New Emotiva XMC-2+ and RMC-1+: What is the difference, and what do you think?

[telecesne]

So I take it that the LCR Soundbar is "active", ie self amplified? What model is it?

My advice is to get something that has a decent DSP setup. Dirac, Audissey, Fisher-Price, something.

It is a passive soundbar - RBH 6600-SW/R

6600-SW/R

2-way 3-channel speaker-bar (non-powered) • 3-channel or wide dispersion center channel configuration options • Features 6x 6.5" Reference Aluminum Cone woofers; 3x Reference AMT tweeters (PRICE PER SINGLE) • Comes in sizes 66inch or 75inch or specify custom length (66-96")

www.rbhsound.com

I heard about RBH while I was doing research - I just moved to Utah, and RBH just so happens to be a local manufacture in Utah 2 miles from my house.
So, I drove over, took the wife, we listened, we smiled, and then we knew for our particular room, the soundbar was going to work for us.

I do have an exit strategy in case the soundbar does not work. The soundbar can be configured as a center channel (all posts tied together) and we will purchase separate L/R speakers and 'jimmy rig' the speakers next to the TV. It would be an odd look, and that is why we did not go that route from the beginning.
But I had to promise the wife to give it a shot first before we bought additional speakers.

I have to admit, after listening to the soundbar in the RBH sound room, I am confident it will meet our needs.
That thing can pump out sound - clean sound.

 

[ryanosaur]

Can the AV20 process Auro3D?

LMGTFY:

Printed on the chassis... so I would say "yes."

 

[NicS]

It is a passive soundbar - RBH 6600-SW/R

6600-SW/R

2-way 3-channel speaker-bar (non-powered) • 3-channel or wide dispersion center channel configuration options • Features 6x 6.5" Reference Aluminum Cone woofers; 3x Reference AMT tweeters (PRICE PER SINGLE) • Comes in sizes 66inch or 75inch or specify custom length (66-96")

www.rbhsound.com

I heard about RBH while I was doing research - I just moved to Utah, and RBH just so happens to be a local manufacture in Utah 2 miles from my house.
So, I drove over, took the wife, we listened, we smiled, and then we knew for our particular room, the soundbar was going to work for us.

I do have an exit strategy in case the soundbar does not work. The soundbar can be configured as a center channel (all posts tied together) and we will purchase separate L/R speakers and 'jimmy rig' the speakers next to the TV. It would be an odd look, and that is why we did not go that route from the beginning.
But I had to promise the wife to give it a shot first before we bought additional speakers.

I think this a fabulous idea.

Get the Marantz Cinema 40. Look for a used one. It's been around for a little while.

 

[telecesne]

I think this a fabulous idea.

Get the Marantz Cinema 40. Look for a used one. It's been around for a little while.

Why thank you - you just made my decision even harder.

Marantz Cinema 40 supports 5.2.6 AND there is a recertified one on the Marantz website for $1000 off.

I am supposed to be narrowing down my decision, not expanding my options.

 

[NicS]

I think the Marantz 40 will get you where you need to be for now, without getting into outboard amplification. I think that's a great start. You'll be up and running in no time. Then, as you add standalone amps as and when you think you need them. You can experimenting with speaker placement and DSP in the meantime.

My LCR setup came out of a mastering suite at Abbey road. Three very detailed, huge, professional midfield monitors that require a two man lift to shift around. I understand the obsessional end of the spectrum. I started with some bookshelf speakers and traded up, bit by bit. My surrounds are a pair of ESS AMT-1D speakers I've had for over 40 years, rebuilt twice and shipped to three continents. I love those things and they work well with the rest of the gear I have which is nearly all used and rebuilt, apart from my extremely buggy AVP.

In your case the Marantz C40 will get you watching movies in a few days. I think that's a great start.

 

[MKR]

LMGTFY:
View attachment 467756

Printed on the chassis... so I would say "yes."

Excellent, thanks! AV20 is certainly on my short list for my new theater setup. If you have any dealers in mind to get that great discount please send me DM

 

[telecesne]

Excellent, thanks! AV20 is certainly on my short list for my new theater setup. If you have any dealers in mind to get that great discount please send me DM

Sign me up for some discount love also

 

[Huskerbryce]

I was in Raleigh Sunday at the audio advice live show. Had a chance to hear a ton of gear. Trinnov altitude, marantz av10/20, anthem AVM90, mcintosh MX180 and others. I own the Emo RMC-1+. I will start with all of the units sound good. There was really no huge difference from an audio perspective. The Trinnov units take an incredibly long time to make any hdmi audio/video switching. Its a very awkward 10 seconds or more. That alone makes it a no go for me. The Anthem unit was better but had a significant lag time as well. Marantz did a solid job of switching within a few seconds. My RMC-1+ takes about 2 seconds. The MX-180 was fast as well. They all sounded very good but without doing a/b comparison it would be a challenge to pick a “best sounding” unit. I can say the best sounding room was the mcintosh gear on sonos faber speakers. The Anthem AVM90 sounded a little flat in the bass. Marantz seemed slightly bright in the highs but they all were using room correction so could have been that. The trinnov, anthem and marantz were all demoed in a atmos configuration with 9-11 channels depending on the room. Only my opinion but Atmos is a gimmick. You need a massive room and a massive wallet. The mcintosh room was sonos faber speakers on a 5.4 setup using an MX180 with 3 MC1.25kw amps f/c/r and 2 MC611 amps for the rears. No atmos needed. Fantastic sounding. I heard the top gun maverick bombing run scene on multiple room setups and hands down the 5.4 mcintosh room was the best I heard it. After walking away from the show I am very very happy with my expenditure for the emo RMC-1+. The Marantz or the Mcintosh would be great as well. Anthem I would need to hear again with different bass tracks and the trinnov would be a no go.

 

[telecesne]

I was in Raleigh Sunday at the audio advice live show. Had a chance to hear a ton of gear. Trinnov altitude, marantz av10/20, anthem AVM90, mcintosh MX180 and others. I own the Emo RMC-1+. I will start with all of the units sound good. There was really no huge difference from an audio perspective. The Trinnov units take an incredibly long time to make any hdmi audio/video switching. Its a very awkward 10 seconds or more. That alone makes it a no go for me. The Anthem unit was better but had a significant lag time as well. Marantz did a solid job of switching within a few seconds. My RMC-1+ takes about 2 seconds. The MX-180 was fast as well. They all sounded very good but without doing a/b comparison it would be a challenge to pick a “best sounding” unit. I can say the best sounding room was the mcintosh gear on sonos faber speakers. The Anthem AVM90 sounded a little flat in the bass. Marantz seemed slightly bright in the highs but they all were using room correction so could have been that. The trinnov, anthem and marantz were all demoed in a atmos configuration with 9-11 channels depending on the room. Only my opinion but Atmos is a gimmick. You need a massive room and a massive wallet. The mcintosh room was sonos faber speakers on a 5.4 setup using an MX180 with 3 MC1.25kw amps f/c/r and 2 MC611 amps for the rears. No atmos needed. Fantastic sounding. I heard the top gun maverick bombing run scene on multiple room setups and hands down the 5.4 mcintosh room was the best I heard it. After walking away from the show I am very very happy with my expenditure for the emo RMC-1+. The Marantz or the Mcintosh would be great as well. Anthem I would need to hear again with different bass tracks and the trinnov would be a no go.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I was concerned about each manufacturers ability to reduce lag time. It seems like older models have more lag time whereas the newer models have improved it.
That is what I would expect - better Software, better architecture, better hardware, better operating performance.

Emotiva has made it a point to highlight how much they have reduced the lag time.
I do like their price to performance/feature cost ratio.

 

[NicS]

I was in Raleigh Sunday at the audio advice live show. Had a chance to hear a ton of gear. Trinnov altitude, marantz av10/20, anthem AVM90, mcintosh MX180 and others. I own the Emo RMC-1+. I will start with all of the units sound good. There was really no huge difference from an audio perspective. The Trinnov units take an incredibly long time to make any hdmi audio/video switching. Its a very awkward 10 seconds or more. That alone makes it a no go for me. The Anthem unit was better but had a significant lag time as well. Marantz did a solid job of switching within a few seconds. My RMC-1+ takes about 2 seconds. The MX-180 was fast as well. They all sounded very good but without doing a/b comparison it would be a challenge to pick a “best sounding” unit. I can say the best sounding room was the mcintosh gear on sonos faber speakers. The Anthem AVM90 sounded a little flat in the bass. Marantz seemed slightly bright in the highs but they all were using room correction so could have been that. The trinnov, anthem and marantz were all demoed in a atmos configuration with 9-11 channels depending on the room. Only my opinion but Atmos is a gimmick. You need a massive room and a massive wallet. The mcintosh room was sonos faber speakers on a 5.4 setup using an MX180 with 3 MC1.25kw amps f/c/r and 2 MC611 amps for the rears. No atmos needed. Fantastic sounding. I heard the top gun maverick bombing run scene on multiple room setups and hands down the 5.4 mcintosh room was the best I heard it. After walking away from the show I am very very happy with my expenditure for the emo RMC-1+. The Marantz or the Mcintosh would be great as well. Anthem I would need to hear again with different bass tracks and the trinnov would be a no go.

Great perspective. I heard the the Trinnov is slow. You are right. That's too slow.

As for Atmos, I can't agree with everything you say. Let's start with what I agree with though. Yes. It's expensive. I have 4 heights with a desire for two more. That would bring me to a 5.3.6 system and cold stares from my good wife.

Now for the disagreement. I've really got into Atmos music. To some it is sacrilege for great albums to be remixed in Atmos. You'll never hear a Radiohead album in multichannel for example. But listening to Abbey Road, or Three Feet High & Rising, or anything my Max Cooper in Atmos TrueHD audio from BluRay is really amazing for me. It's like listening to this music again for the first time. I love it for movies, but for music, it makes me listen in the same emotional way I did in my 20's.

So I'd keep Atmos on the table until you dismiss its it from personal experience. Then it's simply down to taste.

 

[telecesne]

Great perspective. I heard the the Trinnov is slow. You are right. That's too slow.

As for Atmos, I can't agree with everything you say. Let's start with what I agree with though. Yes. It's expensive. I have 4 heights with a desire for two more. That would bring me to a 5.3.6 system and cold stares from my good wife.

Now for the disagreement. I've really got into Atmos music. To some it is sacrilege for great albums to be remixed in Atmos. You'll never hear a Radiohead album in multichannel for example. But listening to Abbey Road, or Three Feet High & Rising, or anything my Max Cooper in Atmos TrueHD audio from BluRay is really amazing for me. It's like listening to this music again for the first time. I love it for movies, but for music, it makes me listen in the same emotional way I did in my 20's.

So I'd keep Atmos on the table until you dismiss its it from personal experience. Then it's simply down to taste.

Alternatively, I have a 5.2.6 setup and to be honest, it is not the Atmos function that I care about. Most AV processors/receivers allow you to go to All Stereo Mode - which means all speakers become a L/R speaker.

I love the room filling sound when all speakers are playing my high tempo/high beats per minute bass pounding making me shake my butt music.
Gotta have something motivating me when I am doing all my honey do projects.

 

[MKR]

I was in Raleigh Sunday at the audio advice live show. Had a chance to hear a ton of gear. Trinnov altitude, marantz av10/20, anthem AVM90, mcintosh MX180 and others. I own the Emo RMC-1+. I will start with all of the units sound good. There was really no huge difference from an audio perspective. The Trinnov units take an incredibly long time to make any hdmi audio/video switching. It’s a very awkward 10 seconds or more. That alone makes it a no go for me. The Anthem unit was better but had a significant lag time as well. Marantz did a solid job of switching within a few seconds. My RMC-1+ takes about 2 seconds. The MX-180 was fast as well. They all sounded very good but without doing a/b comparison it would be a challenge to pick a “best sounding” unit. I can say the best sounding room was the mcintosh gear on sonos faber speakers. The Anthem AVM90 sounded a little flat in the bass. Marantz seemed slightly bright in the highs but they all were using room correction so could have been that. The trinnov, anthem and marantz were all demoed in a atmos configuration with 9-11 channels depending on the room. Only my opinion but Atmos is a gimmick. You need a massive room and a massive wallet. The mcintosh room was sonos faber speakers on a 5.4 setup using an MX180 with 3 MC1.25kw amps f/c/r and 2 MC611 amps for the rears. No atmos needed. Fantastic sounding. I heard the top gun maverick bombing run scene on multiple room setups and hands down the 5.4 mcintosh room was the best I heard it. After walking away from the show I am very very happy with my expenditure for the emo RMC-1+. The Marantz or the Mcintosh would be great as well. Anthem I would need to hear again with different bass tracks and the trinnov would be a no go.

Thanks for your report! Outside of the switching and other operational differences you noticed, not sure how you can come to any objective conclusions on the audio fidelity (that are actually related to the AVPs themselves). Far too subjective and too many variables, not exactly a controlled experiment. But again, appreciate your observations regardless.

Sure would love to see Amir’s measurements of the upgraded Emotiva! That one definitely has my interest.

 

[NicS]

ME TOO!!

The Emotiva Forum is full of anti-ASR rhetoric. Quite a bit of FanBoi defensiveness about objective measurements not having any bearing on sound quality. I beg to differ. I like to know that my confirmation bias is justified or not. Come on Amir!! Put us out of our misery...!!!

 

[Huskerbryce]

Thanks for your report! Outside of the switching and other operational differences you noticed, not sure how you can come to any objective conclusions on the audio fidelity (that are actually related to the AVPs themselves). Far too subjective and too many variables, not exactly a controlled experiment. But again, appreciate your observations regardless.

Sure would love to see Amir’s measurements of the upgraded Emotiva! That one definitely has my interest.

Yeah, I didnt hear any real notable difference in sound from the processors. I was only commenting on what I heard in each individual system. I would be happy to own any of the units from a sonic perspective. The Anthem I would need to hear again in a situation where I can demo subs with it. That particular room/system sounded a bit thin/flat in the bass region but by no means do I firmly blame the processor. Could be the subs or the room or any combo of it.

 

[telecesne]

ME TOO!!

The Emotiva Forum is full of anti-ASR rhetoric. Quite a bit of FanBoi defensiveness about objective measurements not having any bearing on sound quality. I beg to differ. I like to know that my confirmation bias is justified or not. Come on Amir!! Put us out of our misery...!!!

Got my vote - @amirm to do measurement checks.

In no way do I expect Amir to do it, or take for granted all the energy and effort he has done to support this forum.
I want to make sure we show respect for his time and we are sensitive to his time commitments and understand his life does not revolve around our needs.

But - if he is willing - inquiring minds would love to see the data.

I find it interesting when people poo pooh objective measurements. I agree that measurements alone do not ensure the sound is great for YOUR environment. But objective measurements at least tell me if a component measures bad, the probability of it sounding good in your environment is close to 0.
If something measures bad, it ain't gonna sound good.
If something measures good, there is no guarantee that it will sound good in your environment, but at least you have a chance of doing things to improve the performance in your environment.

 

[NicS]

Got my vote - @amirm to do measurement checks.

In no way do I expect Amir to do it, or take for granted all the energy and effort he has done to support this forum.
I want to make sure we show respect for his time and we are sensitive to his time commitments and understand his life does not revolve around our needs.

But - if he is willing - inquiring minds would love to see the data.

I find it interesting when people poo pooh objective measurements. I agree that measurements alone do not ensure the sound is great for YOUR environment. But objective measurements at least tell me if a component measures bad, the probability of it sounding good in your environment is close to 0.
If something measures bad, it ain't gonna sound good.
If something measures good, there is no guarantee that it will sound good in your environment, but at least you have a chance of doing things to improve the performance in your environment.

100% in agreement with everything you said here...

 

[Fredygump]

I was all set to buy the XMC-2+ but had one question. The back of the unit shows Heights 1 and 2, but no Height 3 unless you configure Sub 2 and 3 as height and operate with single sub. I contacted Emotiva and they verified the unit is not configurable for a 5.2.6.
It is configurable for 5.2.4 OR 5.1.6 - arrgghhhh

I would recommend their products if it meets your particular Use Case, but in this instance, it did not meet my requirements for a 5.2.6.
On the other hand, you can split the single sub into a Y connector, you would only have single sub control - not sure if that matters in my environment.
However, Anthem AVM-70 is on sale and Marantz 8805A is on clearance, they both can be configured to my setup.

So now I struggle with the decision of what to do - from a pricing standpoint, they are all in the same ballpark, only difference is the Emotiva is less then a year old and Marantz is 6+ years old and the Anthem is 4+ years old.

I am suspecting a refresh from Marantz and Anthem (nothing official to go by - just looking at the age of the products).
Decisions, decisions...

I don't care how many subwoofer outs a processor has. Having multiple subwoofer outputs means that Dirac "can" optimize your subs for smoother response. But what does Dirac actually do to optimize subwoofers? Someone is more up to date should say, but I am expecting that it does not do the level of optimization that the DIY community has figured out.

So I don't care how many subwoofer outputs there are, because I am optimizing my own subs! For the best possible subwoofer integration, use 1 subwoofer output and connect it to a MiniDSP processor. Then connect your subs to the MiniDSP. Proceed to optimize the subs using REW measurements and maybe the Multi-Subwoofer-Optimization app (MSO).

If you are using a single subwoofer output, Dirac is forced to treat the entire group of subwoofers as a single sub. So it can't mess up your settings.

But again, that's just what I would do.

 

[telecesne]

Since this is a thread about XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ - I've got a question specific to the speaker configuration limitation of these products.
As mentioned in an earlier post, the XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ cannot be configured for a 5.2.6 configuration.

The options are 5.1.6 and if you want to have a second sub, you would need a Y splitter for single sub out.

How significant is it to be able to have room correction for 2 subs versus only having 1 sub.
Is room correction on subs REALLY that valuable?

My motto - mo bass, mo better!! My wife and I are bass heads (not the drug bass head, but the sound bass head - you know some of you was going to twist that around).

 

[telecesne]

I don't care how many subwoofer outs a processor has. Having multiple subwoofer outputs means that Dirac "can" optimize your subs for smoother response. But what does Dirac actually do to optimize subwoofers? Someone is more up to date should say, but I am expecting that it does not do the level of optimization that the DIY community has figured out.

So I don't care how many subwoofer outputs there are, because I am optimizing my own subs! For the best possible subwoofer integration, use 1 subwoofer output and connect it to a MiniDSP processor. Then connect your subs to the MiniDSP. Proceed to optimize the subs using REW measurements and maybe the Multi-Subwoofer-Optimization app (MSO).

If you are using a single subwoofer output, Dirac is forced to treat the entire group of subwoofers as a single sub. So it can't mess up your settings.

But again, that's just what I would do.

Ahh, thanks.

As part of my purchase with my 2 Subwoofers, I bought an amplifier that has DSP.
So, if I am interpreting your comments correctly, having a Y splitter from my sub out that goes into my Amplifier with mini-DSP should give me flexibility in optimizing my subs for my room. Did I get that correct?

 

[NicS]

Since this is a thread about XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ - I've got a question specific to the speaker configuration limitation of these products.
As mentioned in an earlier post, the XMC-2+ and RMC-1+ cannot be configured for a 5.2.6 configuration.

The options are 5.1.6 and if you want to have a second sub, you would need a Y splitter for single sub out.

How significant is it to be able to have room correction for 2 subs versus only having 1 sub.
Is room correction on subs REALLY that valuable?

My motto - mo bass, mo better!! My wife and I are bass heads (not the drug bass head, but the sound bass head - you know some of you was going to twist that around).

Combo answer to you and Fredygump.....

I use two subs to fill out my main speakers. I've measured them and they roll off at 50hz. I use two subs, one for each speaker to fill the 20-50hz gap. Then a third sub for LFE for 5.1/Atmos content. I set the two subs for my mains using the built in DSP for the SVS subs. Pretty much the same as you Fredy, though a slightly different method. I then let the rest of the DSP be handled by the RMCL-1.