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New Dynaudio LYD 48: Active 3-way DSP X-over

watchnerd

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#6
Thomann now has FR specs for these (even though the Dynaudio site doesn't yet):

[paste]
Dynaudio LYD-48 Black Right; Active 3-Way Near-/Midfield Monitor; 8" Woofer; 4" Midrange and 1" Tweeter; Tri-Amp Design Class D Amplifier thomann 50/50/80 Watts; Frequency Range: 40 Hz - 21 kHz; max. SPL: 114 dB (1m, Pair); input sensitivity switch -6/0/+6dB; Bass Extension Control (+10 Hz/+5 dB, 0, -10 Hz/-5 dB); Position Control: tunings Presets for better sound characteristics closed to a wall; Sound Balance Control: tilt-filter (dark, neutral, bright) thomann tunes the speaker by tilting the whole frequency spectrum; Connectors: XLR-input balanced, RCA-input unbalanced, Dimensions: 369 x 234 x 328 mm (WxHxD); Weight: 12 kg; Colour: black; Right Speaker
[end paste]

The peak SPL is the same as the JBL 708P.

Bass is a little hard to tell: the LYD 48 is listed as 40 Hz, but no dB listed by Thomann. JBL 708P is listed as 45 Hz at -1.5 dB as the "Frequency Response", but 35 Hz as the "Frequency Range." I can't tell what JBL means by one versus the other.

I'd probably call it a tie in the bass, and also a tie for SPL.

Interestingly, the LYD 48 is a bit smaller the 708P. And half the price. And a 3-way.

What you don't get with the LYD 48 is the built-in PEQ. But now that Roon has 16 band PEQ and a convolution engine, do I care?

Smart money may be to the get the LYD 48 (which still has DSP crossover, tilt control, bass extension control, and placement EQ), combine it with Roon for all the DSP the 708P does and more, and put the remaining money into subwoofers.
 

oivavoi

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#7
What are the crossover frequencies on the JBL 708P and the Lyd 48? I tend to believe that crossovers should either be as low as possible (at or below 1 khz) or as high as possible (above 5-6 khz), in order to avoid bad things happening in the range where our ears are most sensitive. Crossovers pose problems even for active speakers with fine-tuned digital crossovers. Earl Geddes never makes speakers with crossovers higher than 1 khz for example.
 
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Cosmik

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#8
What are the crossover frequencies on the JBL 708P and the Lyd 48? I tend to believe that crossovers should either be as low as possible (at or below 1 khz) or as high as possible (above 5-6 khz), in order to avoid bad things happening in the range where are ears are most sensitive. Crossovers pose problems even for active speakers with fine-tuned digital crossovers. Earl Geddes never makes speakers with crossovers higher than 1 khz for example.
In my experience a well tuned DSP crossover is transparent at whatever frequency you place it (I am aiming for linear phase, with time alignment).

One of the tricks I can demonstrate with some of my speakers is instantly switching between setups with widely-differing crossovers (frequencies and slopes) while playing music, and you simply cannot hear when the switch is made (standard sighted test caveat). In theory, it affects the dispersion and breakup of drivers etc. but in a three way these are not going to be as pronounced as a two way, and the result is a very large envelope of settings where no change is heard.
 

oivavoi

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#9
In my experience a well tuned DSP crossover is transparent at whatever frequency you place it (I am aiming for linear phase, with time alignment).

One of the tricks I can demonstrate with some of my speakers is instantly switching between setups with widely-differing crossovers (frequencies and slopes) while playing music, and you simply cannot hear when the switch is made (standard sighted test caveat). In theory, it affects the dispersion and breakup of drivers etc. but in a three way these are not going to be as pronounced as a two way, and the result is a very large envelope of settings where no change is heard.
Interesting. Is this the case only in the sweetspot, or over a wide listening area? My own speakers are supposed to be phase coherent in the crossover region (with a traditional analog active crossover though), so I perceive them as very coherent from a close distance and in the sweetspot. But they dont sound that coherent from farther away. I have assumed that this is because the woofer and the tweeter have different dispersion characteristics, so they behave different around the crossover region once you move out of the immediate nearfield. Maybe this is not as big a problem with a three-way though.
 

Cosmik

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#10
Interesting. Is this the case only in the sweetspot, or over a wide listening area? My own speakers are supposed to be phase coherent in the crossover region (with a traditional analog active crossover though), so I perceive them as very coherent from a close distance and in the sweetspot. But they dont sound that coherent from farther away. I have assumed that this is because the woofer and the tweeter have different dispersion characteristics, so they behave different around the crossover region once you move out of the immediate nearfield. Maybe this is not as big a problem with a three-way though.
I shall have to try it in different places in the room. Certainly at the sweet spot (quite a long way from the speakers) I can go from crossovers at 200 & 2kHz 3rd order, say, to 500 & 3.5kHz 8th order and any combinations in between, and you can't tell. In my setup, the crossovers are a generic 'smooth' filter profile with any frequency and slope you like, and these are calculated when you switch between profiles (with a mouse click). Driver correction based on measurements is overlaid on top of the basic crossovers, and there is a separate fixed delay for each driver. In theory, all settings are 'valid', but you'd probably want to avoid ultra-sharp or ultra-shallow slopes or crossover frequencies that are 'silly'. I would expect a two way to be less tolerant of settings (unless it's done with horns and waveguides perhaps?).
 

watchnerd

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#11
What are the crossover frequencies on the JBL 708P and the Lyd 48? I tend to believe that crossovers should either be as low as possible (at or below 1 khz) or as high as possible (above 5-6 khz), in order to avoid bad things happening in the range where our ears are most sensitive. Crossovers pose problems even for active speakers with fine-tuned digital crossovers. Earl Geddes never makes speakers with crossovers higher than 1 khz for example.
705P = 1900 khz
708P = 1700 khz (which is right at the edge of the beaming frequency)
LYD 48 not published yet, but it's a 3-way
 

Old Listener

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#12
Thanks, watchnerd. I was aware of the LYD 5,7 and 8. This new one looks interesting too.

The KEF LS-50 wireless is about $ 2200 / pair I think. Different set of bells and whistles.

Until the 705P/708P arrived, the Dynaudio LYD 7 and the Geneles M040 had been at the top of my list.

I don't take manufacturers' pro forma frequency response specs as gospel.
 

watchnerd

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#13
The KEF LS-50 wireless is about $ 2200 / pair I think. Different set of bells and whistles.
I think the KEF LS-50 is a very bold product that will sell well.

However, I also think it's an "audiophile lifestyle product" (I would put the Dynaudio Focus XD in the same bucket), geared towards a box-less all-in-one experience.

For me, I don't prefer that architecture for a few reasons:

1. Software hard-coupled to the speaker. I prefer a "best of breed" approach. I don't expect speaker makers to be on the cutting edge of digital playback software. It's not their core competency. Upgrades are a concern.

2. I have analog sources (turntable). I don't mind the AD conversion, but I would prefer XLR input.

That being said, I've heard both the KEF LS-50 Wireless and the Dynaudio Focus XD series and they both sound good. I would definitely recommend them to those who prioritize 'all in one' higher than I do.
 

SPFC

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#14
Watchnerd, thanks for posting this thread.

These Dynaudios sound very interesting. Hopefully someone will have a chance to listen to them soon and post impressions. I do wonder what having the woofer on the side of the tweeter and midrange driver does for horizontal dispersion.
 

Nightlord

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#15
In case they aren't saying it in the marketing; "Lyd" is Danish for "sound". ("Ljud" in Swedish... and tracking it back in time you find the coupling to English "Loud" and German "Laut")
 

watchnerd

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#18
What are the crossover frequencies on the JBL 708P and the Lyd 48? I tend to believe that crossovers should either be as low as possible (at or below 1 khz) or as high as possible (above 5-6 khz), in order to avoid bad things happening in the range where our ears are most sensitive. Crossovers pose problems even for active speakers with fine-tuned digital crossovers. Earl Geddes never makes speakers with crossovers higher than 1 khz for example.
LYD 48 crossover is 490Hz/ 5600Hz
 

oivavoi

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#20
Just audutioned briefly the smaller sibling in the Dynaudio Lyd family, the Lyd 7. Was actually quite disappointed. Sounded somewhat tinny in the higher frequencies, and a bit compressed all over. Compared it A/B to Eve SC 207. The Eve were in a completely different ballpark, IMO.

But this was a brief audition. So my impressions might be off. If not, it might be about the ribbon tweeters in the Eve, and the somewhat bigger enclosure.
 
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