705P Studio Monitor
Neumann KH 120 MK2 Studio Monitor
Buchardt Audio A10 High End Active Loudspeaker
Onkyo y40 and y50 Amplifiers
YJCO D816 Amplifier
JBL 4305P Active Loudspeaker
Technics SU G 700 MK2 Amplifier

 

[Buckeye Amps]

The reality and the near future will show that I am right.

So you admit you're not actually here for an honest, open, good faith discussion regarding the science behind sound?

Got it

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

From this perspective, it’s not important whether I am right or wrong when I say a full digital amplifier sounds clearer than an analog one.

If “full digital” amps become commonplace that will be evidence of better marketing, lower costs etc. It will absolutely *not* be proof that they sound better.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

If “full digital” amps become commonplace that will be evidence of better marketing, lower costs etc. It will absolutely *not* be proof that they sound better.

To be fair, he did put in an off ramp to save face by claiming they would become popular if for no other reason than they eliminate the need for a DAC.

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[JustJones]

The following devices are equipped with full digital amplifiers:

JBL 705P Studio Monitor
Neumann KH 120 MK2 Studio Monitor
Buchardt Audio A10 High End Active Loudspeaker
Onkyo y40 and y50 Amplifiers
YJCO D816 Amplifier
JBL 4305P Active Loudspeaker
Technics SU G 700 MK2 Amplifier

I have the JBL 4329p the bigger brother of the 4305p and it has a DAC as does the 4305p per JBL's spec sheet but what do they know.

 

[Michael Kohler]

I have the JBL 4329p the bigger brother of the 4305p and it has a DAC as does the 4305p per JBL's spec sheet but what do they know.

Actually, you're right. I was misled by this article, which says that your JBL and the 4305 have an axign Digital 5689 control installed:

https://audioxpress.com/news/axign-...-stages-for-class-d-audio-amplifier-solutions

I thought the Axign controller only works with full digital amplifiers. But apparently also with analog class D amps?
So that means this also applies to the JBL 705P. It also comes with classic Class D analog amplifiers and it also has a DAC.

 

[Michael Kohler]

I have the JBL 4329p the bigger brother of the 4305p and it has a DAC as does the 4305p per JBL's spec sheet but what do they know.

Am I right in the end after all? Take a look. It does look like your speakers are equipped with full digital amplifiers:

These JBLs employ digital amplifiers that use AX5689 "digital audio converter and amplifier controller" chips from the Dutch company Axign (footnote 2). The analog line inputs undergo A/D conversion soon after entering the chassis, to minimize signal degradation. The crossover is digital; this and all other digital signal processing takes place in the Axign processor, including D/A conversion: As Garrett stated, "there is no DAC chip."

it is out of this article:

JBL 4329P active loudspeaker | Stereophile.com

Hi-fi is at a crossroads. One road takes us toward modernized versions of the gear we grew up with, stuff that has been around since the 1950s. The other road faces the future. While sometimes accommodating physical media, including vinyl records, that's not where that road leads. On that road...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Michael Kohler]

So you admit you're not actually here for an honest, open, good faith discussion regarding the science behind sound?

Got it

I'm here because I believe that full digital amplification is both better and cheaper than analog Class D technology. I honestly think you can hear a quality difference. The difference in sound compared to very good Class D amplifiers is very small, yes, but it's there and noticeable.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

I'm here because I believe that full digital amplification is both better and cheaper than analog Class D technology. I honestly think you can hear a quality difference. The difference in sound compared to very good Class D amplifiers is very small, yes, but it's there and noticeable.

But we don't deal in beliefs around here.